Spidey 3: Raimi Not Sold on Venom

[Morfiend]

I just thought you guys would like this, since I know a lot of people didnt think Venom should have been in the movie. Seems Raimi didnt ether. He had to be "persuaded" by the producer to include him.

January 10, 2007 - Although director Sam Raimi had to be persuaded by producer Avi Arad to include Venom in Spider-Man 3, the director appears content with the decision. Topher Grace plays Eddie Brock, a.k.a. Venom, in the film opposite Tobey Maguire as Spidey. Thomas Haden Church co-stars as another foe, the Sandman.

"I pretty much enjoyed what [screenwriter] Alvin Sargent did with the writing of [Venom] and what Topher did with the performance of the character, but I'm still kind of waiting," Raimi told WizardUniverse.com. "Maybe when the movie is complete I'll have the fullest understanding of Venom, but I'm still waiting for a little more to come in on him."

[Ironwood]

Er, The Director is still waiting to understand the character ?


That doesn't bode well.

[eldaec]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a diplomatic way to reach out to people who post messages to forums that just say....

'Fuck Venom'.

...and to reassure such people that Venom isn't really the focus of the film. It's still all about the angst.

'omfg I  Venom'-types won't even notice the comment. Because most of them can't read.

Dog whistle marketing.

[Ironwood]

Hey !  I resemble that remark !

[Llava]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a diplomatic way to reach out to people who post messages to forums that just say....

'Fuck Venom'.

I am 99% positive that, if they even know about this, they don't give a fuck.

[stray]

You underestimate Venom hate.

[eldaec]

They (Sony) might not care, but Raimi is enough of a geek to care.

[Ironwood]

He's just doing what Bendis did :  The difference being that Raimi didn't flat out state that he refused to touch Venom on his new project because Venom was Stupid and even laughed when discussing the possibility or writing Carnage.

Look at what Ultimate Spider-man has become since then.  They redid the fucking Clone Sage for fucks sake.  THE CLONE SAGA.

[stray]

Ultimate Spidey's Venom isn't too bad imo.

[Murgos]

Frankly, I don't care which characters Raimi puts in Spidey III I have faith in his ability to make it an enjoyable and entertaining film.

In other news:  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434020/

[stray]

I thought Bruce Campbell already said he isn't doing that?

In other news though, he is going to make a "Bubba Nosferatu". Haha.

[Ironwood]

Ultimate Spidey's Venom isn't too bad imo.

Indeed.  But that's not the point.  Ultimate Carnage WAS, making Venom a gateway drug.  The Clone Sage stuff is actually an offense against the readers intelligence (as per the old Clone Saga).  And my point is that Bendis stated flat out that it was stupid and he wouldn't do it.

Artistic integrity for teh win.

Yes, I'm raging against the machine again.  Leave me alone, it's a mid-life crisis.

[Sky]

The idea of Topher as Eddie Brock is pretty funny. Unless he's gone on the 'roids since I last saw him.

Then again, I stopped reading Spidey back in 1990 or so, Larson was drawing then.

[Ironwood]

The trailer looked good.  I think it will be a good film.  I think they might even handle Venom properly, as he was when first introduced to the comics.

But, to me, that's not the point.  To some, of course, it's the only point.

:D

[stray]

Then again, I stopped reading Spidey back in 1990 or so, Larson was drawing then.

Hmm, yeah, Eddie has many artistic incarnations. In Ultimate Spider-Man, for instance, he's a slightly older college age kid to Peter's highschool kid. He's not even a reporter, but a science geek like Parker (who has ties to Parker's family as well). He lost his parents as well, so he's kind of similar to Pete in some respect.

[Ironwood]

Indeed.  It was a 'but for the Grace of being a nice Chap, goes Peter' storyline in Ultimate, which made it more interesting.

[tazelbain]

How does a AAA director like Raimi get strong-armed into putting in a character he doesn't what?  Isn't this a sign that Spiderman is heading the way Batman. I was hoping to get a few more good ones in before they started running it into the ground for chump change.

[HaemishM]

No matter how big the director is, unless he can personally finance the film, a la Lucas, AND owns the characters, he's still going to have to bow to the producer's whims. Especially when that producer is part of the business apparatus that owns the character's trademarks lock, stock and barrel. Those are the people who decide what villains can be seen, what costume style the character is in, etc. So long as the director agrees with the producer, things are all good. When the producer is a fuckhead and doesn't listen to the director at all, you get the theatrical release of Daredevil.

As for Bendis, he's a whore. An unmitigated media whore who left all his good writing behind about five years ago in favor of quick sales gimmick stories and useless dialogue. Anyone who's read New Avengers or House of M would realize he has no shame left.

