Quick Info on Dell LCD

[NiX]

Need some quick info on a dell LCD monitor. I can't find a damn thing on the Dell E228WFP. Dell Canada will have it for $299 on boxing day and I want to know if it's worth getting it for use with my 360 and EQ2. Any quick info would be great. I've tried googling for reviews and all I came up with was this:

Specs on the E228WFP include:

    * 22 inch widescreen display
    * 1680 x 1050 resolution at 60Hz
    * 0.272 mm pixel pitch
    * 5 ms response time
    * 300 cd/m2 brightness
    * 800:1 contrast ratio
    * 160 degree viewing angle
    * Analog and DVI-D with HDCP
    * Measures 409.1 mm x 511.14 mm x 149.16 mm

[schild]

299cad? Sounds solid.

[SurfD]

Having never bought from dell, how exactly would I go abouts buying one of these?  Do i hit up their website on the specified day and hope they still have them in stock?  I have been seriously looking into getting a new PV monitor for AGEs, and this just might tip the scales.

[NiX]

Pretty much. On the 26 or 27 just go to Dell.ca and into TV/Accessories and you'll find the monitors section. Problem is this is probably Canada specific. Just like the states didn't get the 12 days of Dell that we got. Which were just awesome by the way.

[SurfD]

Being canada specific is not an issue.  I live in Toronto.

[NiX]

Oh do you now? Where abouts? I live just outside of Toronto in Richmond Hill. I can't stand the core.

[SurfD]

Well, currently living in a basement appartment in West endish Brampton actually, but its a bit easier to say "Toronto" in general, rather then split hairs about which section of the mishmash megacity you live in.

[Strazos]

I take it they will not ship these deals to the US?

[Morfiend]

Im not sure about the 22inch but I know the Dell 30inch uses the same panel as the Apple monitors, and those look really really nice. I plan to try and pick up one of the Dell 30s late January or early February.

[SurfD]

Hmm, just noticed from the Dell Australia website that the monitor is not UltraSharp.  Any ideas how that might impact viewing?

http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/e228wfp?c=au&cs=audhs1&l=en&s=dhs

[Azazel]

Boy do we take it in the arse over here on prices. AU$700 for that monitor.

[NiX]

Hmm, just noticed from the Dell Australia website that the monitor is not UltraSharp.  Any ideas how that might impact viewing?

The UltraSharps have a 1000:1 contrast ratio and input connections. Some even come with USB ports. The panel for the Ultrasharps are 8 bit which results in the 16.7 million colours number shown on the Dell site. No idea for the monitor I'm looking at, they don't list that info.

Surf - Also, check out CanadaComputers.com. They have some decent sales on for Boxing week too.

[NiX]

Turns out the panel is 6 bit. Bleh.

[Stormwaltz]

Inserting myself in this thread rather than waste space with a new one...

I have a $300 Best Buy gift certificate, and the only reasonable use for it is replacement of my five year old 21" CRT. We've moved cross-country twice since I got it, and on the last trip it acquired some unsightly diagonal lines and blurriness.

I'd like to get a flatpanel LCD. But honestly, I have no clue about these things. I'd like to find a dedicated monitor (no TV hookups, built-in speakers, iPod port, or other extraneous garbage) in the 19-22" range that can run games in 1600x1200 (I don't care for widescreen, just a personal bias). What are the stats I should be paying attention to, and what's a good range to look for?

[schild]

Sell the Best Buy gift certificate for $280 and get a Dell? :P

[Stormwaltz]

Jebus, Schild, that post was only up for a minute...

[schild]

Coincidence.

[Yoru]

I've been looking into getting a new LCD myself; at the moment, I'm disposed towards the Dells, because of a combination of features, warranty, price and decent experiences with the things at work.

A number of stats to look at include:

Color depth in bits-per-pixel; generally 8 or 6. 8-bit panels use the full range of 256 shades of brightness for each subpixel element when displaying color. 6-bit panels use a reduced 64 shades of brightness for each subpixel element, but sort-of kind-of boost themselves up to looking similar to full 8-bit color via dithering. Generally, unless you really need a 2ms response time or aren't bothered by washed-out colors, stick to 8-bit panels if you can; be wary that many manufacturers sacrifice color depth for speed - anything under 8ms is usually 6-bit color.

