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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Everquest 2  |  Topic: EQ2 level progression & race: template vs. cookie cutter 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: EQ2 level progression & race: template vs. cookie cutter  (Read 12922 times)
El Gallo
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Reply #35 on: August 04, 2004, 04:06:27 PM

I meant "everyone picks one template" as "each person picks the same [uber] template" not "each person will select one template" though the way I wrote it was not very clear.  It's an exaggeration of course because there will be a few different uber templates in all likelihood.

Quote
So different skin on exactly same spreadsheet is all variety you want?


Like I said, I like customization for taste/style/flash, but I will take a "balanced class system with some stylistic choices" over an "imbalanced skill system with kajillions of meaningful choices" any day of the week.  Now, I might be into "balanced skill system with kajillions of meaningful choices" but I would also be into "Salma Hayek sitting on my lap as I type this" and consider both to be equally likely.

This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
geldonyetich
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Reply #36 on: August 05, 2004, 01:03:27 AM

Just had a chance to read that email with that EQ promotion.   Heh, well at least it'll make going to the movie theatre interesting.

I've done a little research into Everquest's character advancement system and it looks fairly interesting.   I'm a little afraid of some similarities to Lineage 2, however.  

Like Lineage 2, Everquest has branched class advancement.  Meaning you start out as a basic verison of a Fighter, Mage, Priest, or Scout and then as you advance as one of those, it unlocks other classes you can advance into.   For example, a Warrior (Fighter) can become a Berzerker or a Monk.  A Crusader (another kind of Fighter?) can become a Paladin or a Shadow Knight.

I'm pretty sure how it works is you start out as a Fighter, Mage, Priest or Scout.  Then, after you gain some level, you advance to the next kind of class you want.  (A Fighter can become a Warrior) and from there you advance to another class within that class (A Warrior can become a Berzerker).

The really complicated thing is that there may or may not be considerably more flexibility to it.   Apparently, once you have chosen an archetype, you can choose to gain levels for any of the classes within that archetype you qualify for.   For example, lets say you choose to be a Fighter, Warrior ,Berzerker.   Next time you gain a level, you can choose to put a level into Fighter, Warrior, or Berzerker.  

Each profession inherits the abilities of the profession before it, so as a Berzerker you'll still know your Fighter's Martial/Weapon Knowledge skill and be able to wear Light armor type in addition to your Warrior's Medium Armor type and Berzerker's Heavy Plate Armor type.

The full extent of the flexibility evades me.  I know that in addition to whatever profession you have chosen, you can *also* be an Artisan, and this is handled on a seperate tree entirely that does not interfere with your main combat class.   What evades me is that I'm not certain just how far back you can invest in the other professions.   If you are a Fighter, can you also choose to invest in Mage, Priest, or Scout?   At one point I read a description that made me think this may have been the case.    However, it's completely possible that once you have made a choice, you're stuck with only investing further in that choice.   (For example, if you've chosen to be a Berzerker you can't start investing in being a Bruiser.)   At this point, I don't know which it is.

So basically, templates are the least of our worries.  So far as I can tell, you're pretty much hard-wired into pre-existing classes and not allowed to customize them.  But, on the other hand, you're given *some choice* as to WHICH of those classes you want to gain levels in.  

It appears that last tier is a choice between good or evil.  This is probably where you decide if you're on Freeport (Evil) or Luclin (Good)'s side.  I smell PvP endgame and heavy class restriction based on which you decide to go with.

Hmm, I'd probably shoot for Mage->Enchanter->Illusionist or Mage->Summoner->Conjurer myself.

Alluvian
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Reply #37 on: August 05, 2004, 09:00:56 AM

Luclin is the moon, which is shattered during this time period.  The two cities warring are Qeynos (good) and Freeport (evil).

I am going to miss all the other towns if they are not there anymore.  I hope there are some other towns in the game, I suspect there will be for restocking puposes at least.  Although I doubt most of the smaller old towns will still be intact.

I wonder if Erudin and Faydwer (sp?) still exist.

I just wish I had a crystal ball that would tell me actual video game release dates.  I want it for a lot of games.
jpark
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Reply #38 on: August 05, 2004, 09:11:47 AM

The class descriptions are somewhat intriguing - but we have so much more information on WoW at this point.

