Pretend you have $$$...

[Strazos]

Doesn't RAM automatically downclock to the highest supported frequency?

[Yegolev]

I learned some time ago, and the hard way, that I should disconnect all other disks when installing WinXP.

[Hoax]

Ok so here we go I'm basically all done but I have some annoying questions...

PSU: SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus 550W
CPU:  Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe
HSF: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
MOBO:  Abit AW9D-MAX
RAM:  CORSAIR XMS2 (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) TWIN2X2048-6400C4
HD: 2 x  Western Digital Caviar 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
CASE:  Antec Performance One P180B w/ 2 x VANTEC TF12025 120mm Case Fans added  :mrgreen:

So I'm clocking out at somewhere around $1600 (including a monitor he's picked) at the end of this.  The only thing left is to pick a Video Card.

Here are my problems.

Is there anything I really need to know about setting up RAID1 ahead of time?  It seems like it shouldn't be too hard from the small amounts of reading I've done.

The fucking real problem I have is Vista he keeps bugging me about Vista.  I have made a point of not following Vista.  I dont really want to know about it.  So is Vista going to screw me somehow that I should know about, because he thinks he wants or will need to run it.

So regarding Video Cards, I was thinking, couldn't I just pickup something decent from ATI and then if he somehow needed more GPU power he could get a second card and run them in SLI or Crossfire or w/e?  Or are SLI/Crossfire setups something that have to be bought together?  I know I could probably find the answer but really I'm lazy, sorry.

Finally any personal gripes or horror stories about any of the brands or w/e are always welcome.

[Trippy]

Ok so here we go I'm basically all done but I have some annoying questions...

PSU: SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus 550W
CPU:  Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe
HSF: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro

There are better CPU coolers out there unless you don't mind noisy fans.

MOBO:  Abit AW9D-MAX

That chipset doesn't support a full 32 lanes of PCI-e if you/he want to go the Crossfire route (you get 8 lanes x2). Also remember that AMD bought out ATI so you are buying an Intel chipset motherboard with an Intel CPU and trying to use an Intel competitor's video card technology on there. Not that it won't work but going into the future I would expect that the AMD/ATI combination will be the better supported one than Intel/ATI.

Is there anything I really need to know about setting up RAID1 ahead of time?  It seems like it shouldn't be too hard from the small amounts of reading I've done.

As long as you have some means of loading any necessary drivers you should be okay. But why do you want RAID1? Do you have some sort of mission critical data you plan on storing on there?

The fucking real problem I have is Vista he keeps bugging me about Vista.  I have made a point of not following Vista.  I dont really want to know about it.  So is Vista going to screw me somehow that I should know about, because he thinks he wants or will need to run it.

Your system should be fine for Vista but you'll need to check if the OEM copy of Windows XP you are getting comes with a Vista coupon. Otherwise that's a big extra expensive if he wants to upgrade to it in the future. Also you have to be careful with version of XP you get since that will determine what versions of Vista the coupon will allow you to upgrade to.

So regarding Video Cards, I was thinking, couldn't I just pickup something decent from ATI and then if he somehow needed more GPU power he could get a second card and run them in SLI or Crossfire or w/e?  Or are SLI/Crossfire setups something that have to be bought together?  I know I could probably find the answer but really I'm lazy, sorry.

You don't need to buy them together and Crossfire is nice(r) in that you don't even have to have matched GPUs. NVIDIA's SLI is not an option on that motherboard so you will have to go with ATI GPUs if you think he may want Crossfire in the future unless he's willing to just toss out the original card.

[Engels]

Regrettably, NewEgg doens't carry the Scyth Ninja 120 cooler they rate so well agains the Freezer 7 Pro. They do have other Scythe fans, but hey, with fans, it seems that one or two manufacturing changes and the advantages go out the window.

 Do any of you use another online outlet for computer needs that's reputable and has similar customer service?

[Trippy]

Regrettably, NewEgg doens't carry the Scyth Ninja 120 cooler they rate so well agains the Freezer 7 Pro. They do have other Scythe fans, but hey, with fans, it seems that one or two manufacturing changes and the advantages go out the window.

