Pretend you have $$$...

[Trippy]

Update...Going to have to RMA the Creative part back. I thought perhaps this part might do digital 5.1, but to date, NO creative part does. I might try a plain x-fi with the DTS-610, which takes analog 5.1 -> optical 5.1 to the receiver...but the thought of DA/AD conversion bugs me. Not sure it's all worth the hassle to get EAX.

I put the Auzentech X-Plosion in the new box and it's happily converting to optical DD5.1. Once I resolve my Oblivion crash issue, I hope it doesn't develop the waveform noise problem that made me quit playing last year

I thought the Audigy 2 Platnium supports digital 5.1 output.

[Samwise]

So I'm putting together my PC, and the mobo manual indicates that I have to hook up 3 power connectors - a 2x12 (or 2x10), a 2x4, and a 1x4.  It does not at any point say that connecting the 1x4 is optional, but it does say that I should definitely connect the 1x4 if I use a 2x10 in place of the 2x12.

My power supply provides a 2x12, a 2x4, and a 2x2, but not a 1x4.  Is the 1x4 made unnecessary by the 2x12, or should I be trying to find a 2x2->1x4 adapter?

This page suggests (much more clearly than the printed manual does) that the 1x4 is unnecessary, but I would feel a lot better if it came right out and said it with no room for ambiguity.  Especially since there are dire warnings everywhere that hooking up the power inadequately will cause the mobo to assplode.

Hlep!  I r nub!     Someone reassure me plz.

[Sky]

Hmm. Can't help you

Having some serious issues of my own, basically anything 3d is crashing (though it looks omgawesome before it does). I'm starting to get depressed, I've done pretty much everything I can think of to fix it. No 3d games, and 3dmark also crashes, after like a couple minutes or so. I've run a battery of system stress thingies and testers and can't seem to find any problems.

Fuck.

[Engels]

You need either 2x10 + 2x2 or 2x12, not both. I do not recommend plugging in all 3. At all.

[Samwise]

I just realized that the 1x4 connector is just an ordinary molex connector.  Which somehow evaded me because those cables aren't plugged into the PSU yet and therefore weren't sitting there looking me in the face.  *headsmack*  So that's not a problem after all.  I just ignore the 2x2 connector entirely and if I want to connect that 1x4 I plug it in with one of these here cables that came with the PSU.

Engels, is it actually dangerous to plug in more power connectors than are strictly needed?  I'm pretty sure that the 2x12 and 2x4 are where they're supposed to be.  From doing a bit more research online I get the vague sense that the 1x4 is there to provide an auxiliary source of power to the PCIE slots (i.e. for big bad SLI setups).  I'm guessing I could get along without it, but my gut says more power hookups are better.  Is my gut wrong?


(edit) Re: Sky's problem, can you swap out the video card temporarily to see if that's the weak link?  Does it have the latest drivers?  Does the whole system power down, does it BSOD, or does just the app crash?

[Miasma]

Hmm. Can't help you

Having some serious issues of my own, basically anything 3d is crashing (though it looks omgawesome before it does). I'm starting to get depressed, I've done pretty much everything I can think of to fix it. No 3d games, and 3dmark also crashes, after like a couple minutes or so. I've run a battery of system stress thingies and testers and can't seem to find any problems.

Fuck.

This might only apply because I run server 2003 but everytime I rebuild my system I have to go into display->troubleshoot tab and actually turn on the use of 3D by moving the hardware acceleration slider all the way to the right, then I have to go into dxdiag->display tab and also enable direct draw, 3d etc.

[Sky]

I underclocked it and it was able to complete 3dmark tests. Doesn't 9790 sound a bit slow? I clocked it to the factory defaults for a non-KO 8800 GTX (the KO is factory overclocked). I'm bummed, it should be stable at factory clocks. I think another RMA is in my future.

[Viin]

Sure it's not your PSU?

I don't remember what you have, but I find that it's almost always the PSU when heavy graphics cause crashes.

[Samwise]

That's why I'm curious what exactly "crash" means in this context.  If it's an application fault or a BSOD, it's probably a problem with either the card or the driver.  If the whole system reboots, it's probably the PSU.


As for myself, I'm continuing to assemble the beast.  I just now had to remove the motherboard (for the second time) because I discovered that the CPU cooler has a bracket that needs to be lined up UNDER the damn thing, and there was no way in hell of getting that to happen with everything in there.  On the plus side, the third time mounting the board went a lot faster and smoother than the first time, since I now know exactly what bits need to be wiggled to get everything to fit right.   

