Mana screw/flood - in need of fixing?

[Margalis]

Recently I've been getting *really* frustrated by mana screw and flood. It seems to affect my games way too often.

Today I did a draft where the first 2 games were very fun and competitive. In game 3 my opponent was stuck on 3 land the entire game.

In the next round in the first game I drew *all* my lands. *All*. I had a Greenseeker helping me but even so, when I had 3 or 4 lands left in my deck I *still* drew them. I literally did not draw a single non-land card after about my third draw. When I had only 5 lands left in my deck I drew a land. When I had 3 left? Land. 1 left? Land.

Next game I drew no green mana and basically all of my green cards. (Black was my primary color) So I was sitting on swamps and had nothing I could cast. With one forest I could have cast greenseeker or search for tomorrow...but it never came. I was never in either game.

So that was 3 out of 5 games in my latest draft that were basically unwinnable for one side or the other.

Not to turn this into a bitch thread - does this need fixing? Can it be fixed? I was told that the WOW game has solved these issues to some degree, so I looked into it. In WOW you can use any card in your hand as a "land." (Resource in WOW terms) If you choose to use them as a resource they are only resources. (Not creatures or whatever else) In addition there are quest cards that are resources only but also can be activated to give you some one-time boost. So essentially quests are super-lands and any other card in your hand can be a regular land.

What this means is you cannot be resource screwed, and while you can be quest flooded people tend to play few quests so it isn't an issue. (I've seen 8 thrown around)

It seems to me that in my recent MTGO games, both drafts and sealed, at least 50% of my games are decided solely by flood or screw on one side or the other. That just is not fun. Especially not when you have to pay $ each time you pay.

I don't know if I have just been having bad luck recently but it is really starting to annoy me and sap the fun out of the game.

[Strazos]

I think it's more a problem with the shuffler.

I don't think I like how resources are in the WoW TCG. It just seems a bit too easy. It looks to be a bit too forgiving for bad deck construction.

[Margalis]

Well...I just lost 2 games in a row, first one I mulliganned down to zero and conceded. Had 1 land in opening hand followed by no land at all until I had 2 lands as my only 2 cards. Next game I had four mountains in play and all green in hand, got down to 8 life before I cast anything...fun fun fun.

I used to think the talk of the shuffler was silly but now I'm not so sure. Maybe the problem is that it is truly random whereas most people don't shuffle in a truly random way. Who knows? It does seem like I get constantly screwed though.

The WOW way does seem a bit simple but there has to be some happy medium.

[Strazos]

How do you Not shuffle randomly?

[hal]

land pockets are a reality online. and somehow it is just not right. the only thing you can say is it happens to everybody.

[Mr. Right]

Automated Mulligan?  You get one free Mulligan, if you don't have 2 mana in your hand after the first Mulligan  (detected by the game) you can re-shuffle to a full hand.  It would be harder to do in real life, maybe you would have to show your hand to your opponent before you can re-shuffle to a full hand.  Obviously it should be implemented the same way online and in real life.

Hell, sell them the idea by proposing a 50$ official automated battery shuffler for the physical cards, followed by a premium deluxe black and gold shuffler for 75$.  If the are not yet convinced, propose the integrated battery packs strategy.  The first models could have a really shitty battery pack that would fails 2 weeks after the extended guaranty.  That way, you would end up with a net 100$ from the early adopters.  Don't forget to change the color once in a while to keep the value of older models and sell every single models to compulsive collectors (a good % percentage of your platerbase).

What about a free Mulligan for one ticket online??


[ x ] "public domain" disclaimer

[Merusk]

I used to think the talk of the shuffler was silly but now I'm not so sure. Maybe the problem is that it is truly random whereas most people don't shuffle in a truly random way.

The 'people don't randomly shuffle while the computer DOES' is prettymuch what I was thinking.  Shuffler problems is what killed this game for me. I had a streak like you've just had, and I was done with it.  It was only a once in a while distraction anyway.

[Margalis]

Yeah it is really just not fun. I just played in the last round of a draft. First game was very competitive, barely lost. Second game I boarded in a couple things - and am deal an all-land hand playing first. Mull to 6 for a hand with a few swamps, one black guy and some red cards. Should I mulligan again? I think about it and decide not to, because I only need one red source or some black cards in the meantime to get going - and of course the entire game I draw nothing but red cards and swamps, no black guys to cast and no mountains. Meanwhile opponent's 3-color monstrosity is casting red green and blue cards by turn 3.

Sometimes you just go on these runs where you just get constantly screwed and flooded. At least this time it happened in the draft finals instead of the first round.

The mulligan rules are what they are so people don't really abuse them in aggro and combo decks. A free mulligan in a constructed deck is very powerful. But in limited you can't really abuse it as much. One free mulligan for each player each round would probably make things a lot more fun overall. You would see more competitive games and less one guy is never even in the game to begin with.

Now I know you can build decks to be more and less resistant to screw and flood, but there are limits, especially in limited. In best 2 of 3 having one game a round decided by screw/flood is way too much.

[eldaec]

If you do the maths properly you'll probably find it's happening exactly as often as it should.

Since TS I've had opponents getting screwed more than they ever did in Rav or Kami block, because TS seems to have more double and triple colour cards than usual, and less card draw and mana fixing than Ravnica.

TS draft really wants to be played with one major colour and one minor colour.

Sticking to that strategy whenever possible, I find I win enough games by out-mana-ing my opponent for me to be all in favour of keeping everything exactly how it is. ;)

[Strazos]

Yeah, I almost never play tri-color. It was rare that I did that even in Ravnica, with all the color fixing there.

[Johny Cee]

If you do the maths properly you'll probably find it's happening exactly as often as it should.

Since TS I've had opponents getting screwed more than they ever did in Rav or Kami block, because TS seems to have more double and triple colour cards than usual, and less card draw and mana fixing than Ravnica.

TS draft really wants to be played with one major colour and one minor colour.

Sticking to that strategy whenever possible, I find I win enough games by out-mana-ing my opponent for me to be all in favour of keeping everything exactly how it is. ;)

Bolded for emphasis.

I haven't had much in the way of problems,  or really noticed it in my games.  Occasionally, I'll keep a hand of 3 mountains/all black cards,  but that's my fault for being an ass.

I'd tell the story about getting beat two games in a row by the dude with the Empty the Warrens deck (and only one copy of the card),  but I've inflicted it on Marg too often.

[Johny Cee]

Yeah, I almost never play tri-color. It was rare that I did that even in Ravnica, with all the color fixing there.

Tri-color was easily doable in Rav (duh!), 8th, and 9th if you stayed away from double colored cards.

TS is really, really, really unforgiving,  unless you draft a few of the mana filters.

[Strazos]

I was talking only about limited really. Sure, it was doable...with the right cards, if you happen to open/draft them. I still tried not to, for the sake of gameplay consistency.

[hal]

I am such a noob I really don't have any business saying anything. But in draft mono with a splash (that you know you will never get) would be as far as I would reach. TS offers very little in mana fix. If I had a chance to pick it, ya, I would try. But the core discussion. Is the game about building a better deck? or getting a better draw? I am afaraid I find the latter  more often than the former. Yes in the long term the better deck will win more. In the short term the draw decides the winner.