The have done a nice re-work of the scout/ranger... group.  Unlike EQ, in EQ2 their stealth plays a much more important role for groups now which is really nice to see.  When a ranger/assassin/ rogue etc. goes into stealth mode, my understanding is that it affects the entire group - a real asset for travel and getting deeper into dungeons without trash mob clearing.

They also finally dealt with the hybrid wars - e.g. Paladin vs. Warrior or Shaman vs. Cleric.  All healers heal equally (fury, cleric, shaman etc.) and all tanks can tank equally (Pally, SK, warrior, monk, brawler).  This strikes me as a good step to putting these wars to rest (although witness scrapper vs. tank problem in CoH).

Combat will be very different.  I am told that not only will zerging be the rule with opponents far outnumbering the party, but all party members will pretty much be under attack.  I saw this in one of their videos - when the dragon fought the party - it seemeed all party members were subjected to the same AoE attack each round.  Raises the question of what tanks are supposed to do in this dynamic - but the combat wheel may provide the clue.

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Sky
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Reply #39 on: August 05, 2004, 09:16:50 AM

Speaking of stealth, the fade effect seen in one of the videos is pretty cool, at first I thought a caster had a pet...and then the rogue became visible after making a backstab. I got a chuckle when the mob instantly turned around to her. The dwarf guy then must've taunted it back, so the combat dynamic looks similar to EQ.

jpark
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Reply #40 on: August 05, 2004, 09:22:12 AM

Quote from: Sky
Speaking of stealth, the fade effect seen in one of the videos is pretty cool, at first I thought a caster had a pet...and then the rogue became visible after making a backstab. I got a chuckle when the mob instantly turned around to her. The dwarf guy then must've taunted it back, so the combat dynamic looks similar to EQ.


Maybe - or the combat wheel played the role.  My take is that the combat wheel "suggests" an order of abilities to be used by the party in a fight - which if followed, opens the door for extra damage or some such.  The combat wheel may have indicated the next move not to be taunt, but some other maneuver.

I find this intriguing as hell.  In EQ you always slowed (shaman), always taunted (warrior) or nuked (mage).  The combat wheel changes this - apparently.  The action you take is now based on the sequence of others - which you can follow or not.

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Alluvian
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Reply #41 on: August 05, 2004, 09:24:21 AM

Combat seems more like FFXI to me.  Mob aggro that you 'lock in' to your group upon attacking, etc...
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Reply #42 on: August 05, 2004, 10:00:46 AM

Quote from: Alluvian
Combat seems more like FFXI to me.  Mob aggro that you 'lock in' to your group upon attacking, etc...


That and the "combat wheel" would imply a sort of Renkei system as in FFXI.

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kaid
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Reply #43 on: August 05, 2004, 10:04:46 AM

Slight clarification on how the classes are designed in eq2.

Commoner

This is the profession you all start as it gives you the ability to dabble in all powers from combat to priestly magic to stealth. This gives you a feel for how each archtype works so you can make an informed decision on what you want to be.

Archtype

Once you make up your mind you become an archtype like scout/warrior/mage/priest. No matter what else you branch off into you are ALWAYS your archtype. These are your bread and butter core powers and you are always gaining skills and powers in this archtype throughout your career. It is not a choice on which you wish to level as you level you become a more powerful person of your archtype.

Class

This is where you start getting into more diversity. You start picking up more unique and diverse talents usually focusing on an aspect of your archtype. Say if you are a cleric you focus more on direct heals while shaman focus more on wards which are damage absorbers that also heal when their duration is up. Note that you also still are gaining powers in your archtype so even though a cleric and shaman focus on different things their core abilities are ramping up as well so they can always fill in and do a priests job in a group.

After you choose your class you ARE that class for the rest of your career and are always gaining skills and powers in it.


Subclass

This is where you are really picking up the more unique and diverse skills. This is your final(unless they add more later) profession pick.

Note that while you level and are gaining your subclass powers and becoming a mighty inquisitor or something you are still becoming a more powerful priest and cleric as well.


On top of this you also can if you wish choose one of two basic crafter the builder or the scholar.

