Pic of the next generation 360, some statistics from engadget.

[Strazos]

Stray, I didn't even touch the other parts of the PS3. Sorry if you misunderstood or if I misrepresented myself. I was only referring to the stupid "6 Axis" shit that was shoehorned in as a response to Nintendo.

But really, I'm not going to fight with you over a system that has absolutely nothing I want. Nothing. I'm not sold on Cell. I don't want, or need, some sort of "Media Center." And the software lineup, as of right now, is shit. A bunch of ports and some meh exclusives?

Resistance? Spare me, please. It's a pretty but ultimately mediocre shooter. It's very pretty, but after playing GoW and especially R6 Las Vegas, the gameplay of Resistance comes off as a bit...dated, to me. If it was a PC game I would probably still like it enough to play it, but a fucking PS control? No thanks. I hate the damn dualshock and its crap analogs.

And speaking of the control...sorry, it feels like a cheap piece of shit to me. Perhaps I simply prefer to have some actual weight to my controls. Also, I really hate shoulder buttons. Hate hate HATE shoulder buttons, and the controller for the PS3 has 2. I'm much better with triggers.

And finally, lets not kid ourselves. Look at the price of a stand-alone BD player. Then look at the PS3 price. Even with the amount of money Sony is losing on the system right now, do you really think the BD parts int he PS3 are the same top-of-the-line stuff you would find in a standalone player? I don't believe so personally.

[stray]

Squirrel: It's a kickass gaming machine. Resistance, and GT Concept are great examples of what's possible with it already -- and one is only a launch a title. The other is a canned title. Even EA shows what's possible with their shinier, more beefed up than 360 version of Fight Night.

Fight Night isn't more beefed up though.  What they did was make the boxers look better but at the cost of making the background look a lot worse.

It's only in bigger venues, which have darkened crowds anyways. Like this.

Besides, my comment about "beefed up" wasn't about the graphics (my comment about "shiner" was). I meant things like the addition of fighting stances, new animations, better physics, and Get in the Ring mode. And my only point was that it's silly to think the PS3 is going to be some inferior gaming machine. The launch titles aren't what I'd like, but there's enough good gaming spread around to give an indication that the Playstation isn't just meant to be some Blu-Ray/Digital Media machine.

[stray]

But really, I'm not going to fight with you over a system that has absolutely nothing I want. Nothing. I'm not sold on Cell. I don't want, or need, some sort of "Media Center." And the software lineup, as of right now, is shit. A bunch of ports and some meh exclusives?

Oh well, big surprise. You never cared much about consoles to begin with. Like Sky and Hoax, that's always been your schtick. It has nothing to do with the PS3.

[schild]

And finally, lets not kid ourselves. Look at the price of a stand-alone BD player. Then look at the PS3 price. Even with the amount of money Sony is losing on the system right now, do you really think the BD parts int he PS3 are the same top-of-the-line stuff you would find in a standalone player? I don't believe so personally.

You're pretty much wrong and don't really do any research. Especially about consoles. As Stray just said, you're just being predictable.

[NiX]

I hope your example of FN3 isn't to imply the PS3 is better. EA just had more time to actually put real features into the game. I think the pissing and moaning about one being better than the other is stupid and Stray's recent fanboi attitude is getting annoying. You like your PS3. A lot. Great. Thanks.

[stray]

I hope your example of FN3 isn't to imply the PS3 is better. EA just had more time to actually put real features into the game. I think the pissing and moaning about one being better than the other is stupid and Stray's recent fanboi attitude is getting annoying. You like your PS3. A lot. Great. Thanks.

I just said I put that example up to show that it isn't some inferior gaming machine -slash- "It's really just a Blu-Ray player". It had nothing to do with the PS3 being better (though I do think the PS3 will eventually be better by virtue of being more versatile).

That's it.

I'm only being a "fanboi" because I keep hearing stuff like that (or other examples like "the PS3 loads games slower"). Talk about annoying.

If I was really being a fanboi, I'd make up shit about the 360's inferiority. Which I don't. My only beef with it is that 1) Microsoft eventually wants to bring you the homogeneous and sacrificial upgrade cycle from hell and 2) It's a bit of a one trick pony when it comes to exclusives.

