Two-week (more or less) thoughts.

[WindupAtheist]

So I've been playing WoW again for a little over two weeks, in the company of my reincarnated UO guild.  Half the people in it are UO folks I've known for at least two years, and the other half are people recruited since the guild reconstituted in WoW.  We're Horde on a PVP server, which wouldn't have been my first choice, but seems to be working out okay.  Thoughts:

*  Having a good guild makes this game 1000% more fun.  No MMO cuts the mustard as a single-player game, after all, and the company of the common WoW retard certainly doesn't make any difference.

*  Speaking of which, Barrens chat.  It really is that bad.  /leave general

*  My Tauren shaman is up to level 23, and I'm slowly cutting my PVP teeth.  Everyone I've /dueled has been cool and polite.  Blood elf pallies have been easy to beat up so far, but rogues are hard.  Chalk it up at least partially to my having experience playing a paladin.

*  Total lack of PVP death penalty for the motherfucking win.  I jumped a warlock four levels higher than me and almost got her.  I know what I did wrong, and if I fought her again I know I could take her.  Me and a mage friend also squashed a Draenei shaman of roughly equal level who had the temerity to attack the both of us.  Fun.

*  Still, I'm completely fucking sick of getting one-shotted by every bored high-level Alliance faggot who comes running by.  (Fucking rogues!)  But hey, when in Rome, right?  Woe unto the Alliance lowbie who crosses my path once I level up some more.

*  Grinding is less grindy than questing.  Seriously.  Run here, get that, bring it to this other city, no you're killing the wrong sort of boars, now go bring me some hooves, blah blah blah.  Fuck that noise.  I go out and kill shit while blabbing on Ventrilo with my guild.  I don't mean I stand in once place and camp, I mean I just run around mowing down every zebra and giraffe and dinosaur that crosses my path.  I do that, and I run instances with guildmates to get better gear than anything those shitty quests are giving out.

*  I've convinced my guild to stop saying "Ding" and "Gratz" because fuck that EQ shit.  We say "Pork" and "Beans" now, for some reason.  Suffice it to say "I porked three times today!" sounds funnier in Ventrilo anyway.

*  I find myself doing the grind/instance thing just long enough to feel I'm making progress, then the rest of the time I'm out powerleveling guildies lower than me and running around helping with random quests.  Instead of being a permanent gopher for stupid villagers, I just kinda do what I want and still get by.

*  Seriously, I'm gonna fucking rape some Alliance cockbags once I'm leet.  Assholes.

[Xanthippe]

Barrens chat lays waste to the idea that Horde players are somehow more mature than Alliance.

Questing works if you have some idea as to what quests are in which area (there are guides for that sort of thing) so that you're not running back and forth too much.  Foregoing questing can make reputation gains problematic as well.

Ganking is not more prevalent by Alliance than Horde; both sides do it.  Certain zones are KOS zones; others not.  STV is; Desolace isn't.  Generally speaking, that is.  I never thought Ashenvale was, particularly, as a horde, but when I tried levelling my daughter's alliance hunter there, found that I was KOS by everyone.  After the third gank, I rampaged on my main, killing every little horde I could find. 

[Selby]

I second the good guild part.  Having friends to just talk to while you level\quest away really makes a difference in the game (really, any game).  The only drawback to guilds is when everyone becomes really high level and the decision to take it to the next level (raiding) becomes part of the decision.  Usually the guild officers and leaders can cause a ton of problems and break the guild apart over this.  I made the move to raiding once I hit 60 and got a bit of experience at instance running and it was nothing but problems.  The really uber guilds don't want new guys with them because they assume they just want the loot and will DE set pieces that I wanted even though no one else in the group needed\wanted it (all in T2 or better and me with my greens ;-) ).  And of course the amount of guild hopping that goes on by various members I knew showed that the end game players on my server was quite a small community and everybody knew everybody.

And PvP can be quite fun if you are enjoying it.  My other half actually enjoyed flagging and ganking every Alliance she could, even if she would (and did) lose.

