What is community relations?

[lamaros]

You may have some interesting things to say about games, but the sort of masturbation you've dropped on us thus far isn't really in the style of F13. It's more the type of shit you'd overhear at Terra Nova Avenue or Bruce Woodcock Lane or HRose's Engrish Emporium.

Well then, I suppose I chose the wrong community, and I will be leaving. So long, and thanks for all the fish.

I want to punch you in the face.

[Signe]

I miss Morgan.   

[Xilren's Twin]

Representation isn't definition. Brands represent the sum of the experiences of the people who interacted with them. What is perception? ...
...
I want people to feel good about their decisions, about their purchases, and I want them to know they are getting something truly of genuine value in return for their hard-earned money. Community relations can do this, and the opportunities are there.

You know, one of my biggest pet peeves when dealing with certain upper management types in my company and others is they have totally no idea how to communicate other than in business jargon, so they end of spouting off about "value added" , the dread word "synergy" (which both Trippy and Lum just had to say to tork me off  ), and talking about "empowerment" (which you used twice you bastard).  Rectal cranial inversion by over analysis and fluff speak.  You speak like the Pointy Haired Boss, and that's not a good thing.  I swear the next time one of our directors says in a meeting, "remember, we don't sell products, we sell value" im going to throw a Swingline stapler at him.  What's the value of a product that doesn't work again?  Oh yeah... Next time dont skimp on the QA wordsmith...

Is good CM useful?  Of course.  But until we get at least 5+ more years into the market where any new game can be assumed to be stable, relatively bug free, and feature complete because the market wont bear anything less, it's is of FAR FAR lesser importance than just getting a good design that actually implemented well.  Just look at the impending train wreck that is Vanguard.  The game's not even close to being done: classes missing, tons of bugs, missing content and major game system overhauls and introduction when just weeks from release.  It's going to do very poorly compared to the current market leader, and no amount of marketing, PR, CR, or CM is going to change that.  The people who had a good experience with the "EQ brand", or the "Game by Brad Brand", or even the "SOE Brand" are not going to say, "we've read, heard, seen with our own eyes the problems with the game, but damn that Abashi is a sweet talking devil who has added value to our constant server crashes!  Why just look at how much fun we have bitching about it on the Vault site, now with exclusive screenshots.  Sign me up for another 5 years!"

Now, I will say one positive thing about branding.  We WILL see the market start to show signs up branding when the concepts of the SOE station pass, or NCSoft multipass, or Turbine Taffypass are common.  One set monthly price for a suite of games to choose from.  However, i still dont think it will have nearly the impact of markets like automobiles, consumer products, and the like.

Damn, he left didnt he...

[sinij]

Brands represent the experiences of every person who has interacted with the brands since its inception.

Kill me.

Holy shit, I just get to read this train wreck.  WUA, Morgan just took your spot on my "people I hate" list, sorry you are just nowhere nearly as annoying, so you are free to go.

Marketing (and all tools of the trade associated with it, like branding) exist for one purpose - to get consumer (aka sucker) to buy product (aka useless shit). If we lived in a world where fairly priced quality products were made and consumed in a socially responsible manner there would be no need for marketing.

Now there is a difference in knowing what you do and why and believing in fairy tales that you create as part of your job, Morgan clearly crossed that line waaaay into nutjob territory.

Oh, Morgan, welcome to F13 and fuck you, don't come back you cock sucking cunt.

[Engels]

The sad part is that he wasn't particularly ill-mannered, just brainwashed by his own crazed and mostly imagined business world. For his own spiritual salvation, I hope he gets kicked out of more places.

The sad truth is that he'll probably land a cush job in marketing somewhere, earn a bazillion dollars, and one day forget to tip WUA at the Starbucks counter 

[Cheddar]

Morgan.  If you want to spout your ideas, one rule is do not refute the experts.  Cal is one of the TOP CSR's out there; you cannot refute anything he says.  Period.  He is the pinnacle of how it should be.  I told you to stop it.  Why did you not believe me?