[schild]

The 360 isn't a one trick pony when it comes to exclusives. Unless you mean, they've got this one cool trick where they steal from Nintendo and Sony - left and right.

[stray]

I keep seeing tough, American Space Marine guys with big guns. Helmets optional.

[Strazos]

But really, I'm not going to fight with you over a system that has absolutely nothing I want. Nothing. I'm not sold on Cell. I don't want, or need, some sort of "Media Center." And the software lineup, as of right now, is shit. A bunch of ports and some meh exclusives?

Oh well, big surprise. You never cared much about consoles to begin with. Like Sky and Hoax, that's always been your schtick. It has nothing to do with the PS3.

Bullshit. I care about consoles when they're worth caring about. For me, right now, the PS3 is not worth what attention I've given it. If I wanted to get a new console right now, I would. A 360, and then a Wii in close second. They both have games I actually want to play.

[stray]

Hey, congratulations then. You've changed overnight for the sake of this thread. Have fun.

[Strazos]

Now you're just pulling shit completely out of your ass.

[stray]

OK, don't have fun then?

[ahoythematey]

Wow.



This is just like the old days.  I miss them so.

[stray]

So Kotaku has a vid of the 360 with HDMI.

In other news, here's a stupid article about the PS3 downgrading to DVD:

http://www.gadgetnutz.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=00264

With Resistance already being over 20 GB, Kojima coming out and saying that MGS can barely be contained in 25GB, and 360 titles like Blug Dragon already being 3 DVD's long, I don't think so.

[schild]

What is that VGA bullshit? I need to see a straight HDMI video to buy that rumor.

[squirrel]

What is that VGA bullshit? I need to see a straight HDMI video to buy that rumor.

Same, what's with the adapter? Need more info on the path there...plus HDMI and a larger drive are only really useful if the DVD drive has been upgrade to HDDVD.

[stray]

Maybe he just had a funky cable, and needed the adaptor..?

Besides, I don't see how it could be just a simple port/chassis mod. Hdmi still needs a chipset on the mb.

[Trippy]

What is that VGA bullshit? I need to see a straight HDMI video to buy that rumor.

That's an HDMI to DVI adapter you dorks.

[stray]

Oh shit. Motorstorm losing exclusive status!. 

[Azazel]

For parents and casual types all around the globe, it's all about cheap and it's the main reason the Wii is selling so much.

Hey, thats one of the reasons why I got a Wii as well. Well in part. Aside from the fact that the PS3 isn't released here, it and the 360 have one thing in common that stands out to me right now - they're both expensive shiny boxes of exactly the same titles that their older versions were. I'll buy both eventually I'm sure, but for the time being, there's a big stack of BFD about both. The Wii, despite it's limited number of titles worth owning, does something a bit different and does it in a fun enough way to make it worthwhile.

As for the PS3 being a wonderful blu-ray player, I can't express in words how little I care about the latest incremantal-upgrade proprietry format that Sony is trying to push. I hope it fails miserably like minidisc and UMD movies.

[Azazel]

Oh shit. Motorstorm losing exclusive status!. 

The comments on that web page remind me what's so wrong with humanity.

[stray]

Heh, didn't read any of that. Funny video though.

[squirrel]

What is that VGA bullshit? I need to see a straight HDMI video to buy that rumor.

That's an HDMI to DVI adapter you dorks.

  doh.

[schild]

Would still rather see a straight HDMI hookup.

[stray]

Back to the console war (and to be serious this time)....

I've been wondering, does multiprocessor computing encourage a less automated approach to programming games (this applies to both the Cell and the 360, but moreso the Cell)? Will it encourage developers to go back the old days of finely crafted games, or do you think they'll just try to take the easier path and never squeeze the real power out of the the 360's and PS3's CPU's? So far at least, very few games on either platform are doing that, and yet, gamers seem to be pleased anyways.

The reason I bring it up is because of this article about Insomniac, and the issues they faced when making Resistance.

the Insomniac programmers carefully schedule when the PPE should ask something of the SPEs and when it should expect a response. The PS3’s operating system can make such schedules, too, but not as well as the programmer can, according to Hastings. That’s because the programmers can determine, by experimentation, exactly how long a job should take. And if they manage to optimize that bit of code so that it runs faster, they can also tweak the PPE’s schedule to reflect the change and accelerate the game.

