EA's idea or Mythic's?

[Nebu]

Yes... I still play DAoC.  When you're done laughing, take a look at the latest login poll I got while logging in to DAoC this evening.

We are looking for your feedback on purchasing a la carte game features.  Among the top requested features are such things as: Server moves, gender respecs, additional character slots, and additional vault slots.  If this mechanism were the only way that these features could become available, would you be willing to purchase them?

Looks like they're considering add on features as a potential cash stream for DAoC.  I can only assume they they have something similar in mind for Warhammer as well.  Server moves are something we've already seen in other mmogs.  I'm just interested in what else they try to cash in on and the demand for such services.

I'm not really surprised by this move, nor do I think it's a bad one.  I expect it's going to be a standard part of most future online games. 

[Strazos]

I would expect to pay for server moves. And I don't care about gender changes.

What interests me though, is the additional vault or character slots. I would never pay for either, but how many a player starts with will definitely figure into if they purchase additional slots.

[Calantus]

Server changes and race/class/gender/whatever changes are fine with me. Character and vault slots though... I guess as long as the default slot numbers are reasonable I would be fine with it. I'd define reasonable as where the slots are sufficient for the average player to never need the upgrade. Otherwise you're just sneaking in an extra charge, instead of charging for extras.

I'd say it could go either way as to who decided on it.

[Venkman]

Modelled after SOE's Station Players/Exchange system I think, and I imagine something Mythic is not really baulking at. There's a lot of extra money to be made out there through microtransactions and companies owe it to their stockholders to try and go grab some of it.

SOE would be doing better if their games were better, but their philosophy of microtransactions has been proven well in other cultures and other Western demographics (like, younger players in America).

[Azazel]

I haven't played DAoC since my pack-in month, right around release, but I would gladly pay for a gender change for my WoW Night Elf hunter, since he looks like total ass.

Not sure if any of Camelot's races look as shitty as Night Elf males, but if so, I could see the appeal.

[HRose]

Looks like they're considering add on features as a potential cash stream for DAoC.  I can only assume they they have something similar in mind for Warhammer as well.  Server moves are something we've already seen in other mmogs.  I'm just interested in what else they try to cash in on and the demand for such services. 

Not only. I'm not 100% sure but I thought DAoC ALREADY offered server transfer for a price. They already offer splitting accounts and other quirks FOR SURE.

Btw, commenting the actual discussion. The problem is how many of these mechanics are used as an excuse to take more money. It really depends on the competition and what you offer in the game as a whole.

For example I believe that server travel should be a major game mechanic, and as such shouldn't be a "premium" service. It's something that I think should be part of the quality of the service. The number of character slots and bank space fall in the same case.

There are games that may try to make you pay for this. Other games may consider these standards of quality and include them for free at the very least.

Imho: till these services are USELESS then people just won't mind. They will ignore them and not be too concerned. But as these services become more significant than they'll finish to turn off a good number of customers. I doubt this will become a trend.

So, when you design your next game, you'll try to give players enough space in the bank and enough character slots to offer the players an high standard of quality or instead you will design the game around artificial restraints so that they players have to toss at you more money?

As always the better service will get the most customers, while those who just want the monies won't get any.

[Venkman]

You're missing the point. People have proven they are willing to pay for this stuff. So why should the publishers permit the developers to make better game play experiences that mitigate their ability to charge for stuff?

Seriously, the entire microtrans model in Korea is based on the fact that people like diku, and are willing to pay extra for it. They give away the games and you have an account for life. And these are millions of actual people, not one person making a million accounts.

They don't force people to pay extra. Maplestory, Habbo, Krazykart, Audition, none of this stuff forces people to buy. And they have players Blizzard can only dream of.

It's not about enticing people only with better gaming experiences. It's about enticing them with that AND giving them even more options. Some want to just play the game that is. Others would like to inject more cash for an advantage. Blizzard has gutted the RMT market in America temporarily, but they have done more damage than good in my opinion, for those that hate this stuff anyway:

• Nobody else can afford to out-Blizzard Blizzard, so they are forced to innovate. Yet they cannot afford to take many chances either. This shit is expensive.
• Microtrans work. And microtransactions are legally owned by the developer/publisher. And it has been proven time and again that the average amount of money collected from each account averages much more than what's collected from flat-fee accounts.

Now, count how many games are coming that will be flat-fee based and compare that to those that'll be microtrans.

WoW capped the old guard, and in doing so forced the ushering in of a brave new world.

[Krakrok]

I'd pay extra for faster exp gain on a fast exp gain server. 10X, 20X, 30X. Better yet just let me decide when I'm done with the current level and let me instantly level up for $0.99. Or both. Or instead of exp make it 'kill one of every mob your level to advance to the next level'.

