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Samwise
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Reply #35 on: January 10, 2007, 09:45:59 PM

You're assuming that anyone cares.  I just can't envision anyone other than a few desperate Diablo fans playing this thing for more than a few hours.  I played it for a few minutes and I was done.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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Reply #36 on: January 10, 2007, 09:49:45 PM

More like Boring Derivative Trash: London, amirite?
geldonyetich
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Reply #37 on: January 10, 2007, 09:56:20 PM

Quote from: CmdrSlack
If they really are making it pay to play multiplayer (at least for online play), I'm willing to bet that they won't make it possible to run it on a LAN out of the box.
Not that many games do seem to run on LAN anymore.  Are LAN parties official passe' now, or what?

You're assuming that anyone cares.  I just can't envision anyone other than a few desperate Diablo fans playing this thing for more than a few hours.  I played it for a few minutes and I was done.
More like Boring Derivative Trash: London, amirite?

Is it really that bad?
I had hopes for this one.
(But then, I have hopes for Vanguard.)

Samwise
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Reply #38 on: January 10, 2007, 11:14:46 PM

Not that many games do seem to run on LAN anymore.

I hadn't noticed that at all.  Can you rattle off any examples?  (Anything centrally-hosted, like an MMO, doesn't count for obvious reasons.)

Quote
Is it really that bad?
I had hopes for this one.
(But then, I have hopes for Vanguard.)

The court rests. 

Here's my one-line review of Hellgate:

It's Serious Sam with shitty graphics, shitty maps, no personality, and upgradeable weapons that fire in cones so that you don't have to work too hard to hit things. 

That's it.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
geldonyetich
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Reply #39 on: January 11, 2007, 12:10:20 AM

Not that many games do seem to run on LAN anymore.
I hadn't noticed that at all.  Can you rattle off any examples?  (Anything centrally-hosted, like an MMO, doesn't count for obvious reasons.)
Well, a friend of mine went through the motions of arranging LAN parties a couple times in the recent past, and we had a hard time finding any recent games that had good LAN support.  These days, it seems that a lot of games jump straight to Internet matchmaking without the Local Area Network option. 

You want examples, but I really should hit the sack right now.  Maybe you could point out some recently released big name games that have LAN support?  I suspect the difficulty in finding them may establish my point.  (Either that, or the ease of finding them will set me straight.)

Samwise
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Reply #40 on: January 11, 2007, 12:35:47 AM

You want examples, but I really should hit the sack right now.

So wait... you were helping your friend plan this LAN party, and you looked at some game called X.  In fact, "lots of games," called X, Y, and Z.  And you learned that none of these games supported LAN play.  But either you don't remember any of X, Y, or Z, or their names are so long that it would have actually pushed back your bedtime were you to type out the name of even one of them.  Do I have that right?   wink

Maybe you could point out some recently released big name games that have LAN support?

Unfortunately, I don't own any recently released big name games, which is why I asked the question.  As far as less recently released big name games go, though, Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 both have a LAN option.  And I honestly can't imagine why any game that has player-hosted servers would remove that functionality, since connecting over a LAN is really not that different from connecting over the Interblag.  Heck, even if there wasn't a tab explicitly marked "LAN" in the server browser, you could still get to a LAN server via the same mechanism that you use to connect to a more remote server. 

Which is why I'm really curious what these games are that don't support LAN play: if it's true I bet there's an interesting story behind it, and I would like to investigate further.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Ironwood
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Reply #41 on: January 11, 2007, 02:31:46 AM

I can't believe even Ironwood said "boaby."

Ick.


With around 10 Scottish at last count, I'm appealing to a wider audience.  Further, though Samwise's Universal Translator has it right, I was using the word as the shortened version of 'boaby-kite' which is Strathclyde Rhyming-slang for, well, you get the picture.

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Wolf
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Reply #42 on: January 11, 2007, 05:30:27 AM

Dawn of War: Dark Crusade and Comapny of Heroes both had lan. Marvel Ultimate: Allaince didn't. IIRC the new NFS didn't either. Let's put it this way - pc only games do, multiplatform, mainly console games, don't. I rock at generalizations :)

As a matter of fact I swallowed one of these about two hours ago and the explanation is that it is, in fact, my hand.
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Reply #43 on: January 11, 2007, 06:56:24 AM

'boaby-kite' which is Strathclyde Rhyming-slang for, well, you get the picture.

Sorry, I don't get it.  My ancestors were Scots (or English, depending on stubbornness); I grew up in Alabama.

