No Schild Left Behind - Updated 2/18/2007

[schild]

Trippy, if you don't mind, take a gander at this, one of the guys on neoGAF used it: sweetspot.

[Trippy]

I haven't heard of that card but that is the sort of thing you would need if you wanted to capture a component source.

[Cheddar]

Crazy geek talk in IRC.  See what you miss when you do not bother with it?

[Morfiend]

I'm not entirely sure a soundcard is necessary at all. Is onboad sound all that bad? Is there any advantage to a soundcard? I've had the same Soundblaster since before 2000, still chugs. I only use 3 speakers and 99% of the time I use headphones.

Like I already said, you should be fine with onboard sound. And yeah, sound cards are cheap, but for headphones or only a few speakers, why spend the extra $100 when you could add that to other parts.

Get a cheaper case, and no soundcard, and you could put that extra money to a really good graphics card. Just downgrading on those two could save you up to $300, thats a graphics card in and of its self. If you keep picking components like this, the system is ether going to have to cut corners some where important, or its going to be in the $3k range.

[Cheddar]

OK, part list is almost done for Schilds computer.  I will probably be ordering the case next week at some point: if anyone is going to donate a part please let me know ASAP so I do not order it also!  FYI, the links for the different products are just suggestions.  Feel free to order from whomever; as long as it is the specific part I am not too worried about where it comes from.

I do still need to list RAM, but that should be pretty easy to pick out.  I figure a 2 G stick or so should be enough.  I have not put my computer list together, but will probably pick up whatever shit is on special at a reputable site.  Really I just need something that will take 4 IDE drives, 4 SATA drives, and has a few PCI slots.  Does not need to be super duper in the processing department!  Lemme know if we made any mistakes on the parts, I have no done a close look and compare yet.  Damn being sick! (sleep work sleep work)

[Morfiend]

*Sigh*

Seriously, get a cheaper case and no sound card, and you can upgrade the graphics card to a Nvidia 8800gts or even gtx if you get a really cheap case.

Why would you spend so much on a case when it could go to some thing that will drastically improve performance?

[Miasma]

I should warn you of a terrible problem with that video card.  Since it is an open box you do not get the accessories.  That's right, the awesome OEM disk of The DaVinci Code game is not included, I am sorry to have crushed your dreams of owning that masterpiece.

[Trippy]

OK, part list is almost done for Schilds computer.  I will probably be ordering the case next week at some point: if anyone is going to donate a part please let me know ASAP so I do not order it also!  FYI, the links for the different products are just suggestions.  Feel free to order from whomever; as long as it is the specific part I am not too worried about where it comes from.

I do still need to list RAM, but that should be pretty easy to pick out.  I figure a 2 G stick or so should be enough.  I have not put my computer list together, but will probably pick up whatever shit is on special at a reputable site.  Really I just need something that will take 4 IDE drives, 4 SATA drives, and has a few PCI slots.  Does not need to be super duper in the processing department!  Lemme know if we made any mistakes on the parts, I have no done a close look and compare yet.  Damn being sick! (sleep work sleep work)

We already picked out the memory -- schild should still have the info. If you are going for 2 GB of RAM *DO NOT* get a single 2 GB stick of memory since you'll be losing the dual channel memory capability which the Intel processors desparately need (unlike the A64).

[schild]

I think, given the small performance increase and huge cost increase, it may be better to go with a 1900XTX or even 1900XT. Bleeding edge at 10% increase is sorta meh.

But remember, I am not with the times.

[Trippy]

*Sigh*

Seriously, get a cheaper case and no sound card, and you can upgrade the graphics card to a Nvidia 8800gts or even gtx if you get a really cheap case.

schild wants an ATI card for some reason and switching to NVIDIA would mean switching motherboards if he wanted to be able to eventually use SLI.

Why would you spend so much on a case when it could go to some thing that will drastically improve performance?

Because schild wants that case.

[schild]

The case is my only REAL sticking point. Nearly everything else I'm extremely flexible on - mostly because I don't know better.

[Strazos]

Cheap cases are Cheap for a reason.