Do not leave.  Step back, take a nap, post an apology, toss a e-mail to Grim, and then come back here and join us. 

[sinij]

This place is circling the drain, what next we let SirBruce back? Back in my day if you taunt happy fun ball you get gone and stay gone.

[Cheddar]

This place is circling the drain, what next we let SirBruce back? Back in my day if you taunt happy fun ball you get gone and stay gone.

You have been a good boy and even virtually hugged WUN.  Hush.

[Trouble]

To the people that knew Morgan prior to this, what things of value has he said or done before that earned your respect? I'm curious because I and I think the majority of people here have only seen jargon filled posts that have very little actual content to them.

[Cheddar]

To the people that knew Morgan prior to this, what things of value has he said or done before that earned your respect? I'm curious because I and I think the majority of people here have only seen jargon filled posts that have very little actual content to them.

It came from Grimwell, which was shit.  So does not matter.

[geldonyetich]

Morgan is this guy, not SirBruce. 

He first showed up on Grimwell's and immediately managed to rub me the wrong way as well.  Basically, Morgan's is God's gift to poor lost gamers looking to learn how the industry is like.  That's good unless you don't regard yourself as a poor, lost gamer, in which case he comes off as super condescending and surprisingly unwilling to hear anything you have to say.

But I may be slandering him a bit overmuch.  I am limited to just one perspective, after all, and am about as empathic as a rock sometimes.

[Lum]

Marketing (and all tools of the trade associated with it, like branding) exist for one purpose - to get consumer (aka sucker) to buy product (aka useless shit). If we lived in a world where fairly priced quality products were made and consumed in a socially responsible manner there would be no need for marketing.

Sinij, aren't you from the ex-USSR? A place with no marketing. Funny, that's one of the first things they added when they were free to.

Marketing by itself isn't necessarily evil. People like to know what options they have. Reviews are a form of marketing (which is why most game companies send out review copies gratis to media outlets).

[CmdrSlack]

To the people that knew Morgan prior to this, what things of value has he said or done before that earned your respect? I'm curious because I and I think the majority of people here have only seen jargon filled posts that have very little actual content to them.

I've talked to him a bunch.  He's a guy who really believes in what he says.  I have no idea if what he says is correct given "how it should be" with marketing because, well, I know fuckall about marketing.  I really don't think about people in the "justify your existence" sense.  We've had cool discussions about random BS.  He's not a douche, dickhead or jagoff.  That's good enough for me.

Morgan is this guy, not SirBruce. 

He first showed up on Grimwell's and immediately managed to rub me the wrong way as well.  Basically, Morgan's is God's gift to poor lost gamers looking to learn how the industry is like.  That's good unless you don't regard yourself as a poor, lost gamer, in which case he comes off as super condescending and surprisingly unwilling to hear anything you have to say.

But I may be slandering him a bit overmuch.  I am limited to just one perspective, after all, and am about as empathic as a rock sometimes.

So will you be discussing him in your upcoming book, "Treason 2:  Doomcast Boogaloo"?

[geldonyetich]

So will you be discussing him in your upcoming book, "Treason 2:  Doomcast Boogaloo"?

Just for that, you're getting a signed copy.

[sinij]

one of the first things they added when they were free to

Its like saying amazon tribes added theft after meeting with first explorers and getting mirrors and beads as gifts 'when there were free to'.

[WindupAtheist]

If he didn't want to get eaten alive, he needed to come in here "switched off" and just talk.  As it was, he came in here spewing jargon and got the entire forum riled up against him.

I mean look, I've been on other forums where guys with science and engineering degrees were throwing around heavy terminology the average person isn't familiar with.  Nobody rose up and threw them off the board.

Why?  Because being a layman isn't the same as being stupid.  We can tell the difference between jargon used to quickly communicate complex ideas, and bullshit used to complicate things for the sake of making them sound more important.

So yeah, much as I've flamed you Morgan, go ahead and come back.

Just talk like a god damned human being if you do.