Hastings acknowledges that some programmers disagree with such a labor-intensive, hands-on approach, and he expects that other groups are working on improved automatic schedulers. “We’ll do it by hand. With expertise and familiarity, it will get easier,” he says. “I think other teams will have an überscheduler that’s customized to their needs more than the operating system itself. I imagine both models will work.”

[stray]

Let me add something here...

Just speaking of processors alone (and not secondary things), it seems like each of these consoles have SO MUCH to offer in unique-ness that it'd be a shame to not see them do so. Both the 360 and PS3 could probably do some amazing shit if their respective MP capabilities were fully utilized. Is there anything that would encourage developers to really dedicate the time to do this, or are we just going to see a shitload of generic ports (and in turn, no real console war at all)?

There was this statement awhile back where an EA suit said that their current lineup on the PS3 was only utilizing 20% of the PS3's power (how he would actually know that, I don't know....But he probably has a point in there somewhere). This would (I think) indicate that those same titles aren't utilizing much of the 360's power either. If they were, then they probably wouldn't be so easily portable to begin with (that they were mainly running on the Xenon's PPE - Which is a cinch to port for the Cell PPE. They're practically cousins).

Is that good? If all we're going to get is underpowered games and under-utilitized systems (with a unique first party title here and there), then what's the stop the Wii from kicking ass in the end? It's much more simple to innovate with -- without crippling future porting possibilities to boot.

Just some thoughts...

[Azazel]

Well, being EA, they have to take it easy so that they can squeeze out x number of years worth of incremental upgrades.

I'm only half joking.


Though, I do forsee a lot of lowest-common-denominator happening, hopefully not including the Wii too much (as CoD3 looked like ass).

[stray]

It's much easier to tweak the Wii to it's limit. It's only half the power of one of the cores in the 360, and significantly slower than the PS3's main core as well. Plus, since it's basically still a GC design, developers are already quite familiar with it (this goes without mentioning all of the lessons learned about the PPC through the 360 and PS3 as well). Coupling that with the upgrades it has over the GC will help make average titles look as good or better than RE4, I think.

All in all, it's far less complicated to maximize potential out of the Wii. What might be a half assed effort on the 360 will be the peak potential of the Wii (but the Wiimote will set it apart obviously).

As for the other two consoles, it's going to have to come down to exclusives (Titles that are exclusive by design, that is. Not because of marketing). I don't see how else they expect to differentiate between each other. The cool thing is, considering the even more hands on nature and degree of attention needed for mp development, these hypothetical exclusive titles could be amazing and less prone to error and lack of oversight.

[Velorath]

If I was really being a fanboi, I'd make up shit about the 360's inferiority. Which I don't. My only beef with it is that 1) Microsoft eventually wants to bring you the homogeneous and sacrificial upgrade cycle from hell and 2) It's a bit of a one trick pony when it comes to exclusives.

In that respect that you've made your bias against MS known a couple of times here though you are being a bit of a fanboi (at least in the sense that you seem to think Sony and Nintendo are any better).  Adding an HDMI port, selling an HD-DVD add-on, or making larger drives available is no more of an upgrade cycle from hell than what Sony did with the PS2 last generation.  Look up the hardware revisions for the PS2 sometime, even just the ones done before the slim PS2 came out.  Hell, Nintendo removed component from later model Gamecubes.  I'd say that's worse than adding HDMI to 360's.

As far as being a one trick pony when it comes to exclusives, maybe you're just looking at the over-hyped exclusives too much as an example.  Some exclusives that don't find the "guys with guns" stereotype:

Already released:

- Viva Pinata (don't know how the hell you'd describe that one)
- Dead Rising
- Chromehounds, 99 Nights (yeah, both got mixed reviews but again, they don't fall into your stereotype and who knows yet which PS3 exclusives will be any good)

Not yet released:

