What Does This Have To Do With Shadowbane?

[Signe]

Taking Aim at the Future!
         

Stray Bullet Games has begun an exciting new era with the development of a new massively multiplayer online (MMO) game. The new project is based on an original intellectual property conceived in-house, and while the concept phase is ongoing we are actively developing a proof of concept prototype.

With this new project, Stray Bullet is committed to creating a fully-realized, ongoing online conflict that combines furious action with tactical and strategic game play. In the game to come characters, guilds, and global factions will engage in meaningful, exciting, and fun mass combat. To realize this
         

vision the team is drawing upon our experience, the lessons learned developing and supporting Shadowbane, and is looking outside the MMO genre to strategy and tactical games for inspiration.

“While it is still too early to release extensive details on the game,” says Frank Lucero, Vice President of Product Development and COO, “we have a firm hand on what the game will and will not be. We have taken what we’ve learned and applied it to every aspect of the design and development of the game.”

Mike Madden, the Creative Director, had more to say about the design process for the new project. “We have two guiding principles: Rely upon the familiar and Be bold.” Madden explained further; “In setting, systems and game play, we want to build on a firm foundation of features that are familiar and comfortable to MMO players, making the game as inviting and accessible as possible. We see no need to innovate in areas MMOs already do well. At the same time, in areas that do require innovation to achieve our goals, Stray Bullet will never think small.”

Stray Bullet has already decided not to create its own game engine. “We are dedicated to using middleware technology solutions whenever possible,” says Ala Diaz, Stray Bullet’s Technical Director. “This lets us minimize risk by focusing developer efforts on fun game play and entertaining experiences instead of new technologies and MMO infrastructure.”

One of the key aspects of the new project is its look and feel. “Our goal is to create a dynamic art style that is timeless, and that will create passion and excitement within the studio and MMOG community,” says Ivan Enriquez, the Art Director at Stray Bullet Games. “We are building an unbeatable team of highly talented artists, with years of industry experience. We hope you find this small sample as exciting as we do.”

“When I see the passion and excitement this new project has already generated in every member of the team, I’m thrilled,” says Mark Nausha, President and CEO. “In a few short months Stray Bullet has generated strong buzz, and I’m very pleased with the amount of interest we are seeing in our studio and this new project. This team has the experience, the tools, and the talent to make Stray Bullet a force in the MMO game space, and this new project begins the journey.”

Due to the stage the project is currently in, Stray Bullet Games will not be releasing additional details on the project in the near future but we look forward to bringing you more conceptual art as it develops.

While Stray Bullet Games currently only has an open position for a Junior Programmer, the company is always on the lookout for highly motivated individuals. If you are interested in pursuing a career in the burgeoning market of online entertainment, please don't hesitate to send us your resume and/or portfolio electronically to bullseye@straybulletgames.com.

  Look at me! 

[geldonyetich]

Finally, a company that believes in innovation that does not risk innovating.

[KallDrexx]

Hrm this seems to say that they are quite early in the development process.  I know that before the SB team became Stray Bullet they were working on a secret MMORPG (Ashen said quite a few times a new one was in the works and that it was not ShadowBane 2).  With this saying that they have begun development and still in the concept phase, I wonder if they weren't allowed to take the IP to the new company for some reason. 

Or maybe I"m reading too much into how far along they were previously or what stage they are at now.

Either way I don't see anything too interesting in this.  They claim they are striving to make a game thats as inviting and accessible as possible, I wonder if they are scrapping the idea of free PvP (like how Shadowbane is).  While SB was fun in the PvP aspect it is neither exciting nor accessible for a lot of people.  Knowing what kind of game it is is probably the only thing I find interesting about the press release.

[Venkman]

Their entire statement effectively said nothing. I don't know why they even felt compelled to say anything. Unless they've actually got something to talk about, they should spend this year staffing up and actually, like, designing.

What they have implied is basically innovation inside a defined box. Ah well. They'd be better off casting a narrow net that dives deep unless they become a huge company with a big budget to deliver polish on a diku and market it.

[Soln]

So many red names, so many super sekret projects.  I swear, in a few years, things are gonna be hilarious once all these services get launched.

