Pretend you have $$$...

[sinij]

I have hard times believing that passive cooling solution can work well. I build my PCs around designing airflows, with passive cooling its all up to chassis fans and can result in hot zones around your HDDs, video card, PSU. Its also not that quiet since you have fewer fans but they have to work harder and there is less redundancy.

[Hoax]

I'm feeling pretty confident about these choices.

CPU = (E6400 Conroe 2.13GHz)  $220
RAM = (CORSAIR XMS2 2GB) $236x2=$472
VIDEO CARD = (Radeon X1300PRO) $70

I've also narrowed the mobo down (I think) to these two:

MSI 975X Plat. v2
or
Abit AW9D-MAX

Which are $170 and $210 respectively on Newegg.  I'm leaning towards the Abit mobo, although I do need to take a look at Intel's boards still.

The whole HD situation is annoying as he wants to run a mirrored raid setup and I've never done that but it doesn't sound difficult.

Thoughts are welcome.  Also anyone got a HSF they really like for core 2 duo?  I was looking at something from Arctic Cooling but I'm always open to suggestions on that front. 

[Sky]

I found a nifty device I want to pick up at some point.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/4081/psu-208/FrozenCPU_ATX_20_Ultimate_LCD_Power_Supply_Tester_2024_pin_ATX_SATA_P4_Xeon_PCI-E_Floppy_4_pin.html

[Morfiend]

So I spent the last day or so testing my system and stressing it, and installing shit.

I LOVE it. It has been chewing through everything. I got 10,000 points in 3dMark, which is very high, and then I got 8,000 in PCMark, which is also in the top 95%.

I installed the FEAR Extraction Point demo and ran it with everything maxed, ran very smooth. Also installed WoW and ran it in max resolution (2048x1500) with every setting maxed. And I was getting 80+FPS in the middle of Org. (WoW limits FPS to around 85).

The system is pretty damn stable, and running nice and cool. 28-29c at idle and 35c under full load. Also it looks really nice. Which while not really mattering, I like my shit to look good as well as perform good.

[Strazos]

35c under load? That's pretty nice. I'm lucky if my CPU hangs around 60c under load.

Then again, it's an old-school AMD; heat is the name of the game with those.

[Engels]

Ya, those AMD XPs run pretty hot. The AMD 64s are cooler. Mine runs like Morph's does, with the default factory fan.

Addendum, 23 minutes after getting home from work, I'm running my new CPU. The upgrade from an AMD 64 3500+ to a dual core AMD 64 dual core 60FX was a matter of switching them out, and one reboot. No additional fiddling required. Now, to test drive this puppy!

[Strazos]

Sounds luscious.

[schild]

This post is to point out that according to page 2, Morphiend got a floppy drive.

Morphiend. Floppy Drive. For real?

[Engels]

There are a few situations where you still could want a floppy drive. Raid driver at the time of installation come to mind.

[Morfiend]

This post is to point out that according to page 2, Morphiend got a floppy drive.

Morphiend. Floppy Drive. For real?

It was like $5 OEM, I didnt install it in my case, but last time I did a build, I ended up needing one for the RAID drivers, and it held me up for 3 days. I didnt want that to happen again, so I bought one. It is currently sitting on my desk still in the bubble wrap. Im going to put it away in case I need it.

[Viin]

I had picked out the ABIT Fatal1ty Socket AM2 mobo for my new rig (go go stock options!) but I just realized it was a SLI board not a CrossFire board. I had wanted to stay with ATI vid cards since that's what I am familiar with (how to overclock them, etc etc).. but now I'm not sure what to do. There are like 3 CrossFire mobo's with AM2 chipset, with a few others for the 939 socket.

There goes that plan, /grumble.

[Engels]

Are you going to be doing CrossFire with two ATI cards? Otherwise, I wouldn't fret about it one way or another.

[Viin]

That was the plan. Buy one ATI card now and then CrossFire it with another later. But, I think I'll go Nvidia because those are the better mobos right now. So far this is my plan:

Asus Crosshair Socket AM2 mobo (ghey name) - $190 for openbox
Athlon 64 X2 4200 Windsor - $165
eVGA 7600GT 256mb - $140 (rebate brings it down to $120)

I'll probably SLI the 7600GT later this year. I don't mind learning Nvidia cards, I just have to go read a bit and find the "cool" tools.

Tom's Hardware VGA chart is pretty useful when comparing video cards (ie: X1600 PRO better or worse than 7600 GS?).

[Engels]

Nvidia really isn't all that bad. The board looks promising; do you by any chance know if it can accomodate the upcoming 60nm dual core chips from AMD?

Later this year you should probably simply be saving up for a DX10 card.

[Viin]

From what I've read the 65nm chips will work on today's Socket AM2 mobo's - there's just a bios update needed to 'read' the new CPU.