[Morfiend]

I think its awesome that you are giving the game a second chance. There is a lot of fun to be had in the right situations. Yeah, getting ganked by high levels sucks, but its really not that bad cause the majority of high level players are in outland.

Let us know if you have any questions or such.

Two pieces of advice.

1) Improved Ghost Wolf can really save your ass when leveling.

2) FROST SHOCK!!!

[Venkman]

Good guilds can make ANY game bearable for a time.

Barrens chat is no better or worse than many of the densely-packed public spaces, as anyone who's spent the week in Hellfire can attest. /leave general indeed. I've always wondered: did UO ever get "zone"-wide chat, or is it still all local? I recall West Brit Bank being as bad as, say, Stranglehorn Vale.

And it's your own damned fault for starting on a PvP server when you knew this game was level-based PvP. Sorry to be so blunt about it but you know better. Good to see you make it to 23 though. I never even bothered.

[Fabricated]

*  Grinding is less grindy than questing.  Seriously.  Run here, get that, bring it to this other city, no you're killing the wrong sort of boars, now go bring me some hooves, blah blah blah.  Fuck that noise.  I go out and kill shit while blabbing on Ventrilo with my guild.  I don't mean I stand in once place and camp, I mean I just run around mowing down every zebra and giraffe and dinosaur that crosses my path.  I do that, and I run instances with guildmates to get better gear than anything those shitty quests are giving out.

You are experiencing the suck that is horde zones. I despise every horde-centric zone from 1-40. I highly recommend you quest though, at least the non-irritating ones, since rep gains can be helpful for affording mounts and services later on. Not all quest equipment is junk, but yeah, quest greens in 90% of pre BC Warcraft suck some ass compared to even dropped greens.

[Venkman]

Oh they still haven't done a content pass for Horde? That was one thing that kept me from having a serious Horde alt. I think the Undead had it best, but that whole experience just freaked me out (little girl crying in the Alchemy lab in UD... not with two daughters, thanks). Orc seemed next, with Tauren ok and Troll just almost outright sucking.

Blood Elves meanwhile seem awesome through level 20-ish when you're unleashed unto a nice run through EPL (or is there a flight/port/quest to get outta that place now?)

[Mazakiel]

In the very back of the Spire of the Sun (I think that's the name), where the regent is, is an orb of translocation that teleports you to right outside of the Undercity, in an area to the west of the courtyard.  So no mad dash through the Plaguelands needed. 

[WindupAtheist]

So what does reputation do for me, anyway?  Make my mount cheaper?  I gotta tell you, I'd rather farm X% more gold than go back to "No no no, that's a Stickleback Piglooter, not a Stickleback Lootpig, we're in the wrong place and these ones don't count!" and farming 4000 goat penises for some villager's goat penis stew recipe.

Also, I'm not complaining about it being a PVP server really.  I'm just saying, eventually some innocent Alliance newbs are going to pay for my frustration at getting owned in one hit.  Once we're all leveled, I'm gonna grab a couple more ex-UO peeps and do newb killing runs.  Just because.

[SurfD]

Ganking is not more prevalent by Alliance than Horde; both sides do it.  Certain zones are KOS zones; others not.  STV is; Desolace isn't.  Generally speaking, that is.  I never thought Ashenvale was, particularly, as a horde, but when I tried levelling my daughter's alliance hunter there, found that I was KOS by everyone.  After the third gank, I rampaged on my main, killing every little horde I could find.

Trying to remember, but your Daughter's hunter is a Night Elf right?  That may be a contributing factor in the rate of ashenvale gankage.  Something about Night Elf Hunters just irritates the hell out of the average Horde (bonus points if it's a MALE night elf hunter)

[SurfD]

So what does reputation do for me, anyway?  Make my mount cheaper?  I gotta tell you, I'd rather farm X% more gold than go back to "No no no, that's a Stickleback Piglooter, not a Stickleback Lootpig, we're in the wrong place and these ones don't count!" and farming 4000 goat penises for some villager's goat penis stew recipe.

With the new game, reputation doesent do much for you till you hit outlands (unless you really WANT to grind some Argent Dawn rep to get into naxx later just to see the place).   Most of the old reputation groups are no longer worth the rep grind, unless you want some of the crafting recepies for completeness sake or something.