- Culdcept Saga (card/strategy game)
- Settlers of Catan (great fucking boardgame, being made into an XBox live game with a couple other boardgames.  Yes I'm excited about this.)
- Project Sylpheed (shooter by SquareEnix.  And by shooter I don't mean FPS, I mean like Colony Wars type shit)
- Halo Wars (yeah yeah, it's Halo, guys with guns and everything, but it's an RTS.  If Bungie has enough of a hand in it to make it play anything like Myth I'll be happy).
- Fozra 2, Moto GP, PGR (racing)
- Blue Dragon, Lost Odessey, Cry On, Spectral Diario, Two Worlds, Eternal Sonata (Japanese-style RPGs)
- Fuzion Frenzy 2 (party game)
- Dead or Alive series (fighting games)
- Too Human (not sure what this would be classified as)

That's almost 20 exclusives (and there's a lot of games I left out) that don't fall into your one trick pony trap.  It's also a little unfair to roll Mass Effect in with various shooters just because of the way the game looks, especially when you don't seem to criticize MGS4, DMC4, Resistance, Mercenaries 2, or Eight Days, for all being high-profile PS3 exclusives that involve heavy use of gunplay, regardless of whether or not any of them actually play alike.

[ahoythematey]

Too Human belongs to that nefarious of genres known as vaporware.

[stray]

Adding an HDMI port, selling an HD-DVD add-on, or making larger drives available is no more of an upgrade cycle from hell than what Sony did with the PS2 last generation.

I never said I had a problem with an HD-DVD add on or hard drives per se. My complaint was if they started focusing on HD-DVD as the medium for their games, or started requiring a hard drive for games to function. That would be bullshit, since it would screw over anyone without them, and just confuse customers (especially the type who don't post at sites like this). If you're going to make those components a crucial part of your gaming strategy, then do it at launch.

They haven't done that though -- When those issues were brought up, it was in response to someone thinking they could.

As for HDMI, it's not the big issue on my list like it may be with others here.

Though again, if they do add it, it's still screwing with current customers (but not in the same way changing an entire medium would).

[stray]

In that respect that you've made your bias against MS known a couple of times here though you are being a bit of a fanboi (at least in the sense that you seem to think Sony and Nintendo are any better).

Hell yeah I think they're better. No shame in that. Since when did Microsoft become cool?

Don't answer that.

Just so you know though, this bias against Microsoft isn't just about games. I've hated them for years. Mainly because I've been a Mac user going on 20 years now, and because I think Windows is a piece of shit (yeah, it's that simple).

As for game consoles specifically, I'm still able to (begrudgingly) give them some credit. I'm not the Sony fanboi you think I am.

For one, their development tools are great. How Sony manages to pull off anything (especially against this new competition) boggles my mind.

[Kageru]

- Viva Pinata (don't know how the hell you'd describe that one)

Microsoft spending a tiny fraction of their immense pile-o-cash gained from being a predatory monopoly on trying to widen the scope of their console beyond teenage males?

Heck, the damn thing has a full page add ((c) microsoft) in the NGamer mag I bought today.

[Yegolev]

Huge reply, lost it.  Funny how that saps your will to restate your awesome ideas.

Hand-optimization now, improved compiler or perhaps a separate PS2-style optimizer later.  Like most other compilers, I assume.  Launch games will eternally look like shit compared to later-life-cycle games.  Reference any other console.

I believe in Software Superiority.  Sony fucked up by losing the exclusives.  Those ex-PS3 games go to 360 since Wii isn't an option for big and shiny games.  Also: Live Arcade.  This means 360 will beat PS3 unless Sony can reverse the software drain.

The Wii is in some other race.  I'd pay for an overclocked Cube, plus my son would love it.  In my house, it is going to be Console #2.

[Velorath]

In that respect that you've made your bias against MS known a couple of times here though you are being a bit of a fanboi (at least in the sense that you seem to think Sony and Nintendo are any better).

Hell yeah I think they're better. No shame in that. Since when did Microsoft become cool?

Don't answer that.

Just so you know though, this bias against Microsoft isn't just about games. I've hated them for years. Mainly because I've been a Mac user going on 20 years now, and because I think Windows is a piece of shit (yeah, it's that simple).

As for game consoles specifically, I'm still able to (begrudgingly) give them some credit. I'm not the Sony fanboi you think I am.

For one, their development tools are great. How Sony manages to pull off anything (especially against this new competition) boggles my mind.

MS never became cool.  I used to be an idealistic Mac user myself for many years, but I just realized they weren't the devil I liked to think they were.  They certainly can't be any worse than Nintendo, who had their own share of shady business practices back when they were on top.