The builder is basically the class for people who want to make armor/weapons/furniture and other items of a more solid nature.

Researchers are for folks who like making potions, researching languages and creating spells.


At some point you then can choose one of two subclasses to the main artisan classes.


So at one time  you can potentially be gaining powers from FIVE different skill trees.



The goal in eq2 is instead of the holy trinity of warrior/cleric/chanter that you will instead in a normal 6 man group want 1 warrior archtype/ 1 priest archtype/ 1 scout archtype/ and 1 mage archtype and two of whatever you feel best suites your needs. Different classes and subclasses may be more important for certain things but at their heart anybody of a certain archtype CAN do their main job.

So if you see a monk you can expect them to be able to main tank raids just as you would a paladin or a warrior.




How this will work out in play who knows but they have an early version of this in EQOA and from most reports I have seen it works well as a balancing tool while still having some very good diversity between classes in the same archtype.


Kaid
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Reply #44 on: August 05, 2004, 10:18:11 AM

I tend to not like the general to specific class progression because I think most people know right from the beginning what they want to play.

At least without a skill system, we won't have the DAOC and Shadowbane archer issues, where rogue base didn't have any skills archers needed to put points into, so you were trying to make it to the level to get your specialization class without spending any skill points at all.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
kaid
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Reply #45 on: August 05, 2004, 10:30:40 AM

I would agree with you Numtini personally I know what class I want to play right away. Then again we are not the "norm" we read up on the forums and understand what we like to do.

SOE is aiming EQ2 alot at the newbie market and they want to teach people what the various powers of classes before forcing you to make a choice you may or may not understand.

Meh I can live with it and I understand why they are setting it up that way.
jpark
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Reply #46 on: August 05, 2004, 11:52:39 AM

Quote from: Numtini
I tend to not like the general to specific class progression because I think most people know right from the beginning what they want to play.


By the sounds of it is better to be undecided - since it looks like the only decision players will have to make regarding their class :P

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Reply #47 on: August 05, 2004, 12:54:22 PM

Quote from: jpark
Quote from: Numtini
I tend to not like the general to specific class progression because I think most people know right from the beginning what they want to play.


By the sounds of it is better to be undecided - since it looks like the only decision players will have to make regarding their class :P


jpark... English is not a first language for you, I hope?

Numtini - While I can sorta understand where you're coming from, as someone said above, they are trying to expand the genre playerbase with EQ2, not just move everyone from EQLive over.  They are aiming to make the newbie experience very friendly, very open, so people who don't know what they will find fun, have a chance to play a bit with everything before picking a class(or 3 or 5) whose playstyle they hate.

Frankly, I think this kind of thing is a good idea.  Some people who already had a good idea of what they thought they wanted to play may change their minds once they get to play with other abilities, I think.  Heck, in EQ, the playstyle of most classes changes over the course of leveling the character, often without warning unless you read boards or other guides to your chosen class.  The Wizard class changes quite a bit between the pre-root era, to getting enough mana to regularly use root, to getting snare and some decent AE spells.  You could call the first couple levels, where melee is more effective than your spells, 'commoner', then you chose 'mage' and have a few effective nukes, and wizard when your nukes and root become a useful technique, and some further thing... 'quad-kiter', or whatever, once you've got the spells for that technique.  Sounds the same as the EQ2 system to me, with the exception that while that is more or less the only path for the EQLive wizard, EQ2 plans to have multiple options besides 'quad-kiter' and 'group exp leech' for the class.  And they seem to loudly announce when changes to the primary playstyle are coming, as opposed to you realizing this after a few deaths when your old technique doesn't work on the new mobs you have to kill for exp, or you get some new type of spell when you level, that you have no idea how to use.

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Reply #48 on: August 05, 2004, 02:01:33 PM

Gah! Don't get me started (again) on how they turned my evil master of the undead into a mana cleric :(

Now...if there had been an option to be a twitch necro or a more powerful summoner or a more effective DoT'er....

kaid
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Reply #49 on: August 05, 2004, 02:13:32 PM

Funny you should mention twitching:P

One of the core archtype abilities of the mage archtype is power replenishment spells.

Also there is no mana in eq2 everybody uses power to fire off their special abilities so not only will you be twitching the clerics but the warriors as well.