/sadf

[Trippy]

So I'm putting together my PC, and the mobo manual indicates that I have to hook up 3 power connectors - a 2x12 (or 2x10), a 2x4, and a 1x4.  It does not at any point say that connecting the 1x4 is optional, but it does say that I should definitely connect the 1x4 if I use a 2x10 in place of the 2x12.

My power supply provides a 2x12, a 2x4, and a 2x2, but not a 1x4.  Is the 1x4 made unnecessary by the 2x12, or should I be trying to find a 2x2->1x4 adapter?

This page suggests (much more clearly than the printed manual does) that the 1x4 is unnecessary, but I would feel a lot better if it came right out and said it with no room for ambiguity.  Especially since there are dire warnings everywhere that hooking up the power inadequately will cause the mobo to assplode.

Hlep!  I r nub!     Someone reassure me plz.

Which motherboard do you have? There are motherboards that do require the extra power input but those are typically for server motherboards that are ATX power supply compatible (there's a different power connector standard for normal server motherboards). E.g my Tyan server MB requires it and won't boot up without it.

[Samwise]

So I'm putting together my PC, and the mobo manual indicates that I have to hook up 3 power connectors - a 2x12 (or 2x10), a 2x4, and a 1x4.  It does not at any point say that connecting the 1x4 is optional, but it does say that I should definitely connect the 1x4 if I use a 2x10 in place of the 2x12.

My power supply provides a 2x12, a 2x4, and a 2x2, but not a 1x4.  Is the 1x4 made unnecessary by the 2x12, or should I be trying to find a 2x2->1x4 adapter?

This page suggests (much more clearly than the printed manual does) that the 1x4 is unnecessary, but I would feel a lot better if it came right out and said it with no room for ambiguity.  Especially since there are dire warnings everywhere that hooking up the power inadequately will cause the mobo to assplode.

Hlep!  I r nub!     Someone reassure me plz.

Which motherboard do you have? There are motherboards that do require the extra power input but those are typically for server motherboards that are ATX power supply compatible (there's a different power connector standard for normal server motherboards). E.g my Tyan server MB requires it and won't boot up without it.

The Intel D975XBX2.

[Trippy]

Engels, is it actually dangerous to plug in more power connectors than are strictly needed?  I'm pretty sure that the 2x12 and 2x4 are where they're supposed to be.  From doing a bit more research online I get the vague sense that the 1x4 is there to provide an auxiliary source of power to the PCIE slots (i.e. for big bad SLI setups).  I'm guessing I could get along without it, but my gut says more power hookups are better.  Is my gut wrong?

More power hookups may or may not be better. E.g. the molex power connector supplies 12V and 5V but if the extra connector on the motherboard wants, say, 3.3V it would be a very bad idea to plug that molex connector in there.

[Sky]

I wouldn't think it's the PSU unless that's faulty as well, it should be able to handle this gpu spec-wise, with 49 amps on the 12V.

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817703005

By crash I mean the screen locks up and the system becomes completely unresponsive. No graphical anomalies, just the last frame it rendered before locking up.

Played FEAR for a few with all the options maxed out, even at stock GTX speeds, it's a damned nice card.

[Trippy]

The Intel D975XBX2.

If your power supply has a 2x12 connector don't bother with the Molex 1x4. If it's a 2x10 connector and your video card has it's own aux power input you still shouldn't bother with the Molex 1x4 unless the card isn't running stable and then you can try it.

[Samwise]

The Intel D975XBX2.

If your power supply has a 2x12 connector don't bother with the Molex 1x4. If it's a 2x10 connector and your video card has it's own aux power input you still shouldn't bother with the Molex 1x4 unless the card isn't running stable and then you can try it.

OK.  That's pretty much what I've been inferring from the Interwebs but none of the official material comes out and says it explicitly.     Thanks!

[Trippy]

The Intel D975XBX2.

If your power supply has a 2x12 connector don't bother with the Molex 1x4. If it's a 2x10 connector and your video card has it's own aux power input you still shouldn't bother with the Molex 1x4 unless the card isn't running stable and then you can try it.

OK.  That's pretty much what I've been inferring from the Interwebs but none of the official material comes out and says it explicitly.     Thanks!

It does say that:

The 2x12 main power connector on the desktop board is backwards compatible with
ATX12V power supplies with 2x10 power connectors. Use of the 1x4 power connector
is required with ATX12V power supplies with 2x10 connectors when using PCI Express
cards that can consume up to 75 W. Figure 28 shows the location of the power
connectors.

[Trippy]

I wouldn't think it's the PSU unless that's faulty as well, it should be able to handle this gpu spec-wise, with 49 amps on the 12V.

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817703005

By crash I mean the screen locks up and the system becomes completely unresponsive. No graphical anomalies, just the last frame it rendered before locking up.