[Trippy]

I've talked to him a bunch.  He's a guy who really believes in what he says.  I have no idea if what he says is correct given "how it should be" with marketing because, well, I know fuckall about marketing.  I really don't think about people in the "justify your existence" sense.  We've had cool discussions about random BS.  He's not a douche, dickhead or jagoff.  That's good enough for me.

He might believe what he says but his marketing "bio" points to a one page Web site (if you can even call it that) with a PDF that has absolutely no real content at all, making vague mention of artists, organizations and companies that won't even let him use their names as references which is the same vague content in his bio. Really, he's an authority on marketing as much as we are an authority on game design -- i.e. not at all (our wonderful red names excepted) -- but at least we know what we like to play and can (usually) articulate it reasonably well. I mean if the guy had an MBA from a well-known business school and/or worked in marketing, corporate communications or a PR firm I might actually think he sort of knew what he was talking about.

[Yegolev]

This thread made me feel like I am at work.  Yeah, my company makes a product, but it's mostly marketing.  Makes my eyes glaze over after about the tenth made-up marketing word/phrase.  I don't even like going to the IT dept meetings due to this shit.

[Endie]

Anyway, as I was saying, come ahead ya wide-o's, ah'll pure chib the fuckin lot o yeese.

[Ironwood]

I fear we might need to provide some education on this one....

[Soln]

this thread needs more flair

[Sky]

Sexy party vader!

[palmer_eldritch]

I have to take issue with the people who suggested, even very politely, that some of us would have been able to understand what Morgan was saying if we knew more about marketing or, ahem, had been a bit smarter.

I'm not taking offence, but don't tell me you can see the emperor's clothes. He has no clothes. There was simply no meaning in most of Morgan's posts.

Xilren’s Twin:
"Speaking strictly in terms of games, do you consider the "Brand" to be the game itself? the development house? the publisher? what exactly?"

Morgan (in reply):
"Brands represent the experiences of every person who has interacted with the brands since its inception."

Brands represent the experiences of every person who has interacted with the brands . . . there's a problem with his answer.

[Endie]

In marketing, circularity is not a logical fallacy.  It is self-enabling internal synergy.

[Nebu]

In marketing, circularity is not a logical fallacy.  It is self-enabling internal synergy.

If you could have squeezed in the word "dovetail" you would have had a Dilbert comic.

[Ironwood]

I'm more concerned about the lack of Boobs on Sky's women.

[Venkman]

I don't think this thread would have caused nearly as many problems if it wasn't in this particulary sub-forum. Probably more appropriate for the Game Design one (I always link the business of building and selling to the act of designing and developing)?

Otherwise, carry on.

[Tebonas]

Caused problems? We really have mellowed with age, haven't we?

[Roac]

A newbie posted a madlib, but filled with PHB buzzwords in attempt to pretend to be a game CR expert.  He was laughed off the board.  By real experts.  What's the problem?

[Engels]

No, Darniaq, it might have gone on for a bit longer, but the end result would have been the same. An uneducated brown noser spouting marketing jargon in a torrent of meaningless drivel may have attracted a bit less attention on another forum, but f13 has a long tradition of ferriting out exactly this type of tripe.

[Ironwood]

And giving them red names.

[CmdrSlack]

f13 has a long tradition of ferriting out exactly this type of tripe

But not of spelling the word, "ferreting."

I have to take issue with the people who suggested, even very politely, that some of us would have been able to understand what Morgan was saying if we knew more about marketing or, ahem, had been a bit smarter.

I'm not taking offence, but don't tell me you can see the emperor's clothes. He has no clothes. There was simply no meaning in most of Morgan's posts.

Who said you'd be able to understand him if you were smarter?  I'd sure like to see that post.

[WayAbvPar]

But not of spelling the word, "ferreting."

Nice marmot.

[CmdrSlack]

You need to bring back the Jesus.  Or Photoshop the Jesus into the current avatar.

[Arthur_Parker]

I can't believe this reached 4 pages without someone mentioning Veronica Mars.