[Murgos]

Finally, a company that believes in innovation that does not risk innovating.

Um, what?

[lamaros]

Finally, a company that believes in innovation that does not risk innovating.

Um, what?

I think perhaps it was a joke. Sarcasm like.

[hal]

Oh, RLY??

[geldonyetich]

Is that was green text is for?

[waylander]

At least we know what the other guys at SBG do now. Maybe they'll end up doing someing truly innovative that's not the same old EQ/WoW clone with a different skin kinda game we're so used to by now.

[sinij]

Finally, a company that believes in innovation that does not risk innovating.

How so? SB, with all its faults and horrible release, was still one of the more ambitious games released in years. I just don't see these people releasing Another WoW Clone, they are better than that.

Well if anyone can produce The Next Big Thing for PvPers, it will be SBG. I also applaud decision not to develop engine, problems with SB engine were what held SB back and having in-house engine has NOTHING to do with releasing fun product.

Talk about accessible and such is admitting problem with SB - where truly new player had very difficult time getting in. Addressing this problem does not mean game will be hold-handing PvE-centric DIKU.

[jpark]

In the end shadowbane had my respect.  Ya the actual product sucked in many ways - but that was entirely understandable given that the company had taken a number of new approaches to the standard formula (imo anyway).

Of course, we have other games that have not deviated from the formula at all, and suck.  Now that is inexcusable.

I wanted to have one post today where I did not shit on EQ2.

On the other hand...

[waylander]

Who wants to bet this will come out before Darkfall???!!

[sinij]

e given that the company had taken a number of new approaches to the standard formula

I think SB introduced a lot of new ideas and as a result a lot of new interactions showed up. For example, who knew that quitting would be such predominant reaction for defeated guilds? Who knew that zerg (mega-alliances) would become such huge problem? Who knew leader burn-out will be big issue, it isn't in other games.

[tazelbain]

Is that was green text is for?

I thought it was a humorous quip.  I should have learn not to give you that much credit by now.

We see no need to innovate... There is a word for "not inovating", it is called copying. in areas MMOs already do well.  Right, because if you think the current mousetrap is good, why make a new one? At the same time, in areas that do require innovation to achieve our goals... I just can't wait to see your new anti-SB.EXE technology, Stray Bullet will never think small. That worked so well before.

[Signe]

My MMO will be out before Darkfall.  It would have been finished by now, but I ran out of crayons.   

[stray]

To be fair, bypassing the whole "Arcane Engine" phase is a good thing. Keep the "innovation" to play2crush. Just rip off/license whatever else.

[Venkman]

I think the R5 game of SB was perfect (when I played). It requires a lot from players, particularly since most often you were either farming for gold for your city, defending that city, or laying siege upon it. All of this required groups and coordinatoin. The game was very immersive, everything you did was tied to others, and you could make deep and meaningful impact on the world.

Where I feel it could have improved though was on the casual side of things. Side by side, I think Eve does a better job of this. Being a uniserver game helps a lot. The galaxy is so big players could live in one part and never see most anyone else. And the ability to both see who's coming and get outta dodge was just much better. By extension, I feel Eve is easier on the time-starved, and those who want to play a part in an economic sim without needing calendars and schedules and to be there four hours a night.

There's still a lot this genre could do on this side of things. A developer just needs the right combination of concept and business model to convince players to look up and for publishers and/or VC to pay down.

[stray]

The one thing that stands out to me is that normal guild members didn't have much to do when not sieging or pvp'ing. All you could do was farm. That needs to be improved.

Not to say that being a guild leader was that much better (after all, the best part of the game for them was the pvp too), but at least they got to muck around with wall designs, run shops, etc..

[Stephen Zepp]

In the end shadowbane had my respect.  Ya the actual product sucked in many ways - but that was entirely understandable given that the company had taken a number of new approaches to the standard formula (imo anyway).

Of course, we have other games that have not deviated from the formula at all, and suck.  Now that is inexcusable.

I wanted to have one post today where I did not shit on EQ2.

On the other hand...