Oh and Fuck Venom.

[Sky]

How does a AAA director like Raimi get strong-armed into putting in a character he doesn't what?  Isn't this a sign that Spiderman is heading the way Batman. I was hoping to get a few more good ones in before they started running it into the ground for chump change.

Er..huh? The last Batman was the only one I liked. The others were ridiculous. Though I'll grant you they got mroe ridiculous over time.

The sign Spiderman will start to crap out is no more Raimi after this one. The last X-Men was pretty meh without their original director.

[Ironwood]

X-Men III sucked the sweat of a dead lepers balls.

And I think he was talking about the 'original' run of Batman movies.  Anyone saying anything bad about the new Bale one is on teh drugz.

[tazelbain]

Yep.

[Sky]

And I think he was talking about the 'original' run of Batman movies. 

Oh! Those ROCK!

[shiznitz]

X-Men III sucked the sweat of a dead lepers balls.

I thought it was comparable in enjoyment to the other films. Yes, the final battle was too Hollywood but whatever.

[Ironwood]

Being a subjective thing, we could argue all night about how wrong you are.

[Big Gulp]

I thought it was comparable in enjoyment to the other films. Yes, the final battle was too Hollywood but whatever.

No, no it wasn't.  Remember how many characters got killed off in that movie?  Now a competent director would be able to squeeze some pathos out of seeing characters we've followed in the comic books and over the past two movies bite the dust.  Not Ratner, I remember just thinking, "Oh, professor X is dead.  Oh, Jean Grey is dead."  Completely flat.

And then we come to the end battle, in which Magneto essentially winds up defeating himself.  For a guy who's a genius on par with Professor X he's apparently really fucking stupid.  For instance, he realizes right away that he can't effect the plastic darts so he sends in the cannon fodder whose only purpose is to provide a cheapass set-piece battle where they all get slaughtered before one mutant in Magneto's employ takes care of the situation.  Again, why send in the cannon fodder in the first place when Magneto is supposedly the self-ascribed "protector of mutant kind"?  Because we needed a big battle.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Ratner is a McMovie director plain and simple.  He's brought in because he doesn't cause problems for the studios and can put a movie in the can.  Of course, it won't be a good movie, but hey, the studios will make their money back.

[stray]

X3 was a piece of shit. Not even worth a second viewing.

[Velorath]

I thought the whole X-men movie series was average at best with a handful of really good parts (like the attack on the mansion, and Nightcrawler's attack on the White House in X2).  Sabretooth, Toad, a machine that turns people into mutants with Magneto trying to use Rogue to power it... somehow, Stryker, Lady Deathstrike, Styrker using Mastermind who in turn uses Prof. X and Cerebro to try to kill all the mutants...  does anyone really think that this was some stellar series of movies up until the point that X3 just fucked everything up?  If you collected all the great scenes from all 3 movies you might have enough to put together one good movie.

[stray]

X1 took a bit to grow on me, but I thought X2 was great.

[Velorath]

X1 took a bit to grow on me, but I thought X2 was great.

The bad guys' evil plots sucked in both of them, as did the majority of the villains themselves.  Like I said, they had some great scenes.  It was a huge step forward for doing superhero movies that don't look cheesy which is an especially big accomplishment given that it had to get a whole team of characters and their powers looking good on screen.  That said the overall plots of the movies were pretty crappy.  There's a lot of eye candy and some cool characters, but as a narrative, they're almost complete garbage.

[Llava]

They (Sony) might not care, but Raimi is enough of a geek to care.

Sony definitely doesn't care.

Which is my point.  There's no way they put Raimi up to this to try to appeal to the Venom haters.

I need that image of George Lucas saying "Shut up, Internet! You don't matter!"

[HaemishM]

X1 took a bit to grow on me, but I thought X2 was great.

The bad guys' evil plots sucked in both of them, as did the majority of the villains themselves. 

I thought they were decent enough. They had just enough psuedo-science that made no sense to appear sci-fiy and comc-y to the average idiot without talking down to him, and they had high enough stakes that it spurred the main characters into action. It certainly made more sense than Star Wars Episode 1 - 3. But then I liked X3, so what do I know?

[Ironwood]

You...You...You.  You what ?

[HaemishM]

We've had this discussion before. I liked X3. Not as good as the other 2, but not the travesty people make it out to be. I also liked Superman Returns, though it could have been better.

[Ironwood]

I must have blanked it out of my mind.

Anyway, what were we talking about ?

[Merusk]

How much cleavage Mary Jane will be exposing in this outing.