My disappointment in Hellgate is exactly that: disappointment.  There isn't any way I can convince myself this is Spiritual Diablo 3 right now, and I am forced to wait on Actual Diablo 3.  I would not mind paying for AD3, as I shall now call it, but right now it's not looking too good.  Arena.net fooled me already with Guild Bores.

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Ironwood
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Reply #44 on: January 11, 2007, 07:04:18 AM

Shite.

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Reply #45 on: January 11, 2007, 07:11:04 AM

...

Bugger?

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

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Reply #46 on: January 11, 2007, 09:42:39 AM

Dawn of War: Dark Crusade and Comapny of Heroes both had lan. Marvel Ultimate: Allaince didn't. IIRC the new NFS didn't either. Let's put it this way - pc only games do, multiplatform, mainly console games, don't. I rock at generalizations :)

I don't think I've ever even heard of any of those.   undecided  I could certainly believe that slapdash console->PC ports might be lacking basic functionality, but who'd want to play those at a LAN party (or anywhere, really) anyway?

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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Reply #47 on: January 11, 2007, 11:14:41 AM

Huh? MUA would rock a LAN.
geldonyetich
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Reply #48 on: January 11, 2007, 11:52:22 AM

There's a lot more games these days that don't have LAN support than back in the days of StarCraft.  For example, try finding LAN support in Neverwinter Nights 2.  Half-Life 2 was mentioned - it does indeed support LAN, but you can't even launch the game without an Internet connection, thanks to Steam.

Still, if Company of Heroes has LAN support, maybe the days of LAN parties are not over entirely.

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Reply #49 on: January 11, 2007, 12:02:36 PM

Internet killed the LAN star.

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Reply #50 on: January 11, 2007, 12:20:04 PM

Internet killed the LAN star.

Broadband is probably the culprit.

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Samwise
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Reply #51 on: January 11, 2007, 12:25:23 PM

For example, try finding LAN support in Neverwinter Nights 2.

I don't have the game, but according to zee Interweb, it's there.

Quote
Half-Life 2 was mentioned - it does indeed support LAN, but you can't even launch the game without an Internet connection, thanks to Steam.

I don't think I've ever been to a LAN party that didn't have Internet access (they've all been at someone's house, dorm, or fraternity), but yes you can -- start Steam in offline mode.  

Google-fu FTW!

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
geldonyetich
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Reply #52 on: January 11, 2007, 12:34:27 PM

For example, try finding LAN support in Neverwinter Nights 2.
I don't have the game, but according to zee Interweb, it's there.
You're right.  I was mislead because the very frist thing it has you do is log into Bioware's server.  Then, on the next page, you have an option for LAN play.  Seeing how this is how Half-Life 2 does it as well, it must be some kind of proactive anti-piracy measure.

geldonyetich
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Reply #53 on: January 11, 2007, 12:35:10 PM

Oh, and I had steam running in off line mode and it refused to allow me to launch Half-Life 2 Deathmatch.

Samwise
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Reply #54 on: January 11, 2007, 02:02:58 PM

Oh, and I had steam running in off line mode and it refused to allow me to launch Half-Life 2 Deathmatch.

What did Valve tech support tell you to do to fix it?

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Ironwood
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Reply #55 on: January 11, 2007, 02:32:10 PM

Reboot.

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Samwise
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Reply #56 on: January 11, 2007, 03:12:07 PM

My assumption is that Geld was trying to play a game he hadn't downloaded yet.  If he'd contacted support, they would have told him that (or they would have checked that angle out and disproved it), but I'm guessing he didn't try contacting them.

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Trippy
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Reply #57 on: January 11, 2007, 03:24:33 PM

For example, try finding LAN support in Neverwinter Nights 2.

I don't have the game, but according to zee Interweb, it's there.
Quote
Half-Life 2 was mentioned - it does indeed support LAN, but you can't even launch the game without an Internet connection, thanks to Steam.
I don't think I've ever been to a LAN party that didn't have Internet access (they've all been at someone's house, dorm, or fraternity), but yes you can -- start Steam in offline mode.  

Google-fu FTW!
You can not use offline mode and play on a LAN if the LAN is connected to the Internet. The nanosecond Steam detects a connection to the Internet it turns off offline mode. You also need to be connected to the Internet to turn on offline mode. Yes it's a paradox.
geldonyetich
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Reply #58 on: January 11, 2007, 03:42:00 PM

Wierd stuff - when I tried this morning to launch Half Life 2 Deathmatch while Steam was running in Offline mode, it wouldn't.  It popped up a message saying that I had to be connected to steam to launch it.  Tried again just now, it didn't.