We shall see how that works in practice if it becomes the all consuming chore twitching was for necros or if it is a bonus instead.

Kaid
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Reply #50 on: August 05, 2004, 11:12:09 PM

Quote from: kaid
Funny you should mention twitching:P

One of the core archtype abilities of the mage archtype is power replenishment spells.

Also there is no mana in eq2 everybody uses power to fire off their special abilities so not only will you be twitching the clerics but the warriors as well.

We shall see how that works in practice if it becomes the all consuming chore twitching was for necros or if it is a bonus instead.

Kaid


Well, that system is basically what CoH does with Endurance.  Frankly, endurance as power-source seems to make more sense based on magic used in books in movies(mages who've expended a lot of magical power feel 'tired' typically, as does a fighter who's just killed half a dozen orcs.  Why are they typically different stats?).  Hero, my favorite of the PnP systems, does this too.

As far as 'power replenishment', it could be more a 'clarity'-like power, similar to the endurance regen that empathy users get in CoH, or enchanter's Clarity line, that is regen, not a 'heal' spell for your mana bar.

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kaid
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Reply #51 on: August 06, 2004, 10:16:25 AM

I have no problem with everybody using the same "energy" pool to do specials or magic. From the sample spells on the eq2 site it looks like there is a combo of buffs to raise the ammount of max energy you have, regens like clarity, and some direct energy transfers like necro twitchs.

If it is done well it should be a fine mechanic. I just don't want to see if there is one mage in a group them spending their entire time doing nothing but feeding power to other people.

Kaid
Sable Blaze
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Reply #52 on: August 06, 2004, 10:20:04 AM

The "power" concept is straight from EQOA. That's how that game fundamentally works. This is a good sign. The further from EQlive they can get, the better.

I actually have hope for the melee classes now. EQlive is so badly broken in this regard I don't think it can recover again. EQOA, however, has totally functional tank and melee classes. They all have a role and are fully interchangable.

If this is the route the EQ2 classes are taking, then I think the game will be OK, at least in regards to class balance.
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Reply #53 on: August 06, 2004, 10:23:47 AM

The "power" concept is straight from EQOA. That's how that game fundamentally works. This is a good sign. The further from EQlive they can get, the better.

I actually have hope for the melee classes now. EQlive is so badly broken in this regard I don't think it can recover again. EQOA, however, has totally functional tank and melee classes. They all have a role and are fully interchangable.

If this is the route the EQ2 classes are taking, then I think the game will be OK, at least in regards to class balance.
kaid
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Reply #54 on: August 06, 2004, 10:26:34 AM

Yup as I have mentioned previously the archtype/class system is an upgraded version of what they used in EQOA. EQOA was their test bed for some balancing ideas and the system was expanded and extrapolated on in what they are doing for EQ2.

This sounds like a good thing to me most of what I have read for EQOA they did a good job on class/archtype balance and most of the boards I read seemed pretty pleased with how it worked in play.

Kaid
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Reply #55 on: August 06, 2004, 10:32:28 AM

EQOA is a far better game than EQlive.

It's only problem is endemic to the platform. Aside from issues with what the PS2 can or can't do, consoles attract the lowest common denominator in gaming. The community in EQOA was simply impossible to deal with. Hopefully, EQ2s system specs are so horrendous that it keeps as much of this lot away as possible.
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Reply #56 on: August 06, 2004, 11:38:30 AM

Quote
I just don't want to see if there is one mage in a group them spending their entire time doing nothing but feeding power to other people.

That was pretty much my core problem with twitching folks. I'm along so other people have more mana to play their characters? Nope, I'm going to be tossing my own spells, kthx. And if someone bitched about it, I'd cast Ignite Bones on the raid mobs.

Meanwhile, to the people who played regularly with me and didn't have preconceived notions of how I should be playing, I was considered the most adaptable and versatile necro around.

Close minded people who try to dictate how others should behave suck imo. I saw lots of that in EQ.

kaid
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Reply #57 on: August 06, 2004, 11:57:22 AM

Twitching was a useful tool and in our group our necro usually did a great job of twitching somebody if he saw them struggling with mana load. It was never demanded nor did we want nor expect him to stop casting his stuff.