I've backed down from the Asus Crosshair because I decided that the 'openbox' version isn't for me, and the regular retail box is $230, so now I back to the Abit Fatal1ty AN9 mobo for only $170 retail.

Hopefully I'll have my new setup running by the end of the week.

[Strazos]

I would never buy anything with Fatal1ty's name on it, just out of principle. 

[Furiously]

I would never buy anything with Fatal1ty's name on it, just out of principle. 

The first one also wasn't that good. But I agree with your principle.

[Engels]

I hate to say it, but if there's anything one should not skimp on is the motherboard. Just in terms of upgrade and support, a good name brand is more likely to do the work to put BIOS upgrades out there to support new technology, whereas 'economy' brands feel no such obligation.

Not saying that Abit is bad, since I do not know the first thing about them, but I'd sooner get an Ebayed video card for 50 dollars less and spend that 50 bucks on a retail Asus, Megabyte or other 'top end' board.

[Trippy]

I hate to say it, but if there's anything one should not skimp on is the motherboard. Just in terms of upgrade and support, a good name brand is more likely to do the work to put BIOS upgrades out there to support new technology, whereas 'economy' brands feel no such obligation.

Not saying that Abit is bad, since I do not know the first thing about them, but I'd sooner get an Ebayed video card for 50 dollars less and spend that 50 bucks on a retail Asus, Megabyte or other 'top end' board.

Abit is comparable to a Gigabyte (I'm assuming that's who you meant) or an MSI. Abit was at one time the premier "enthusiasts" board maker being the first to offer overclocking through the BIOS rather than having to set jumpers. They faded for a while as others copied them and then surpassed them but have been on the comeback trail with their Fatal1ty line.

[Engels]

Yep, I meant Gigabyte. I have a board, still running, going on 5 years of pretty heavy treatment. I know they aren't considered in the league of Asus, but personally, I've been satisfied with what I've seen. Good to know that Abit has the acumen as well.

[Hoax]

I actually have beef with Asus, in my first two machines the Asus board was the first part (other then a burned out video card) to die after like 6 and 4 years respectively.  So they have been replaced by Abit in my pecking order, the MSI board got solid reviews as well so I included it in case anyone had a strong opinion on one or the other.

[Strazos]

My Asus board should be dead at least twice over - it's still chugging along.

[schild]

I have a giant 400 watt powersupply hanging out the back of my shuttle box. My computer has been through hell and come back alive. By all accounts, it's undead.

[Yegolev]

I have a giant 400 watt powersupply

I'm going to have to tag you with Misuse of an Adjective here.

[Viin]

So, upgrading is never as easy as you would think.

I ended up buying a floppy drive (-gasp!-) after not having one for about 5 years. I wanted to install XP on my new 3 disk RAID ($40 for a 80gb SATA drive at New Egg), so I had to have it load the drivers during setup. The funny thing is, XP Setup won't read from anything but your A: for a driver! It'll use the CDROM all day long for loading files and checking your "previous version of windows" but god forbid it load a driver from a CD!

Anyways, I ended up losing all the data on my files drive (IDE drive I use for music and downloaded apps repository, plus My Documents) because XP Setup didn't recognize it as a valid NTFS partition (wtf?) and reformatted it so it could load boot drivers on to it - apparently XP can't boot from a RAID array. I didn't have anything amazing on that drive, but I haven't even started using it to figure out if I've lost something I really needed. :P

Oh, and I should have known this, but the new mobos want DDR2 memory and won't work with DDR mem - so I ended up having to buy a 512 stick at CompUSA just so I could get this POS back up and running. For some reason I didn't even think to check and see if it'd work with my current DDR memory - I mean, wtf, going from DDR to DDR2 requires a new form factor? Ahh well.

[Engels]

Ya, DDR2 memory is actually mostly the whole point in switching to the new form factors for AMD. That's why their AM2 chipsets have been so lackluster; they were developed mostly to take advantage of the far faster bus rates of the new DDR2 ram, but the actual chips themselves weren't much, if any, of an improvement over the 939 chipsets.

Speaking of memory, I'm looking at getting two crucial sticks, this one or this one.

I have a AMD San Diego 64 FX 2.6 Ghz processor. I noticed that the Ballistix 1gigx2 sticks run at PC4000 or 500mhz whereas the 'regular' 1GBx2 runs at PC3200, or 400mhz. Is there any point at all in buying a PC4000, or will it just throttle down to the 200mhz frequency anyway? Crucial states that my motherboard, an A8N-32 SLI Deluxe, supports only DDR SDRAM Frequencies from PC2700 and PC3200, so why are they pusing the Ballistix stick at me?

[Trippy]

I have a AMD San Diego 64 FX 2.6 Ghz processor. I noticed that the Ballistix 1gigx2 sticks run at PC4000 or 500mhz whereas the 'regular' 1GBx2 runs at PC3200, or 400mhz. Is there any point at all in buying a PC4000, or will it just throttle down to the 200mhz frequency anyway? Crucial states that my motherboard, an A8N-32 SLI Deluxe, supports only DDR SDRAM Frequencies from PC2700 and PC3200, so why are they pusing the Ballistix stick at me?