Actually they do (I bought mine from them). They sell the "plus" version of the original and the updated model as well. They sell the Thermalright XP-120 as well. Note that in the SPCR review linked above they are using a 3rd party fan so YMMV.

Do any of you use another online outlet for computer needs that's reputable and has similar customer service?

I hear good things about Monarch but Newegg is the only one I use for online purchases at the moment.

[Strazos]

Wait, Crossfire can use mis-matched cards? SLI requires 2 of the exact same card, right?

[Trippy]

Wait, Crossfire can use mis-matched cards?

Yes though they both have to support Crossfire. Crossfire supports something they call "scissored" mode where the scene is divided into two pieces and each piece is sent to one card to render however the pieces don't have to be the same size which is how they can support two GPUs with different rendering capabilities/speeds.

ATI rushed together their original "solution" and they've been constantly updating it since that point so it can be hard to keep track of what you actually need to make it work. For example at first you needed a special "master" card and then later they got rid of that requirement (though the GPUs still need to be able to support Crossfire). You also needed a "pass through" external cable connector like the old school Voodoo cards and now they support the inter connection through the PCI-e bus like newer SLI setups.

SLI requires 2 of the exact same card, right?

They no longer have to be the exact same card, just the same GPU.

[Strazos]

Snazzy....something to keep in mind for when I eventually get a new PC.

[Viin]

Can anyone tell me a couple good brands for a power supply? I think my 400W isn't working too well with the new setup, as I get random reboots when going graphics heavy for awhile.

I don't know if CoolMax is any good, but NewEgg has a 500W CoolMax Power Supply for FREE with mail-in rebate.

I might have missed recommendations for this earlier in the thread, too bad you can't easily search the thread!

[Trippy]

Can anyone tell me a couple good brands for a power supply? I think my 400W isn't working too well with the new setup, as I get random reboots when going graphics heavy for awhile.

I don't know if CoolMax is any good, but NewEgg has a 500W CoolMax Power Supply for FREE with mail-in rebate.

Personally I would be a little suspicious of a power supply that cheap (price pre-rebate) but I don't know anything about that brand.

I might have missed recommendations for this earlier in the thread, too bad you can't easily search the thread!

I like SeaSonic like the one Hoax is planning on buying above, but you pay for that sort of quality.

[Engels]

Antec is reputable, but the most tested for clean power and stability over time come from PC Power & Cooling. They are not glamorous, but they are reputable. They also have a lot of documentation if you want to go off the tech geek deep end with them.

[Hoax]

Trippy I forgot to reply, thanks a ton for the info, I'll get back to this thread one last time but I've got to handle some of my own shit this morning.

On the HSF I have no idea how that happened, but I am retarded and glad I posted the list.  I spent like 45min yesterday looking for the reason I would have put that HSF in and I can't find it.  Looks like the Scythe will replace it...   


On PSU's I have a Zalman in my current personal rig and I've found it to be quiet and work fine.

[Miasma]

Does anyone know of the SeaSonic has nice long cables?  The case I am looking at puts the Power supply on the bottom and I've read that many don't have cables long enough to reach up to the motherboard.

[Viin]

Yikes those PSU are expensive. I was hoping to get away with less than $50! (The wife is already mad at me for having to buy RAM and a floppy drive that wasn't in the budget).

[Sky]

The majority of people I've seen have pc problems, both here and irl (heh) have been due to psu issues. Most psu's are cheap cheap. Even the relatively good one in my 3-yr old pc isn't good enough to go into my nascent pc. The old proverb: buy quality and you only cry once.

[Engels]

Not to mention that you can nearly always port over the old PSU to the new system you're using, if you don't skimp, that is, and get good quality and high enough watts. Remember, for SLI you want 600 and just in general, its good to get at least that much for whatever newfangled thing the future may bring.

[Sky]

Revised list...

Intel Core 2 Duo e6600
2GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2 1000
ASUS P5W DH Deluxe 975X
Antec P180
eVGA 8800GTX 768MB
WD Raptor 150GB SATA
Lite-On CD/DVD burner w/lightscribe
Creative X-Fi Elite (need optical breakout box)
PPC&C Silencer 610
Scythe SCNJ-1100P (looks nice, thanks for the heads-up, hope it fits )
Logitech RF Wireless MX3200 bundle

Comes in at $2500 on the nose. I know getting the bleeding edge video is not wise...I've never done so before. But I figure if I'm going to spend that much dough on an entirely new system (no parts from the current system), I'm not going to skimp the last couple hundred bucks...