I agree completely on this. In the areas they innovated, SB went leaps beyond what we had. For background, I was a nation leader of a lore-centric nation (as best we could anyway) for more than 6 months.

The main issues I had with SB, in order were:

--tech issues (crashes, performance)
--unfinished designs (SO much was planned for siege, and some of it was really basic--magonels having an ae player damage effect for example)
--poorly thought out political tracking systems (damned hard to keep track of lots of things, from spies to current enemy list)
--much too simplistic delegation system--as mentioned above, there simply wasn't a good mechanism for delegating authority for nations, guilds, and cities. This lead to about 3% of the player base doing 70% of the adminstrative work, and the rest farming (not counting actual fights). That could be spread out so much better in a second look at the designs.

I honestly wish these guys had gone with Torque (honestly, I think they made their decision before even knowing about Torque)--mostly because I'd be able to be much more tightly tied to their designs through our boot camps and support  :mrgreen:

[geldonyetich]

Yeah, that "finally a company that innovates without innovating" was meant to be a humorous quip.  I'm just trying to figure out how to make it clearer, because my sarcasm is oft missed.  I don't think people expect me to try to be funny, because I waffle between lunacy intended to invoke humor and serious cross-examination of my detractors motivations instantly.  Tell you what, I'll try to use italics when I'm being sarcastic.  But this thread isn't supposed to be about me.

So yeah, this proclamation on behalf of Stray Bullet games is a little unnerving.  It's like they're reassuring their investors that they're not a loose cannon that would invent a game that doesn't resemble the 2000 games that it seems to emulate, while simultaneously trying to reassure their potential clients (the gamers) that their game is going to be different.

I don't like to look at making games as a business.  I like to look at making games as more of an artform.  So when I hear people say copying is good, I'm mentally doing this: 

[Venkman]

Dude, why use 25 words when 2 will do.

For sarcasm, I think the accepted norm is text in green. And no, the text in green in that last sentence was not meant as sarcasm :)

The one thing that stands out to me is that normal guild members didn't have much to do when not sieging or pvp'ing.

Yea. About the only thing they could do was help farm gold, or grind alts.

[Roac]

To be fair, bypassing the whole "Arcane Engine" phase is a good thing. Keep the "innovation" to play2crush. Just rip off/license whatever else.

Yes.  More game companies should do this.  Although sometimes not desirable or perhaps possible, the main goal of a game company sould be to make a game, not a game engine.  Some companies do build games around their engine in hopes of licensing their engine (Unreal is a prime example), but unless the engine is your primary business, stay out of it. 

[sinij]

Main ‘flaws’ in SB that need to be addressed (and I’m very curious to see how this will play out) is delegation of responsibilities, land control and off-time things to do for unwashed masses of underprivileged grunts. I believe its all symptoms of one main problem.

I’m also curious to see if they attempt to move away from ‘spawn camp’ mentality and instead try something different – NPC nations, NPCs in service of PCs or anything else. I think its time we put idea of magically appearing monster with loot out of nowhere to rest – all loot should be generated in some way from resources that should be extracted and processed by somebody.

[sinij]

As to engine - are there any that could support 100 vs 100 fights and not crash&burn?

[Chenghiz]

As to engine - are there any that could support 100 vs 100 fights and not crash&burn?

Total War? I'm only partially kidding.

[Venkman]

Planetside is the only one I can think of besides SB, which honestly, by the time I signed on seemed to play fine enough. Only the occasional SB.exe.

As to creating games versus engines, I tend to think the same way (focus on game, buy the engine if need be). But there are often times when the engine can't do things you want it to, so you either compromise your design, or build a more appropriate engine.

[KallDrexx]

Talk about accessible and such is admitting problem with SB - where truly new player had very difficult time getting in. Addressing this problem does not mean game will be hold-handing PvE-centric DIKU.

How would you handle making a game that is accessible as possible to new players without turning the PvP into an RvR system, keeping the FFA mechanics.  The whole system denotes not trusting anyone, even guild-mates at time.  RvR games can easily make PvP Accessible to new players because from the get-go you have allies, you know who your friends are and who your enemies are.  From the get go in a Full-PvP game, everyone is your enemy and if you learn quickly to be very careful whom you choose to trust.