In outlands however, quest Rep is a pretty key factor for getting efficiently to Revered with the factions in outlands (99% of mobs stop giving you rep at Honored), and each faction is pretty important.  Each dungeon set (Hellfire Citadel, Coilfang Resivoir, etc) is tied to a reputation group which you need to hit revered for to get the Key that unlocks the advanced instances (shattered Halls for HFC, etc).

Also, reputation with different factions gives you access to some VERY sweet purchaseable rewards.

[WindupAtheist]

I'll grind that bridge when I come to it.  I'm level 23 and I'm not doing un-fun shit now because I'm worried about getting into uber dungeons in Outland some ungodly time in the future.  Thanks for the info.

[Azazel]

No, he's saying that it doesn't even come into it until you get to 58+ and into the outlands.

[WindupAtheist]

In that case, rock on.

BTW, with the uber shit reportedly dropping in BC five-man level 60 instances, are the days of 40-man raids over now or what?  Aren't the BC uber-raids just 25-man?

[Venkman]

Unless you're decked out in Naxx gear, yea, old-world raiding is over. There's no reason to go except for kicks. Anything that didn't drop from Naxxramas is replaced by the mid-60s, and some of it probably through soloing quests. They REALLY threw the kitchen sink at this expac to ensure nearly everyone either buys it or wants it so bad they'll eBay for it. It's not just about gear. It's about how getting Tier 1 quality gear went from requiring 40-man raids to just knowing where the NPCs are around the first outpost you hit in BC.

[Jayce]

Unless you're decked out in Naxx gear, yea, old-world raiding is over. There's no reason to go except for kicks. Anything that didn't drop from Naxxramas is replaced by the mid-60s, and some of it probably through soloing quests. They REALLY threw the kitchen sink at this expac to ensure nearly everyone either buys it or wants it so bad they'll eBay for it. It's not just about gear. It's about how getting Tier 1 quality gear went from requiring 40-man raids to just knowing where the NPCs are around the first outpost you hit in BC.

Leads me to wonder what they're going to do with all that content.  That seems like a lot of work to just pitch out the door.  Heroic mode MC?

But that's another thread.  Good thoughts on the game, WUA.  This thread gave me a different appreciation for your playstyle.  I personally like quests.  Kill quests give a bonus to your grinding and even fedex can be part of an interesting storyline (and sometimes can't).  The key IMO is to be bold about ditching the boring or timesink ones.  Accept often, drop often  :mrgreen:

[pxib]

*  Grinding is less grindy than questing.  Seriously.  Run here, get that, bring it to this other city, no you're killing the wrong sort of boars, now go bring me some hooves, blah blah blah.  Fuck that noise.  I go out and kill shit while blabbing on Ventrilo with my guild.  I don't mean I stand in once place and camp, I mean I just run around mowing down every zebra and giraffe and dinosaur that crosses my path.  I do that, and I run instances with guildmates to get better gear than anything those shitty quests are giving out.

My father, who still plays every day, works the game this way. He's done time trials and found that very few quests are worth the time investment compared to educated grinding. You get more money, more experience, and better items if you don't have to travel back and forth to the quest NPCs and just stick to areas with mobs that respawn quickly, are vulnerable to your character's abilities, and compliment your play style. When he gets bored of blatant grinding he goes for a hike and kills everything he sees... or he tries to get into a guild instance run. Some of the quests were fun the first time, he says, but there's only a few worth doing once you've seen them before.

He's Horde, too. Maybe it comes with the territory.

[hal]

WUA, I am glad your enjoying yourself. Facts as I perceive them. WOW is a very good game, Yet played with a known group of friends, an order of magnitude better. That can go for most games out there, but WOW is a good game. Is tight, is polished. But the friends bit is important? no?

[WindupAtheist]

BTW, I love my shaman.  I stood back and healed in Shadowfang Keep, then immediately went to Wailing Caverns and tanked.  It's kinda like playing my old paladin, except I can actually inflict damage.