Due to his regen of mana in general he just had alot more mana than the rest so to quicken downtime he would slap some twitches to give somebody a boost. As a shaman I would keep him perma regening hp so he could run his full bore life to mana conversion power all the time so it worked great.

I would never want nor expect somebody though to do nothing but turn into a living battery for others. I have seen our necro get taken to raids and made to do the twitch job and it has to be the most boring god awful horrible game play.

I will be making a mage archtype as my main but if anybody expects me to do nothing but twitch them they are going to get an earth elemental shoved up their ass. Boosts as needed sure and buffs deffinatly but I will not be a twitch bot.


kaid
Sky
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Reply #58 on: August 06, 2004, 01:21:04 PM

Yes, I'm mostly referring to larger scale encounters, which my guild got hooked on months before I quit. There was a definite correlation.

Hanging out on top of the Tower of Frozen Shadows with my buddy the eqholic's wizard and our druid friend was still fun, mostly because at the time he had moved away and it was the only time we would hang out.

Same reason I'm compelled to look into EQ2.

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Reply #59 on: August 06, 2004, 06:29:25 PM

Quote from: kaid
Due to his regen of mana in general he just had alot more mana than the rest so to quicken downtime he would slap some twitches to give somebody a boost. As a shaman I would keep him perma regening hp so he could run his full bore life to mana conversion power all the time so it worked great.


That's cause DoTs don't (or didn't when I was playing) stack. If they did, necros and shamans would be busy using their mana to do damage rather than just casting support spells in a raid.
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Reply #60 on: August 06, 2004, 07:20:06 PM

Quote from: Trippy
That's cause DoTs don't (or didn't when I was playing) stack. If they did, necros and shamans would be busy using their mana to do damage rather than just casting support spells in a raid.


Shaman DOTs still don't stack so having more than 1 Shaman for anything in a raid is kinda useless.
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Reply #61 on: August 07, 2004, 01:08:23 PM

Quote from: Shockeye
Quote from: Trippy
That's cause DoTs don't (or didn't when I was playing) stack. If they did, necros and shamans would be busy using their mana to do damage rather than just casting support spells in a raid.


Shaman DOTs still don't stack so having more than 1 Shaman for anything in a raid is kinda useless.


So the dots from all other classes stack, but shaman dots don't?  Do they have some kind of debuff component to them? Your pure damage ones should stack, but damage & debuffs don't.  Hell druid DOT lines even stack with themselves so I can drop all 3 of the "Swarming Death" varieity with each other if I were so inclined.   The same with my Necro, other than the lifetap varieity of DOTs.

Re: Alluvian's missing the towns.   The last thing I saw about the old towns was a comment that the Halfthings finally took over Neriak after the trolls pushed the DEs out.   I expect similar stories from all the races after reading the first bit of lore on the EQ2 chargen disk.

As for EQ2 itself, I've almost got more hope in it being a fun long-term game than WoW.  I'm still hesitant because SOE has had a few cases of not knowing what to do in the past.  That and, as Haemish pointed out,  a lot of the talk about EQ2 tends to focus on what EQ1 is like.  Should enough people get into the game expecting EQ1 and complain enough to force it down that path it would be a BAD thing.

   I do suspect someone at SOE is watching over the games and keeping them in focus, though.  (The notion that EQ1 is for raiding, and EQ2 is for casual-friendly fun)  What lead me to believe this is the way the EQlive team entertained notions of putting soloable content into EQ1 until very recently. Something i'd always figgured would be the sole domain of EQ2, and was initially one of the strengths they'd been advertising.  Now recently it was stated that this content wasn't going to happen in EQ1.

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Reply #62 on: August 08, 2004, 12:14:14 AM

Quote
That and, as Haemish pointed out, a lot of the talk about EQ2 tends to focus on what EQ1 is like.


I've only seen a few movies about EQ2, and read a little bit of what the devs have said about it.  In every case, they seem adamant about emphasizing how EQ2 is different from EQLive in gameplay.  I don't know if they are succeeding with this PR campaign, but they definately seem to be taking a "This is EverQuest Two, not EverQuest Too" tack with all the interview and releases.