That was the only inaccessible part of SB.  I played SB for the first time when it went free.  I didn't find anything that made the game inaccessible for new players, since I was new with no direction.  The only problem in getting into the game was finding a group of players to play with, that I wouldn't have to fear backstabbing from.  Through finding a group of players that I could level with, whom worked together to make sure we survived any pk attempt, is how I really got into the game and formed the basis of the guild that made SB the enjoyable experience that I found it to be.  Yet it was only because I had the tough skin (and nothing else to play at the time) to be able to endure all of the pk attempts and having to constantly watch over my shoulder that I lasted long enough to find a group of players to play with.  In my eyes, that was the only real inaccessible part of the game for new players (gameplay wise at least), yet it's an issue that is formulated because of the FFA gametype.

Thats at least from my experience, so maybe I missed the real inaccessible parts of Shadowbane.  To me, Full PvP pretty much spells inaccessible to new players.

[stray]

Yes, the PvP is what it is. But there are other things to get people feeling more comfortable in the game:

A more guided leveling process (you're pretty much left with your dick in your hand as a level 10 newb in SB. And not only does the game not tell you where to go, but it's ugly and boring as shit when you get there anyways. The copy and paste, bland treadmill is not "accessible"). A little fool proof character building would help as well (fool proof that is....not dumbed down necessarily).

Solo play (though the game may be guild oriented, that shouldn't bar newcomers from hopping into the game and making progress. Let them learn over time the benefits of grouping and guilds, but don't force it).

[lamaros]

Text in green for sarcasm? Doesn't that defeat half the point of sarcasm?

[sinij]

How would you handle making a game that is accessible as possible to new players without turning the PvP into an RvR system, keeping the FFA mechanics.

This should really go into design section, still I will bite. Idea is to make new player, any player, to be useful to the guild and at the same time make it harder to create anonymous alt.

Examples:

Let’s say your game has mines that can ether be mined by expensive and killable NPC or PCs with some spare time. You can ether buy NPCs or recruit grunts/new players to mine for you. You can also put a limit on how many NPCs can mine, but not limit PCs, making PCs always desirable.

Let’s say your game has NPC guards, they can ether be sent patrolling area leaving your main city with less protection or dispatched to specific areas. You can ether have enough guards to sufficiently patrol all your lands and protect your city or you can recruit grunts/new players to patrol and dispatch guards as needed.

Trick is to not make these duties too boring, but rather somehow factor them in into character advancement.

As long as it is hard to roll untraceable alt, for example your account has “Clan Name” that shared by all of your characters, and you have basic separation of communication channels, for example /everyone, /trusted and /inner council, you remove majority of concerns with spies and turncoats. Next step is to actually design some useful function for grunts/new players – and all the sudden you will be wanted and will have allies, for exchange for your time, in FFA PvP guild.

[sinij]

A more guided leveling process (you're pretty much left with your dick in your hand as a level 10 newb in SB. And not only does the game not tell you where to go, but it's ugly and boring as shit when you get there anyways. The copy and paste, bland treadmill is not "accessible"). A little fool proof character building would help as well (fool proof that is....not dumbed down necessarily).

I think any game should focus on its strength, PvP in this case, and make anything else optional, PvE in this case. Training halls (while AFK) until you are done should be norm and available (but not necessary easy to obtain or readily available) to everyone, now if you want to PvE to level you should have that option as well. You should also advance from PvPing, even if its just trying to fight back and still getting PKed.

[stray]

Well yeah...

If it was up to me, there'd be no leveling at all. No PvP game should ever have PvP. Ever (did I say "ever" already?).

But seeing as that's not going to happen in an mmorpg, then they should at least try to not make it suck so bad.

[sinij]

No PvP game should ever have PvP. Ever.

Sadly your typo is mostly how things are, right now you hardly get to PvP even in PvP games. Lets hope it will change :)

[Ironwood]

Text in green for sarcasm? Doesn't that defeat half the point of sarcasm?

Possibly.  But it avoids a lot of fights and misunderstandings.