[schild]

It's funny, the Shuttle case was one of the best I ever had and it was eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexpensive back when I got it. And hard as hell to find. Had to go to a computer store run by Koreans who were obsessive about PC design.

[Trippy]

It's funny, the Shuttle case was one of the best I ever had and it was eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexpensive back when I got it. And hard as hell to find. Had to go to a computer store run by Koreans who were obsessive about PC design.

Shuttle "cases" are expensive cause they aren't just cases, they are actually barebones systems with a case, motherboard, power supply, CPU heatpipe cooler, special cables (with lots of stuff "prewired"), etc.

[schild]

From specialty retailers you can pick your mobo for your case and it's priced seperately. I think the case cost maybe $50 less than the one we're looking at now with... nothing. Wait, no, maybe the 250W power supply.

[Trippy]

Cheap cases are Cheap for a reason.

While I personally wouldn't want to get, say, a $20 case (ouch my fingers) there are plenty of very nice cases in the $60 range and even the P180 is only $130 which is half the price of that Zalman case. With the Zalman you are paying extra for the display and a few extra bits of functionality like the card reader but really you are paying a big premium because of the style.

And actually for Cheddar, you might want to consider something like this for a dedicated HTPC machine:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129131

It's limited to Micro-ATX motherboards but may be a better option if your PC is more for media center stuff rather than playing games on it.

[Strazos]

I have an earlier version of this, the only difference being that side vent AFAIK. It was also more expensive 4 years ago.

It was well worth the price.

[schild]

What we're gonna do now is stop talking about cases. :)

[Xuri]

So I take it you don't have hight thoughts about DX10 or the games that will supporting it in the near future?

[Sky]

DX10 is going to rock, but you have to install Vista to use it, and dx10 parts are at a big premium right now. Also, Vista.

[schild]

I have no clue when I'll be upgrading to vista, probably more than a year from now.

[Furiously]

I have an earlier version of this, the only difference being that side vent AFAIK. It was also more expensive 4 years ago.

It was well worth the price.

I have the same case, only with a side window so I can look at my expensive stuff. They really do make nice cases. I love the motherboard slide out.

I really would like to find some nice quiet fans though.

[Morfiend]

I think, given the small performance increase and huge cost increase, it may be better to go with a 1900XTX or even 1900XT. Bleeding edge at 10% increase is sorta meh.

But remember, I am not with the times.

You will see more than a small performance increase going with the 8800gtx. This thing is blazing fast, and also its directx 10 compatible. Also, with the 8800gtx there is no need to ever go SLi. Sli is NOT a good upgrade option. If you want better graphics in the future, you buy a new single card that can give more proformance for $ than adding another old card. The only time you should go SLi is if you have money to burn and want the OMG Super Fast NOW NOW NOW.

I think you are making a huge mistake by spending the money on the case and not the card. Also, like Trippy said, yeah a $20 case is crap, but you can get a very very nice case for around $100, hell, my case is on sale now for $70 some places. Thats a savings of almost $200.

Your spending a lot of money on this computer, but with the choices your making, your not going to get close to the performance:dollar ratio that you could. Why buy a $220 motherboard? If you dont plan on making it a blazing fast gaming rig, you dont need that motherboard, or that much ram, but your going to see maybe a 5% performance gain with the expensive board and ram, where you could see upward of 20% performance from getting the better card.

I dont get it.

[Morfiend]

One other thing. Why are you even putting IDE cables in your box? You should get a full SATA setup, its so much nicer.

[Trippy]

One other thing. Why are you even putting IDE cables in your box? You should get a full SATA setup, its so much nicer.

Most DVD drives are still IDE.

[Cheddar]

One other thing. Why are you even putting IDE cables in your box? You should get a full SATA setup, its so much nicer.

Link us some stuff, and we can look at various options. 

And what Trippy said. :)  Really, Schild needs 1 IDE cable, whereas I will need 2. 

[schild]

Most of the 8800s that aren't shit cost almost as much as a PS3. Yow.

[Sky]

Most of the 8800s that aren't shit cost almost as much as a PS3. Yow.