Now, whether that has any effect on potential player expectations for the game, I don't know.  Perhaps once some things come out of beta we'll know more from people who've played both games.  Hopefully there won't be too much reaction to people in beta from the Legends server. I suspect they won't like the game, I mean, they're already paying $40/month for a game that is supposed to be really different.

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El Gallo
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Reply #63 on: August 08, 2004, 09:15:43 PM

shaman dots stack fine (both multiple dots of the same line and the exact same dot from different shamans)

they do, however, tend to either take way too long (disease), hog up spell slots that aren't available with huge recast times (magic) or have ridiculously disproportional aggro (poison), making them  fairly situational on modern raids (targets don't live long).

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Reply #64 on: August 08, 2004, 10:00:53 PM

The EQ2 class stuff sounds horrible to me.

So basically, I choose a vague path without knowing much about it. Then I choose a vague subpath. Then, I choose another vague subpath. When I finally get to the end, I find out my class is boring and cry.

Isn't this one of those gotcha's that everyone knows about now? It's like roots in PVP. Don't make the player make an irreversible choice without knowing what they are getting themselves into.

I know the FFXI job switching breaks character, but it rules. No, it doesn't make sense from a "realism" perspecitve, that I'm a monk one second and black mage the next. But from a "games should be fun" perspective it makes total sense.

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Reply #65 on: August 08, 2004, 10:18:02 PM

Quote from: Margalis
So basically, I choose a vague path without knowing much about it. Then I choose a vague subpath. Then, I choose another vague subpath. When I finally get to the end, I find out my class is boring and cry.

It's not neccessarily that bad.  Under the old system, you pick your end class right away.  If you happen to find out at level 20 you hate it, time to restart over again from scratch.   Under this new system, you can sort of gently choose the direction you like to go.   You start out as a commoner, playing with base Fighter, Mage, Scout, and Priest powers and decide from there which direction you want to go.  If you decide to play a Mage, you have a limited amount of base spell abilities abilities available, and from here you can decide which you would rather put heavier focus on when you make your next class pick.

Using this gradual change system, you should never end up in a situation where you have a profession that does not truly match your interests, especially if you take your time to think things out before making any choices.   (Which you should have pleanty of time to do, considering there's probably level restrictions on when you can make those choices.)

I consider it an improvement from Everquest, but I agree that the FFXI system has considerably more freedom.   Under the FFXI system you can, any time you're visiting your apartment, think to yourself, "Hey, you know what?  I think I'd like to play a Black Mage for awhile."   Boom: you're downgraded to the level of how well you know your Black Mage.   However, later, you can switch back to your original class if you decide you preferred that and instantly regain those levels.   Other than gained levels (and massive time investment), there's totally no obligation to stick to any one class path.    Really, it makes me pine for the game just talking about it as it was a very relaxing and satisfying hack and slasher, and I haven't even mentioned subclassing yet.    

Sometimes I hear a piece of information that makes it sound sort of like you can, in Everquest 2, go back to previous classes and change your alignment.   However, I haven't hread anything solid here.   If that were so, EQ2 would be like FFXI except with branched advancement.

Come to think of it, there may be even less freedom in EQ2 than you think.  The last profession choice is, I believe, alignment dependant.  So the moment you have chosen Crusader, you're stuck with ending up with Paladin or Shadow Knight depending on if you started out on Qeynos or Freeport.   Another thought - originality prior to those level limits is going to suck.   At level 1, *everybody's going to have the same class* (Commoner).   It won't be until the last transition point that the most variety takes place.

Of course, the gameplay is what it really comes down to it.   FFXI has skillchains and heavy elemental emphesis going for it.  If EQ2 can't match that level of player involvement, the game fails by default in my book.

If I had the money for it, I think I'd go resub to FFXI right now, but then there's the matter of what to do with SWG.   I wonder why the majority of the F13'ers aren't playing FFXI anymore - I seem to recall something about higher levels being a PITA.   Granted, the potential catassitude within FFXI, stemming from the fact that anyone could potentially make a character who is maxxed in every single profession in the game, churns the stomach.   Nobody but permanent Cyber-Cafe inhabitants have that much time on their hands.   While we're on the topic of FFXI, I suppose I could also mention that FFXI is the only full priced PC MMORPG for sale at EB-Games right now: There's a sign of success for you.