Played FEAR for a few with all the options maxed out, even at stock GTX speeds, it's a damned nice card.

Check the GPU temp and make sure it's not overheating. Try updating the drivers as well if you haven't already done so. It does, however, sound like a power supply problem, assuming the card itself isn't bad.

[Samwise]

OK.  That's pretty much what I've been inferring from the Interwebs but none of the official material comes out and says it explicitly.     Thanks!

It does say that:

The 2x12 main power connector on the desktop board is backwards compatible with
ATX12V power supplies with 2x10 power connectors. Use of the 1x4 power connector
is required with ATX12V power supplies with 2x10 connectors when using PCI Express
cards that can consume up to 75 W. Figure 28 shows the location of the power
connectors.

It says it's required with 2x10 connectors, but not whether it's beneficial with 2x12, harmful, indifferent, etc.  And the printed manual more or less says to plug them all in.  I've actually been pretty appalled at the state of the documentation I've been reading... it's like they assume I know what I'm doing or something.  IKEA has spoiled me.

[Sky]

Hmm. Took the gpu fan off automatic control and cranked it to full speed, which is a bit loud imo. Ran 3dmarks and temps went from 50c-ish idle to just over 60c. But it didn't crash, leading me to believe it's heat-related. Folks have said teh card runs hot, it's disappointing the onboard fan can't compensate properly via monitoring.

Went back to stock speeds + auto-fan and it crashed in the second 3d test, freeze and reboot (hadn't been rebooting). Temps were over 70c. Seems like something is preventing the temperature monitor from cranking up the fans when it gets too hot.

[Engels]

I found this article on the board's pages. It seems that the 2x2 is required, but do not use a 1x4 converter for it, since it apparently causes system instability.

What confuses me is that in the graphic the board has, I see a 2x12 and a 2x4, but no 2x2.

What my board uses is a 2x12, a 2x2 and the on-board molex connector as auxiliary power to the PCI-E slot or some such. All of which can be plugged in safely. My board seems to operate just fine without the additional molex, but what the heck, in true 'motherboard on cinderblocks in the front yard' school of computing, I done plug it in fer more power! Yeehaw! Of course, I have no idea if it really makes any difference.

The 2x10 cable is for older boards. Sometime in the early 2000s boards started to come out with an additional 2x2 connector tacked on to the 2x10, making it a 2x12. PSUs compensated for the new development by simply providing a 2x10 and a 2x2 instead of a 2x12. That's what I thought was going on.

[Morfiend]

Hmm. Took the gpu fan off automatic control and cranked it to full speed, which is a bit loud imo. Ran 3dmarks and temps went from 50c-ish idle to just over 60c. But it didn't crash, leading me to believe it's heat-related. Folks have said teh card runs hot, it's disappointing the onboard fan can't compensate properly via monitoring.

Went back to stock speeds + auto-fan and it crashed in the second 3d test, freeze and reboot (hadn't been rebooting). Temps were over 70c. Seems like something is preventing the temperature monitor from cranking up the fans when it gets too hot.

Which 8800 card did you get Sky? The EVGA? It sounds to me like you should RMA the card. Also, you dont by chance have an old card you could plug in and run the test with, to make sure it is the vid card?

How much space do you have around the card? I seem to recall you have a decent amount. I think my card runs at around 52 idle and up to 70 underload, with no problems in sight.

[Yegolev]

Try a non-OEM HSF.  Can't hurt, and if your card keeps getting put to sleep due to heat, it's not going to wake up one day.

[Samwise]

So I finished putting my PC together, and unfortunately am having issues.   :-(  When I power it on with everything in, all the fans turn on and the CPU gets warm, but nothing else happens -- no video signal, and no POST beep.

I remove the video card.  Same thing.  (I would expect to get the "BEEEEEP BEEP BEEP" that means "I have no video card" at this point.)

I remove the CPU.  No fans turn on.  I put the CPU back in.

I remove the RAM.  Now I get the "BEEP BEEP BEEP" that means "I have no RAM."

Tried putting in each stick of RAM individually, figuring that maybe one of them was bad.  Same "fans on, no beep" situation.

My current best guess is that the POST is crapping out somewhere between the memory check and the video check, and that this means I have a bad motherboard.  Second opinions?

[Engels]

I know we went over this once, but what power cables do you currently have plugged into the mobo? Are you using the 4 prong molex?

[Trippy]

So I finished putting my PC together, and unfortunately am having issues.   :-(  When I power it on with everything in, all the fans turn on and the CPU gets warm, but nothing else happens -- no video signal, and no POST beep.

Do you have another video card you can plug in temporarily?