Call it the playground server.

[Hoax]

Wake me up when we've gotten to the point where the games are f2p with online stores  to get special items, advantages, comestic stuff and whatnot.  That's where we're headed just the western market is getting there more slowly...


*insert excuse here*

[WindupAtheist]

We are looking for your feedback on purchasing a la carte game features.  Among the top requested features are such things as: Server moves, gender respecs, additional character slots, and additional vault slots.  If this mechanism were the only way that these features could become available, would you be willing to purchase them?

UO has been selling shard transfers for a long time now, has included a sixth character slot with a couple of different boxes, and just added sex change tokens a while back.  (Bank space isn't really an issue now that there's enough housing spots.)  This looks like the exact same EA "get more money from an aged MMO" plan.

The nice thing about the UO version is, when purchased, these services come in the form of a physical token.  Brokers buy them for real money and sell them on vendors for game money, presumably so they can eBay the gold at a profit.  I'm not really a fan of RMT, but being able to buy what are normally real-money services with UO gold has been convenient at times.

[Calantus]

On that note, I actually dig that you can buy a character for UO (last time I looked...). As long as companies don't make the grind extra shitty to milk such sales I don't see a problem with that personally.

[Yegolev]

and just added sex change tokens a while back.

There's a good joke here, but I'm too wiped-out to figure it out.

[Signe]

I'm pretty sure it must have something to do with getting an addadicktome.

(boo hiss!)

[Numtini]

Please Freya, let the guys playing Valkyries be guys for $14.95.

[eldaec]

Yes... I still play DAoC.  When you're done laughing, take a look at the latest login poll I got while logging in to DAoC this evening.

We are looking for your feedback on purchasing a la carte game features.  Among the top requested features are such things as: Server moves, gender respecs, additional character slots, and additional vault slots.  If this mechanism were the only way that these features could become available, would you be willing to purchase them?

Looks like they're considering add on features as a potential cash stream for DAoC.

They already have a service to facilitate character RMT sales, by transfering individual characters to other accounts for $40. Gender respecs and server moves would be an obvious way to compliment this.

http://www.camelotherald.com/article.php?id=60

I find it amusing that Mythic could suggest that that it is possible that gender respec is a feature that might only be 'possible to make available' with a fee associated.


tbh, the way daoc is set up, with a problematic pve grind, followed by a core rvr system where 'social grinding' into a decent guild is the most important form of  progression; these sorts of features probably wouldn't break anything.

Charging for extra vault space is cheap sauce though. That's such a trivial thing to provide.

[WindupAtheist]

On that note, I actually dig that you can buy a character for UO (last time I looked...). As long as companies don't make the grind extra shitty to milk such sales I don't see a problem with that personally.

Yeah, I've even used one of those 'advanced character' thingies, bought as a token with UO gold.  Thing is, the character you get is only equivalent to maybe a level 40 in WoW.  You're no longer a newb, but you're hardly insta-endgame, and by the way you need some money and gear.  It is handy though, if you're a veteran and don't want to fuck around killing lizardmen to skill up.

[Jayce]

You people keep throwing around the term "enough" vault space or character slots as if the word means something.  You know that anytime you define "enough" some assbiscuit will make the case that it's not, in fact, enough.

Someone has to unilaterally draw the line somewhere, and you may just as well charge for anything after that.  It's a gate mechanism just as much as a revenue stream.  Let those to whom it's important pay for it so others don't have to.

[Calantus]

You people keep throwing around the term "enough" vault space or character slots as if the word means something.  You know that anytime you define "enough" some assbiscuit will make the case that it's not, in fact, enough.

Someone has to unilaterally draw the line somewhere, and you may just as well charge for anything after that.  It's a gate mechanism just as much as a revenue stream.  Let those to whom it's important pay for it so others don't have to.

I was one of those people throwing out the "enough" thing, and I did it in support of what you say in this post. There's a definite point where you just don't need any more, and if you somehow do, I definitely think the company can file it under "extras" and charge for it. In WoW I'd say they actually have excessive default bank and character space. The average player doesn't need 10 characters on a server, nor do they need all 8(?) bank bag slots (I bought them all, but I had huge amounts of herbs I didn't strictly need). The only reason why I said you need "enough" is because 1 character is most definitely not enough, not even 2 is enough. You'd want 3 (main, alt, mule) as an absolute minimum I'd think under the current games we've got.

btw, this post sounds slightly aggressive to me (or maybe my brain is just fried atm), but I didn't really want it to. :P

[Azazel]

You people keep throwing around the term "enough" vault space or character slots as if the word means something.  You know that anytime you define "enough" some assbiscuit will make the case that it's not, in fact, enough.