Ah well.  I still think that LAN support is more rare than it used to be.  There exist a plethora more games these days that support Internet play but not LAN play, for some strange reason or anther.  It's a belabored point by now.

Samwise
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Reply #59 on: January 11, 2007, 05:57:59 PM

You also need to be connected to the Internet to turn on offline mode. Yes it's a paradox.

I've heard that, but the article I linked seems to contradict it -- maybe that was an old Steam bug that has since been fixed?  According to the article, your game needs to be up to date (i.e. you can't play a half-downloaded game -- seems reasonable), but no other special preparation is really necessary -- you just tell Steam to start in offline mode when you're offline.  If your LAN is connected to the Internet it's a moot point anyway since then everything would just work as normal.

I'm just not seeing the grand conspiracy against the LAN party that's being posited.


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Trippy
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Reply #60 on: January 11, 2007, 06:41:20 PM

You also need to be connected to the Internet to turn on offline mode. Yes it's a paradox.
I've heard that, but the article I linked seems to contradict it -- maybe that was an old Steam bug that has since been fixed?  According to the article, your game needs to be up to date (i.e. you can't play a half-downloaded game -- seems reasonable), but no other special preparation is really necessary -- you just tell Steam to start in offline mode when you're offline.  If your LAN is connected to the Internet it's a moot point anyway since then everything would just work as normal.

I'm just not seeing the grand conspiracy against the LAN party that's being posited.
Look at it a little more carefully:

Quote
Start Steam online - make sure the "Remember my password" box on the login window is checked
I.e. you have to be connected to Steam first to enable offline mode. If you forget to do this before disconnecting your computer or laptop you are fucked. This is what happened when the power went out in Washington. No offline mode for j000!

Quote
Exit Steam and disconnect your computer from the internet or disable your internet connection.
I.e. if Steam detects even the faintest whiff of an Internet connection it will disable offline mode.

Quote
MAKE SURE THIS IS TAKEN CARE OF BEFORE YOU COME TO A LAN PARTY OR OTHER SHINDIGS!!!
I.e. once again if you forget to set offline mode before coming to the LAN party you are fucked.

Edit: look at it dangit
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 06:55:44 PM by Trippy »
Samwise
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Reply #61 on: January 11, 2007, 06:53:05 PM

Quote
Quote
Start Steam online - make sure the "Remember my password" box on the login window is checked
I.e. you have to be connected to Steam first to enable offline mode. If you forget to do this before disconnecting your computer or laptop you are fucked. This is what happened when the power went out in Washington. No offline mode for j000!

Pretty sure that option is checked by default.  I know I have it on.

Quote
Quote
Exit Steam and disconnect your computer from the internet or disable your internet connection.
I.e. if Steam detects even the faintest whiff of an Internet connection it will disable offline mode.

That was definitely an issue when the Valve servers went down that one time (though still by no means insurmountable), but in the situation being posited (a LAN party in Antarctica), it wouldn't be relevant at all.

I'm not arguing that the offline mode thing won't potentially be a pain in the ass under certain circumstances that I have yet to encounter, just that there's no massive conspiracy to prevent LAN parties from occurring.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Trippy
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Reply #62 on: January 11, 2007, 07:02:57 PM

Quote
Quote
Start Steam online - make sure the "Remember my password" box on the login window is checked
I.e. you have to be connected to Steam first to enable offline mode. If you forget to do this before disconnecting your computer or laptop you are fucked. This is what happened when the power went out in Washington. No offline mode for j000!
Pretty sure that option is checked by default.  I know I have it on.
The password part is just part of it. You still have to explicitly go into offline mode. In other words, even if the "Remember my password" box is checked if you simply disconnect your box and try to play in offline mode it won't work.

Quote
Quote
Quote
Exit Steam and disconnect your computer from the internet or disable your internet connection.
I.e. if Steam detects even the faintest whiff of an Internet connection it will disable offline mode.
That was definitely an issue when the Valve servers went down that one time (though still by no means insurmountable), but in the situation being posited (a LAN party in Antarctica), it wouldn't be relevant at all.

I'm not arguing that the offline mode thing won't potentially be a pain in the ass under certain circumstances that I have yet to encounter, just that there's no massive conspiracy to prevent LAN parties from occurring.
You are correct, they aren't targeting LAN parties specifically -- it's just a general thing where Valve wants to watch you play at all times and to force you to authorize everytime you play (like needing a CD in the disc drive) and they make it almost as hard as humanly possible (having to edit the registry would be worse) to keep Steam from doing that.
Samwise
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Reply #63 on: January 11, 2007, 07:22:54 PM

The password part is just part of it. You still have to explicitly go into offline mode. In other words, even if the "Remember my password" box is checked if you simply disconnect your box and try to play in offline mode it won't work.