[Xanthippe]

On my 3rd toon to 60, I used a levelling guide (James guide I think).  Only had to do half as much because I only played on rested.  Using a leveling guide is a really nice way to get up; probably faster than straight grinding.  Certainly less boring.

[Xanthippe]

Trying to remember, but your Daughter's hunter is a Night Elf right?  That may be a contributing factor in the rate of ashenvale gankage.  Something about Night Elf Hunters just irritates the hell out of the average Horde (bonus points if it's a MALE night elf hunter)

Yes, NE hunter.  Still, I don't want to hear any more horde complain about Hillsbrad.  It's no worse than Ashenvale for the other side - at least Nightelves, who are the only alliance sent there by quests.

[Furiously]

I still think Taren Mill is the worst. It sends the Horde there 5 levels earlier then the alliance and you keep going back as alliance until you hit 60.

[Morfiend]

Yeah, that was just bad planning. Horde level in Hillsbrad 22-30. Alliance are around 32-38 or so. Jesus, how could they not see the problems coming?

[MournelitheCalix]

Good guilds can make ANY game bearable for a time.

I completely agree with this, there have been a lot of games which I have stuck with for much longer than I ordinarily would have because of my guild.  When Jessica Mulligan and the Liars Ken (ken Karl and ken Troop) were busy with their monthly nerfing of everything that made the game fun, the only thing that kept me from quitting the bait and switch that was Asheron's Call 2 was the people I was with.

The same can be said for Star Wars Galaxies.  While that really wasn't a bait and switch like Asheron's Call 2, it was the player driven content that kept you in the game for as long as I played it (up until the CU).  The best experience I have ever had in MMO's came in SWG at the beginning because of the guild I was in.  I have never seen so many people work night and day, cooperating with each other, and just plain having a great time as I saw in the first few weeks when everyone was working towards getting our PA hall built.  It was a great time, and there was a great sense of accomplishment when we saw the guild hall go up for the first time.

[Lantyssa]

Oh dear, someone mentioned that game.  Watch out, the floodgates are open.

(Although I totally agree.)

[WindupAtheist]

Guildy:  "It's a night elf!"
Me:  "Rip out his uterus!"
Guildy:  "What?"
Me:  "All elves have uteri, even the males."

So now some of us have a "/e rips out his uterus and stomps on it" macro set for when a night elf dies.  We know the alliance guy can't see it, but we can, and that's good enough.

[Tale]

The same can be said for that game.  While that really wasn't a bait and switch like Asheron's Call 2, it was the player driven content that kept you in the game for as long as I played it (up until the CU).  The best experience I have ever had in MMO's came in that game at the beginning because of the guild I was in.  I have never seen so many people work night and day, cooperating with each other, and just plain having a great time as I saw in the first few weeks when everyone was working towards getting our PA hall built.  It was a great time, and there was a great sense of accomplishment when we saw the guild hall go up for the first time.

I agree. I'm actually playing WoW with the people I went through that PA hall building experience with. I think WoW could actually achieve a similar experience with player housing/guild halls if an "AQ war effort" type of thing was required -- make all our crafters and gatherers work together to get enough materials and complex crafted components to raise a guild hall (although maybe being instanced will not make it feel as impressive if we can't park it outside Theed and have passers-by marvel at the uberness).

[jpark]

Ganking is not more prevalent by Alliance than Horde; both sides do it. 

Having played 60 on both sides I don't believe this.  Given the poor BG record alliance has - they will often look for open field pvp fights to vent their frustrations and return to an era wher numerical superiority was an option for them in pvp.

As an alliance guy I was solicited by alliance guys at 60 to "practise" pvp at cross roads and I have seen similar tactics by alliance in playing my horde alts in a variety of horde starting areas (pvp flagging themselvs - and trying to sucker guys who are true newbies in the game to attacking them).  In 2 years of playing this game - I have not seen horde do this.  Of course it does happen, but my experience of alliance seeking easy pvp ganking reinforces my perception that deeply suppressed sexual functions, coupled with arrested physiological development with its concomitant mental impacts, defines the alliance member population.