Someone has to unilaterally draw the line somewhere, and you may just as well charge for anything after that.  It's a gate mechanism just as much as a revenue stream.  Let those to whom it's important pay for it so others don't have to.

EQ1 has (more than once) added additional bank space as a "feature" that comes with an expansion. The PC-froglok one and one of the more recent ones.

[Venkman]

It's just about options. Instead of going all socialist and forcing everyone to think and play the same way, companies are smart to charge extra for those who so don't mind being packrats they'll pay extra for it. WoW's current bank slots work that way. You can't scale to every one of them without dropping some serious gold ("serious" for anyone who doesn't play 30 hour weeks or camps the AH).

[Johny Cee]

DAoC right now has 8 character slots a server/realm.  Which is between adequate and good,  and means you can play 80% of the classes in your realm.  If you play alot of characters, and have been playing a long time,  it builds up.  Right now,  since clustering, that just means you go roll up a toon on one of the servers you're clustered with,  but you have to relog the game client to do it.

Vault space is decent to good as well, between character vaults and housing vaults.  Increasing vault space just means you have to clean out less,  and can afford to packrat more.

Basically,  I'd say this is aimed at milking more money from the overachievers.

The RvR/PvP system is still one of the best out there, though.  A good mix of skill, tactics, and strategy.

[Nebu]

The RvR/PvP system is still one of the best out there, though.  A good mix of skill, tactics, and strategy.

I agree. Sadly you only get to experience this if you play with 7 other quality players.  The barrier to entry is now so low (our guildie went 1-50 and had a full PvP suit in 15h played) that it's a shame more guilds don't try it. 

I hope this brings in more revenue.  This is my only hope until AoC or War come out and I'm not to confident Funcomm will pull off AoC.

[Soln]

The RvR/PvP system is still one of the best out there, though.  A good mix of skill, tactics, and strategy.

I still think the barrier to entry in DAoC is way too high; especially for the competition it has.  I went back for awhile in 2006 guildless to try and grind past 44 to 50 -- couldn't do it.  I won't crap on the game, because I also agree it has the best DIKU PvP out there too (Eve is best overall IMO).  But they ought to lower the XP grind.  It makes CoX look like WoW for advancement. 

[Nebu]

But they ought to lower the XP grind.  It makes CoX look like WoW for advancement. 

It took me a lot longer to get to level 35 in WoW or CoH than the 2h it takes me in DAoC.  I don't think that's a fair comparison.  Double xp in PvP zones (even if you PvE in them) and 1.5 XP in the SI zones.  If you get help from a friend I've done 1-40 in 2h and 40 - 50 in another 10h or so. Even though the barrier has been reduced to a ridiculous low... without a group of friends to play with, DAoC just isn't worth playing anymore.   

I wish this weren't the case, but I'm afraid running with mindless zergs just isn't a fun PvP experience... and the solo game is almost non-existent nor is it encouraged.

[tazelbain]

Guild Wars has basically the same problem.  Both were released with horrible PvE which alienated most of the market.  Overtime, they have both made strides to fix it.  But it doesn't matter because the market has moved on.  And nothing is going to get people en mass to comeback.  That ship has already sailed. 

[Venkman]

The barrier isn't time. It's friends, or at least, a good guild that is so present, newbies walking off the street get invited and powerleveled to the relevant portion of the game.

You could quadruple XP rates and it wouldn't matter.

[Nebu]

The barrier isn't time. It's friends, or at least, a good guild that is so present, newbies walking off the street get invited and powerleveled to the relevant portion of the game.

You could quadruple XP rates and it wouldn't matter.

I think I said that already....

Even though the barrier has been reduced to a ridiculous low... without a group of friends to play with, DAoC just isn't worth playing anymore. 

[Fordel]

I wish this weren't the case, but I'm afraid running with mindless zergs just isn't a fun PvP experience... and the solo game is almost non-existent nor is it encouraged.

What if the zerg wasn't mindless? :) . My favorite times in DaoC were never the small group stuff, but the large realm wide wars. For me, the 8 man stuff got boring, it was the large keep fights, the massive open pitch battles and the macro combat around the realms themselves. The only real issues I had were the *massive* population imbalances, the dramatic class balancing and the shitacular PvE that led to more class/gear imbalances. Not to say RvR couldn't be improved on, it could, but DaoC would've had much longer legs if people weren't horribly outnumbered and didn't have to sell their souls to the PvE grind to remain competitive in RvR.