[Samwise]

I know we went over this once, but what power cables do you currently have plugged into the mobo? Are you using the 4 prong molex?

Negative -- just the 2x12 and the 2x4.  The video card, as it turned out, had two 2x3 connectors that go right from the power supply to the card, so additional auxiliary power shouldn't be necessary.   

Do you have another video card you can plug in temporarily?

Unfortunately, all of my old video cards are AGP.  I might be able to find someone who has an old PCI card, though.  My thought was that I could rule out the video card as the culprit since the motherboard never issues the "no video card" error code, and is therefore probably not even looking for it -- no?

[Engels]

I'm wondering if that molex on your motherboard is exclusive to video card use... Or if it is, its used as a preliminary video card power source before the video card's drivers are in play. Do you think it'd hurt something to try it?

[Samwise]

As far as I can tell, it's dedicated to the PCIE slots, and shouldn't come into play at all if the PCIE cards have no significant power requirements (i.e. those with their own auxiliary connectors).  Probably wouldn't hurt to try it, but I don't think the odds are good that it'd fix anything.  I'm still a bit stuck on the fact that I can turn on the motherboard with no video card in the slot and it won't complain.  The lack of complaint is very troubling, especially since I'm able to elicit other complaints (e.g. no memory).

[Trippy]

I know we went over this once, but what power cables do you currently have plugged into the mobo? Are you using the 4 prong molex?

Negative -- just the 2x12 and the 2x4.  The video card, as it turned out, had two 2x3 connectors that go right from the power supply to the card, so additional auxiliary power shouldn't be necessary.   

Is your power supply using a 2x2 to 2x4 adapter or is it 2x4 already? Is it seated properly? Also make sure your power switch connector *and* the reset switch connector are both connected the right way (not swapped around).

[Samwise]

Is your power supply using a 2x2 to 2x4 adapter or is it 2x4 already? Is it seated properly? Also make sure your power switch connector *and* the reset switch connector are both connected the right way (not swapped around).

It was 2x4 already, and it's seated properly insofar as I can determine (it's firmly anchored, the little tab went "click", et cetera).

The power and reset switch connectors don't have any polarity, as far as I can tell; none was mentioned in the documentation for either the motherboard or the case, and assuming they do go straight through to a simple switch it wouldn't make any difference since a switch is polarity-agnostic.  (Polarity is indicated for the LED connectors, which of course makes sense since LEDs only allow current in one direction.)  On the off chance it mattered, I did make sure that the switch connectors were oriented the same way (label facing out) as the LED connectors.

I got an email back from Intel support, which suggested that I try clearing the CMOS by removing the battery for an hour and then replacing it.  If that fails, I'm to try updating the BIOS (is that even possible if the board never finishes the POST?).

[Trippy]

Another thing to try is to take the motherboard out of the case and power it up from the outside. Back in the dark ages with the old school AT power supplies if you didn't install the standoffs properly and you shorted the motherboard by having it touch the case it wouldn't even power on but maybe these days some power can still get to the motherboard even if it's not "fitted" properly inside the case.

[Engels]

I was thinking the same thing. At one time in not too distant past I absentmindedly screwed the motherboard right to the case's plate, without the risers. If I recall correctly, it acted in a similar manner to Samwise's issue; the fans went on, but nobody was home.

[Samwise]

Were you able to elicit error codes from it in certain cases (like the "I lost my memory" code) when that happened?

I suppose I'll end up having to take the motherboard out one way or another.  Sigh.  (This will make the third time since installing it that I've had to yank it back out.)

[Sky]

Just an update on my build: it's apparently a gpu card defect. I read somewhere about a possible defect with the RAM heatsinks, my guess is that is this. This is that. Whatever. Seems like an uncommon problem, but several people have cropped up in the thread about it, so it's not unique to me alone. CS is going to cross-ship. Brownie points for evga, I love me cross-shipping. I built the machine a month ahead of my vacation in case of RMA, not having a card or whatever for a couple weeks. Nice to know I shouldn't need it. (the 8800 /is/ an amazing card, and despite problems with the individual card I have, I highly recommend it zomg)

RMA'ing back the Creative Elite Pro today, goddamned Creative. Time to do digital 5.1 from the card. Only solution right now is to DAC on the card, send the analog 5.1 to the DTS-610, ADC on the DTS-610, digital to the receiver, DAC on the receiver. That's fucking hamfisted. And I still have my doubts because Creative told me the stupid 'elite pro'  would do EAX digital 5.1 in games. Dicks.

I, however, withdraw my complaints in light of Sam's situation   

[Morfiend]

Sam, do you maybe have a different PSU you could try? Also, I would triple check ALL power conenctions.