Are you sure?  According to the article, all you need to do is close Steam and start it again in offline mode (after you've disconnected, not before).  I'll have to test it out when I get home.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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Reply #64 on: January 11, 2007, 08:02:30 PM

The password part is just part of it. You still have to explicitly go into offline mode. In other words, even if the "Remember my password" box is checked if you simply disconnect your box and try to play in offline mode it won't work.
Are you sure?  According to the article, all you need to do is close Steam and start it again in offline mode (after you've disconnected, not before).  I'll have to test it out when I get home.
No I'm not sure. I got rid of all that crap after I finished single-player HL2 (which I didn't directly pay for since I got it from the coupon that came with my video card). Looking at the support page on Steam it looks like it has changed since there's no longer reference to all the crap about fiddling with up your clientregistry.blob file so it may be easier now than it was when I was playing and apparently there was a patch sometime in 2005 where if you hit Cancel while Steam is loading it'll give you an option for playing in offline mode. I'm not sure if that means you can still be connected to the Internet and be in offline mode but for some reason I doubt that will work.
Samwise
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Reply #65 on: January 11, 2007, 08:48:51 PM

Okay, I just ran the experiment.  Here's what I did:

1) Disabled my network connections, right off the bat.  To make sure this was as fair a test as possible, I didn't so much as look at Steam before cutting off its link to the outside world, much less give it a chance to get ready.  Verified that my interwebs were really and truly dead (they were).

2) Opened up my running Steam window, tried to fire up Counter-Strike.  It worked (I actually hadn't expected this)!  I started a game with some bots and putzed around a bit with no problems.

3) Closed Steam.

4) Restarted Steam.  This time there was a minor hangup -- I got a dialog warning me that there was no Internet connection, and did I want to start in Offline mode?  I said yes.  This one extra mouse-click was the most difficult part of the exercise.

5) Fired up Counter-Strike.  It still worked.  The Internet tab had a friendly message telling me that I was in Offline mode and wouldn't be able to join any Internet games until I reestablished my network connection and restarted Steam in online mode.  The Lan tab had no such message (it told me, correctly, that there were no game servers on my local network; I take on faith at this point that if I did and I'd reenabled my LAN connection, they'd show up there.)

6) Just in case CS was especially up to date because I'd played it recently, I tried Half-Life 2, which I haven't played in months and months.  It came up without a complaint.

So much for teh ebil Valve not letting you play your single player games when your Net connection goes down without warning, eh?   tongue

I couldn't find an option in the Steam GUI to enable offline mode when you're not actually offline, but I'm also not sure why you'd need to.  However, as this experiment proved, simple enough workaround if you're hung up on privacy and want to be in offline mode all the time: disable your net connection (simple as a right-click in the systray on Windows), fire up Steam, let it start in offline mode, and re-enable the net connection (Steam won't try it again until you exit and restart).  You could probably get similar results by using security software to selectively deny steam.exe any access to the network.

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Ironwood
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Reply #66 on: January 12, 2007, 01:28:55 AM

I took back my annoyance at Steam a while ago. Paying for Chapter 2, downloading it and playing it all in one go without disturbing teh Elena ruled.

However, you have to agree that when it launched it was a fiddly and annoying piece of shit, especially for people in a Third World Country like Scotland.

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Reply #67 on: January 12, 2007, 08:41:15 AM

Damn savages.

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Samwise
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Reply #68 on: January 12, 2007, 09:16:45 AM

However, you have to agree that when it launched it was a fiddly and annoying piece of shit, especially for people in a Third World Country like Scotland.

I didn't have any problems with it myself, but I'm willing to take others' word for it that it was a pain in the ass; that just doesn't have any bearing in a discussion on the current state of support for LAN-only play.  If anything, the fact that it's gotten better over the past couple of years should indicate that games are getting more LAN-friendly, not less, rite?

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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Reply #69 on: January 22, 2007, 12:54:55 PM

Quote from: Bill Roper
... while we are still finalizing the commercial and game aspects of our online plans, we can tell players that there will definitely be significant free online play.

...we’ve created a complete single player experience whose longevity of game play benefits from all of the randomization, rarity and customization you’d expect from us.

Stolen from Gamasutra.

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