Yup. I'm going to bleed for my pc. But I couldn't get a decent vid card and a console, too. I'd want at least something in the $250-300 range, and a 360 is $400 plus extras plus $60 a goddamned game.

Don't think I didn't consider it quite intently!

For the schildputer, a 1950 will kick all kinds of ass. It's almost the cost of a 360 :P

[Morfiend]

Most of the 8800s that aren't shit cost almost as much as a PS3. Yow.

So? Your already spending the money. Hell, if you want to look at it that way, your empty case is as much as a Wii. What im talking about is getting the best performance for your dollar. Right now your making decisions that are leading to an expensive machine with out the extreme performance of an expensive machine. The main reason to build your own computer is to get a much better performance to dollar ratio than prebuilts give. Its looking like your system will end up costing about the same that mine did, but my system will probably have 15-30% better performance in gaming due to the great air flow of my case, and the superior graphics card. Hell, at this rate you could just buy a dell.

Chedder and Trippy

SAMSUNG 18X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 18X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache SATA DVD Burner With LightScribe Technology - OEM
This DVD drive is SATA, Lightscribe, and one of the fastest.

The only reason these days to use IDE is if you are using old parts or installing a floppy drive.

Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Graphics Card
Nvidia 8800gtx

I went with this motherboard, because it got great user reviews from many hardware sites, and I heard that it was very stable. Also, I dont plan to go SLi ever. I havent checked in to the now 680i in the last month, but they where having some amazing problems for a while. This Intel board does NOT support SLi.
Intel Badaxe2

Also, a quick shout out for my powersupply. This thing is awesome. Its modular, so you only need to install the cables you actually want to use. Also, its a beast. From what I have researched, the good name brand PSUs perform much much much better. I really like mine.
Corsair 620w


Enjoy.

[Furiously]

SAMSUNG 18X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 18X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache SATA DVD Burner With LightScribe Technology - OEM
This DVD drive is SATA, Lightscribe, and one of the fastest.

What a cool drive.

[Yegolev]

It irritates me to no end that I cannot find a modern mainboard that has more than one IDE controller.  It just means that I cannot put all of my existing devices on my new machine when I build it.  This is not so much a hard-disk problem, but I have two optical and one tape drive which are IDE.  It's also bothersome that I have never been able to get one of those PCI-IDE cards to work, so I don't have high hopes of working around the problem.  /sadf

[Trippy]

It irritates me to no end that I cannot find a modern mainboard that has more than one IDE controller.  It just means that I cannot put all of my existing devices on my new machine when I build it.  This is not so much a hard-disk problem, but I have two optical and one tape drive which are IDE.  It's also bothersome that I have never been able to get one of those PCI-IDE cards to work, so I don't have high hopes of working around the problem.  /sadf

Buy an external USB/Firewire enclosure and put the tape drive in there. What motherboard chipsets are you looking at?

[Yegolev]

Buy an external USB/Firewire enclosure and put the tape drive in there.

Good idea. I am just a few inches from buying maybe five of those from newegg and building out a few external units of various types.  Especially since my wife's very new MyBook has gone toes-up, much to everyone's dismay due to the stuff on there.  I'm also very close to buying SpinRite to see if I can recover anything from it.

Mainboards... well I had decided to end my long AMD streak and go with a Core2Duo, which means either Nvidia or Intel as far as I know.  I made a short list of likely parts about a month ago, and seems like I had settled on the Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6.  I recall that this mobo's peers all had a single IDE.  Currently, what is known as the X1 Project is on hold until I get the taxes done and Unclefucker Sam gives me back some of my money.

[Sky]

The mobo I'm putting in my new PC supports 2 IDE channels:

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131025

[Yegolev]

Is this a bad place to ask if someone can quickly sumamrize the difference between the ICH7R and the ICH8R southbridges?  I'm going to guess the ICH8R in the Gigabyte is what gives it 8 SATA/6 USB over the ASUS 6 SATA (+1 ext?) and 4 USB.  Also 2 1394a on the GB instead of 1 on the ASUS, but I'm not sure if that's a big deal.  The GB mobo is $2 less (newegg price) than the ASUS, too.