Survey says?

[schild]

Is there a big improvement over the $200 dual core and the $800 one? I haven't seen anything that shows so. They both seem like absolute monsters. Knock down on the processor and buy yourself a 360. ^_^

[Engels]

Nice man. With the only caveat that I'd want a raid0 with 3 drives, that's my dream machine right there.

[Engels]

Is there a big improvement over the $200 dual core and the $800 one? I haven't seen anything that shows so. They both seem like absolute monsters. Knock down on the processor and buy yourself a 360. ^_^

Ya, there's a difference. the 6600 and above have higher HT rates. People are opting for the 6600 and not messing with the EXtraEEamM! edition because the 6600 lends itself to overclocking nicely.

[Strazos]

Still using a 400W Thermaltake PSU in my rig. For some reason, I've had weird problems with power in the past when I go to add new stuff (twice, exactly). Oddly enough, wiring some of the stuff solved whatever the problem is.

I take it that long daisy-chaining can be a big problem? I've tried to stay away from it when cable length allows.

[Trippy]

On the HSF I have no idea how that happened, but I am retarded and glad I posted the list.  I spent like 45min yesterday looking for the reason I would have put that HSF in and I can't find it.  Looks like the Scythe will replace it...   

A word of caution about the original Scythe Ninja (the 1000(P)). I had a difficult time "clipping on" the heat sink on a Socket 939 server-style motherboard for my Linux box. It felt like I was back in the Athlon XP days trying to wrestle with an inflexible clip on attachment. I did finally manage to get it on but I had to use so much force I was worried I was putting too much strain on the motherboard so I took it off and put on a Zalman 9500 which I also have on my Windows box. The Zalman doesn't cool as efficiently and is potentially nosier since it has a 92mm fan (and it's built in which is somewhat annoying, though it does come with a fan speed controller which is nice) but the mounting procedure is super easy and super safe since it uses screws that you tighten. My problems may have been caused by the fact that I was using a server motherboard (which shouldn't have mattered in theory) or maybe I just had clip mechanism that was slightly offspec but it's something to watch out for.

The Ninja 1100(P) has a different attachment mechanism than the 1000 and for the Intel 775 socket attachment it uses a nifty "push pin" attachment mechanism. The AMD mount on the 1100 still requires you to use a clip-on mechanism though I don't know how it compares to the 1000 since it's been redesigned.

Does anyone know of the SeaSonic has nice long cables?  The case I am looking at puts the Power supply on the bottom and I've read that many don't have cables long enough to reach up to the motherboard.

The SeaSonic cables are pretty long but if you are worried or if you are a neat freak and want to try to route the power connector *under* the motherboard in a P180 case you can get something like this.

Survey says?

Needs more disk space.

Is there a big improvement over the $200 dual core and the $800 one? I haven't seen anything that shows so. They both seem like absolute monsters. Knock down on the processor and buy yourself a 360. ^_^

It depends on which $800 one you are referring to. Some of those are quad-core (or more accurately dual dual-core) rather than dual-core which is why they are so much more expensive.

[Trippy]

Ya, there's a difference. the 6600 and above have higher HT rates. People are opting for the 6600 and not messing with the EXtraEEamM! edition because the 6600 lends itself to overclocking nicely.

I think you mean FSB. AMD uses HyperTransport but Intel does not. However you would be hard pressed to buy a Core 2 Duo these days that runs at 800 MHz. Even the E6300 runs at 1066 MHz.

[Trippy]

Still using a 400W Thermaltake PSU in my rig. For some reason, I've had weird problems with power in the past when I go to add new stuff (twice, exactly). Oddly enough, wiring some of the stuff solved whatever the problem is.

I take it that long daisy-chaining can be a big problem? I've tried to stay away from it when cable length allows.

It shouldn't matter unless your power supply has a dedicated video card power cable of the standard peripheral power connector type rather than a PCI-e power connector and you mixed that up with the other 12V power connectors. You may just have have some bum Y splitters.