It's only useful if you want to overclock your system and given that the FX's are completely unlocked it's easier just to bump up the CPU multiplier rather than overclock the base frequency (the 200 MHz setting).

[Miasma]

This thread upsets me because it makes me think about building a new computer.  I started pricing components and I can't believe the nicest video cards cost more than a PS3.  And I mean just one, not two in an SLI config.

[Strazos]

That's why you don't go ZOMG TOP OF TEH LINE. Staying a few months or even a year behind the top of the power curve results in huge savings, while trading off just a little bit of performance.

I just priced out a decent system for someone last night for about $1600. It will be a kickass system with plenty of upgrade options.

[Engels]

I have a AMD San Diego 64 FX 2.6 Ghz processor. I noticed that the Ballistix 1gigx2 sticks run at PC4000 or 500mhz whereas the 'regular' 1GBx2 runs at PC3200, or 400mhz. Is there any point at all in buying a PC4000, or will it just throttle down to the 200mhz frequency anyway? Crucial states that my motherboard, an A8N-32 SLI Deluxe, supports only DDR SDRAM Frequencies from PC2700 and PC3200, so why are they pusing the Ballistix stick at me?

It's only useful if you want to overclock your system and given that the FX's are completely unlocked it's easier just to bump up the CPU multiplier rather than overclock the base frequency (the 200 MHz setting).

So, let me see if I understand, which I probably don't. If one gets a PC4000 (500mhz) ram chip, you'd have to overclock the base frequency of the CPU from 200mhz to 250mhz to make it even use the ram? Is it even possible to over clock by that great a factor?

[Hoax]

This thread upsets me because it makes me think about building a new computer.  I started pricing components and I can't believe the nicest video cards cost more than a PS3.  And I mean just one, not two in an SLI config.

Seriously video cards are never ever ever worth the money, ever.  Even when building my own rigs for gaming I've found myself best served by setting a budget getting everything else at where the price jump is and then fitting the best video card I can afford in as the last choice.  Unless you are lan-party'ing with the fps crowd I can't imagine a time when in the current market a $150-200 card wouldn't be more then enough for any game you played.

[Trippy]

I have a AMD San Diego 64 FX 2.6 Ghz processor. I noticed that the Ballistix 1gigx2 sticks run at PC4000 or 500mhz whereas the 'regular' 1GBx2 runs at PC3200, or 400mhz. Is there any point at all in buying a PC4000, or will it just throttle down to the 200mhz frequency anyway? Crucial states that my motherboard, an A8N-32 SLI Deluxe, supports only DDR SDRAM Frequencies from PC2700 and PC3200, so why are they pusing the Ballistix stick at me?

It's only useful if you want to overclock your system and given that the FX's are completely unlocked it's easier just to bump up the CPU multiplier rather than overclock the base frequency (the 200 MHz setting).

So, let me see if I understand, which I probably don't. If one gets a PC4000 (500mhz) ram chip, you'd have to overclock the base frequency of the CPU from 200mhz to 250mhz to make it even use the ram? Is it even possible to over clock by that great a factor?

Your motherboard should allow for that though you may have to lower your CPU multiplier unless you have special cooling or happened to get a really nice die but actually I forgot that most A64 motherboards allow you to clock the memory bus at a different speed than the CPU so you can set it that way.

[Engels]

I was tinkering around with AI Booster, the AMD 64 overclocking utility and I didn't see a way to separately modify the ram settings, other than voltage. I do see a place where I can both modify the CPU base frequency and the multiplier. I will poke around in the BIOS later to see if there's a place to change the ram speed without altering the CPU base speed (If I understood you correctly).

But the bottom line is, PC4000 will not work without some manual overclocking, yes? There is no automatic memory speed adjustment made when you install one of these modules, correct?

[Trippy]

I was tinkering around with AI Booster, the AMD 64 overclocking utility and I didn't see a way to separately modify the ram settings, other than voltage. I do see a place where I can both modify the CPU base frequency and the multiplier. I will poke around in the BIOS later to see if there's a place to change the ram speed without altering the CPU base speed (If I understood you correctly).

My A8N-SLI Premium motherboard has it as part of its BIOS settings.

But the bottom line is, PC4000 will not work without some manual overclocking, yes? There is no automatic memory speed adjustment made when you install one of these modules, correct?

I don't know, for my gaming rigs I always buy memory with the fastest timings at the normal rated bandwidth speed that I can afford since I don't overclock. The bandwidth setting should be stored on the chips just like the timing settings are so your motherboard may pick it up automatically depending on how "enthusiast" friendly it is.

[Engels]

Thanks again for your help. I'll do a bit more research on the matter.