For thos of you who play alliance on these boards - my condolences on your SAD FUCKING STATE.

[Calantus]

That could also be because of Crossroads. There simply is not an alliance equivalent. My brother used to log onto his lvl 15-35 horde characters all the time whenever he wanted a lowbie duel because the ONLY place you can reliably get one on either side is Crossroads because of how much population moves through it.

[jpark]

That could also be because of Crossroads. There simply is not an alliance equivalent. My brother used to log onto his lvl 15-35 horde characters all the time whenever he wanted a lowbie duel because the ONLY place you can reliably get one on either side is Crossroads because of how much population moves through it.

These were 60 alliance looking for action though.  My point to them was - go flag yourself by Ogrimmar and you will get meaningful practise.

[Zetor]

Having played 60 on both sides I don't believe this.  Given the poor BG record alliance has - they will often look for open field pvp fights to vent their frustrations and return to an era wher numerical superiority was an option for them in pvp.

As an alliance guy I was solicited by alliance guys at 60 to "practise" pvp at cross roads and I have seen similar tactics by alliance in playing my horde alts in a variety of horde starting areas (pvp flagging themselvs - and trying to sucker guys who are true newbies in the game to attacking them).  In 2 years of playing this game - I have not seen horde do this.  Of course it does happen, but my experience of alliance seeking easy pvp ganking reinforces my perception that deeply suppressed sexual functions, coupled with arrested physiological development with its concomitant mental impacts, defines the alliance member population.

For thos of you who play alliance on these boards - my condolences on your SAD FUCKING STATE.

My current server has horde repeatedly ganking and griefing [ie. having mobs kill the players by debuffing them] alliance in duskwood [20-30 zone] and redridge [15-20 zone]. I can name at least 5-6 horde doing this, and two-three guilds that used to organize raids to said zones [with all 60s of course... these don't happen now, since everyone is grinding 70].
My old server had TWO horde guilds completely locking down zones and preventing alliance from ever completing quests in ashenvale unless they had stealth. The two first rooftop camper griefers (this was before the booty bay / gadgetzan guards got guns) were an undead priest and an orc hunter.

But I don't derive any sort of "deep psychological conclusion" about an entire gaming faction of 3+ million people from this. :p


-- Z.

[waylander]

I play on Muga'thol, and being ganked by the Horde is just as prevalent as alliance ganking the horde. Some zones have more of it than the others, but its all part of the game.

I just hit level 63 last night and I'm doing about 1.5 levels a week. But overall I think the game is pretty enjoyable for one that wasn't built around PVP in the first place.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm getting to love the world PVP in WoW.  I've quickly become immune to any real frustration at getting run over by high-level Alliance, thanks to the total lack of a PVP death penalty.  Meanwhile, doing my newbie best to help in battles between higher-level guys (an unresisted Frost Shock at the wrong time can fuck with anyone) and fragging Alliance around my own level are both a lot of fun.  I won't deliberately commit suicide solo-attacking someone I have no mathematical chance of defeating, but everyone else is pretty much fair game.  And yeah, I'll gank people.  Shit, why not?  Reroll PVE if you don't like it.

If you want meaningful PVP with consequences, go play Eve.  My brother has started playing it, and it looks and sounds like a very impressive game.  I give them all the credit in the world for being the ones to finally make an item-loss PVP MMO that looks, functions, and is marketed like a product for grownups.

But this is WoW, and WoW PVP is basically DikuMUD overlaid with a first-person shooter level of PVP.  Boom headshot.

[Jayce]

For thos of you who play alliance on these boards - my condolences on your SAD FUCKING STATE.

If I'm not mistaken, the difference between this post and the two refutation posts are that the refutations are on a PvP server (correct my if I'm wrong). That sort of makes sense to me... PvE servers have an abundance of alliance, and that they would be carebears who don't like PvP in which they aren't guaranteed a win would not surprise me.

Not that everyone in said situation is of that mindset, but the demographic skews in that direction.

[Fordel]

On PVE servers, whenever the horde try to gank/grief in turn, they just get rolled by the alliance train.

Doesn't stop them from trying though