[Morfiend]

This time around I bought a Modular power supply, and I will never buy anything else. Its so awesome. For those of you who dont know, modular means the cables come unattached from the psu, and you only hook in the ones you need. It freed up so much clutter in my case, its amazing.

[schild]

What PSU did you get?

[Viin]

I didn't even think to look for a modular PSU, but that's a great idea. The black Hiper model on This Page looks pretty sweet, but I'll have to look at the review sites to see what is recommended.

[Trippy]

I didn't even think to look for a modular PSU, but that's a great idea. The black Hiper model on This Page looks pretty sweet, but I'll have to look at the review sites to see what is recommended.

Oooh a Type-R power supply! But I don't see the wing on it. And it has no lights -- that's just wrong.

[Viin]

I'm pretty sure you can get undercarriage lights for it, whatever those are called.

[Sky]

Is there a big improvement over the $200 dual core and the $800 one? I haven't seen anything that shows so. They both seem like absolute monsters. Knock down on the processor and buy yourself a 360. ^_^

The e6600 is the $316 version. It's the bottom of the 'good' version of the chip. I hope to o/c to 3.6GHz or so...If I were rich, I'd buy the quad-core version, since it's the same price as the extreeeeme version of the dual-core. Also, not enough games on the 360 that I'd want. Mass Effect will push the issue, but I hope they come to their senses and make a pc port in a few years (Jade Empire is strictly x-box exclusive! Don't ask about a pc port! :))

Nice man. With the only caveat that I'd want a raid0 with 3 drives, that's my dream machine right there.

I don't RAID.

Needs more disk space.

Not at first. DVD burner to backup data when things get crowded. At some point, I'll be getting an external drive for data. I mean, I just paid $83 for a 250GB MyBook. That's silly cheap. Going to get one for my music project and to transfer my cd library, which is now a mishmash of formats on my work machine.

[Engels]

I recently read in the NY Times that Intel has just pushed the envelope even further with the creation of the 45nm transistor. The old standard since forever was the 90nm transistor, based on silicon. Not sure what material the Core2Duos use, but they're the new-ish 65nm transistors. AMD seems to be falling woefully behind, which is sad.

Essentially, it looks like Moore's Law has risen from the grave and we can expect CPUs and anything else using micro transistors to at least double in processing potential in the next few years. Not necessarily in terms of clockspeed, but in the amount of transistors that can be stuffed onto a chip, and the degree to which one can push electricity through them without power loss.

[Trippy]

I recently read in the NY Times that Intel has just pushed the envelope even further with the creation of the 45nm transistor. The old standard since forever was the 90nm transistor, based on silicon. Not sure what material the Core2Duos use, but they're the new-ish 65nm transistors. AMD seems to be falling woefully behind, which is sad.

Essentially, it looks like Moore's Law has risen from the grave and we can expect CPUs and anything else using micro transistors to at least double in processing potential in the next few years. Not necessarily in terms of clockspeed, but in the amount of transistors that can be stuffed onto a chip, and the degree to which one can push electricity through them without power loss.

It's not the 45nm process that's special it's the use of hafnium as the insulating layers rather than silicon dixoide and IBM jointly with AMD essentially gave the same annoucement as Intel did in response to Intel. And Intel has always been on the leading edge of chip technology. That's been their advantage from the beginning. E.g. they are always the first to move the newest process size ahead of all their competitors. Intel has been on 65nm for a while now and AMD is just starting to move over to it now.

[Engels]

If I read the article correctly, its the use of halfnium in the transistors that allows them to be that much smaller.

[Sky]

The very first packaged Penryn silicon from the very first wafer booted Windows Vista, Mac OS X, Windows XP and Linux on the first try.

Cool!

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2915&p=1

Intel has been researching this High-k + Metal Gate (HK+MG) combination in transistors for a handful of years now, with hundreds of material options for metal gate electrodes and high-k dielectrics. The actual combination of high-k and metal gate material isn't being disclosed at this time, most likely to protect Intel's research and maintain the manufacturing advantage as long as possible. Intel expects that no other company will have HK+MG transistors until they reach 32nm or later.

Zing. Shoulda bought me some Intel stock before Conroe and Penryn!