Trippy
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Reply #66 on: August 09, 2004, 03:28:30 AM

Quote from: geldonyetich
Using this gradual change system, you should never end up in a situation where you have a profession that does not truly match your interests, especially if you take your time to think things out before making any choices.   (Which you should have pleanty of time to do, considering there's probably level restrictions on when you can make those choices.)


In EQ, though, if you just consider the single group gameplay (end game class role can be different -- in some cases painfully different) you learn how your class is going to play very quickly, like in the first 8 levels or so. With this generalist to specialist type class progression it might take you longer before you figure out this class line isn't for you since you won't experience the specialist gameplay till later.

Quote

While we're on the topic of FFXI, I suppose I could also mention that FFXI is the only full priced PC MMORPG for sale at EB-Games right now: There's a sign of success for you.


CoH is still full priced.
jpark
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Reply #67 on: August 09, 2004, 08:30:36 AM

Quote from: Margalis
The EQ2 class stuff sounds horrible to me.


Me too but to be fair we have almost no information.  WoW sounds like it has a lot more customization by way of choices you make as you level (attribute points, talents).  So far I really have not heard anything about a particular EQ2 class that evoked the "neat!" response.  By way of counter example, the Priest, Warrior, Paladin or Hunter abilities in WoW evoke that "neat" response from me in reading the descriptions (especially the Hunter ability to capture, name, tame and level his own pets).

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
kaid
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Reply #68 on: August 09, 2004, 08:54:40 AM

Well one reason you hear more "neat" abilities about WoW characters is it is in a no NDA beta at the moment. Eq2 still really hasn't listed much of any information on what powers/skills the various archtype/classes/subclasses have.

WoW better damn well have more intesting sounding abilities than a game that has not even really announced what abilities their classes have in any specific way.


Kaid
Merusk
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Reply #69 on: August 09, 2004, 11:34:12 AM

Quote from: Alkiera
Quote
That and, as Haemish pointed out, a lot of the talk about EQ2 tends to focus on what EQ1 is like.


I've only seen a few movies about EQ2, and read a little bit of what the devs have said about it.  In every case, they seem adamant about emphasizing how EQ2 is different from EQLive in gameplay.  I don't know if they are succeeding with this PR campaign, but they definately seem to be taking a "This is EverQuest Two, not EverQuest Too" tack with all the interview and releases.

Now, whether that has any effect on potential player expectations for the game, I don't know.  Perhaps once some things come out of beta we'll know more from people who've played both games.  Hopefully there won't be too much reaction to people in beta from the Legends server. I suspect they won't like the game, I mean, they're already paying $40/month for a game that is supposed to be really different.


Well, what I meant was the conversations from the potential players.  The devs and Moorguard have done a reasonable job of trying to express that EQ2 is in fact a *fundamentally different game.*

The problem is they tacked the "Everquest" name on it.  I understand the desire to use their IP and branding and draw in old players of EQ, but they are having to fight a 2-ton gorilla of what players expect when they hear the name "Everquest." EQ is a game about lewtz, camping, grinding, content cockblocking, and being 'Druid #4of 9' on high-level raids of 40-72 players.

 They're promoting EQ2 as a more relaxed game where items and loot still matter, but you concern yourself with a smaller base of friends.  Content is (supposedly) able to be digested by 6-person groups and the occasional (or maybe frequent who knows how often this will be laced through the game) 24-person-MAX raid.  The small raid size curse the 'nameless number' problem, while instancing solves or severely mitigates the cockblocking problems.

  All this is IF, (BIG BIG IF) the devs can provide what they're hyping. We've seen how well that's worked out in the past.  What I suspect is going to happen is since they're allowing Legends and then Long-term EQ subscribers into the Beta first is the game will take a shift towards being more EQLive 1.5 than EQ2, as has been predicted many times by others among us pundits in the past.

Geldon- as far as being 'forced' into your final class. (If you're evil you're an SK, good is a Pally) they have stated there will be quests to "prove" yourself to the other city.  So you can have a Dark Elf Paladin or a Dwarven Shadowknight, so long as you complete the "difficult" quest to change allegiances.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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