Pixel response time in ms. This comes in two flavors: white-to-black and gray-to-gray. Sometimes, manufacturers don't specify which one they're talking about when they give response times. Since gray-to-gray response times are faster, these are generally the ones listed on the whizbang "ultrafast gaming" LCDs. Keep this at 16ms or less unless you like ghosting - the lower the better, really. Black-to-white response times should similarly not go above 16ms or so, but tend to bottom out around 8 or 10ms. (Gray-to-grays list as far down as 2ms.)

Maximum resolution - duh. Remember, stuff will look like ass unless it's in the native resolution. Choose wisely.

Maximum brightness - Limits on this are pretty personal. I don't much like stuff below 300 candlepower/m^2. Most mid-to-high-end LCDs will be in the 250-300 range. Go to a store, look at different monitors displaying a white text document, and read off the brightnesses to get a good idea for what your tolerance is.

Contrast ratio. Brighter brights, darker darks. Again, a personal thing. I prefer displays with at least 800:1 or 1000:1 contrast ratios; anything less and the darker tones look too muddy for me.

HDCP over DVI support - If you plan on hooking up a Bluray or HD-DVD drive in the future, or plan on running Vista and use your computer for watching high-def video, you'll want this.

Manufacturer warranty / dead pixel policy - I have shitty luck with LCDs, personally. Out of the 10 or so I've used, 3 have had serious dead-pixel problems - the two relevant and recent ones being a Dell 20" widescreen (which I got replaced since it was a work monitor) and a Samsung 19" gaming LCD (which I returned, due to flashing pixel defects). The rest have been mostly Dell LCDs of various shapes and sizes, a Philips Brilliance 20", and my old laptop from the early 2000s (which developed some nasty pink/green stuck pixels). The Philips had no issues, and most of the Dells had no issues aside from the 20" I mentioned. The Samsung really stuck in my craw, given how much I paid for it - I was rather lucky to get a refund.

Now, you're in Canada, last I remember, and I hear some manufacturers have a no-dead-pixel policy up there. Dead pixels and ghosting are the two things that have kept me off LCDs and with my CRT (8 years in the spring!) for so long; ghosting is now solved. I really, really hate dead pixels. If dead pixels annoy you as much as they annoy me, you'll want to investigate which manufacturers or retailers have good policies for your retail area.

Dell's, for the US at least, is one of the better ones (minimum 5 defects, or 2+ adjacent defects). Samsung's US policy is utter shit (miinimum 10 defects), but the Internet claims that the rest of the world gets a 0-defect policy. The Internet also claims that some Philips displays are also covered by zero-defect policies.

Personally, I'll probably go for either a Dell or a Philips LCD when I get around to purchasing one early next year.

[schild]

In a stroke of brilliance after reading Yoru's post, I realized Costco carried Dells. Worst case, order from the website, return in store if there's so much as a single dead pixel... in the corner.

20.1" 16x10

24" 16x10 LCD

Also, price has built in Dell 3 year advance exchange plan. Better to use the Costco one anyway. Oh, and both prices are VERY aggressive.

[Strazos]

Wow, that first one has a decent price on it...

[Yoru]

In a stroke of brilliance after reading Yoru's post, I realized Costco carried Dells. Worst case, order from the website, return in store if there's so much as a single dead pixel... in the corner.

20.1" 16x10

24" 16x10 LCD

Also, price has built in Dell 3 year advance exchange plan. Better to use the Costco one anyway. Oh, and both prices are VERY aggressive.

Note that the man said he didn't want a widescreen. Also, I'd be leery of the E207WFP; they don't mention its color-depth anywhere (on either the Costco or Dell websites) and given both the price and response time, I'd wager it's a 6-bit display. The random Internets seem to believe so, as well.

The 24" one, though, is quite the thing of beauty - I had one at my old job. The only problem is that it's USD $750, and I don't really need that much monitor - a 20" WFP or 21" 4:3 would do me fine.

Edit: spelng.

[schild]

Why the hell would someone NOT want widescreen?

For realz.

Edit: He said personal bias. He can be swayed. AND WILL BE. Get a widescreen, old chap.

[Stormwaltz]

Yoru: Hugely helpful. Thanks much.

Schild: As far as I'm concerned, widescreen is for video. I watch DVDs on my TV - never once on my computer, in all the years I've had a DVD-ROM. The computer is for games, web, and Word/Excel. While a lot of the games I own support widescreen, not all of the older ones do. I've seen enough badly stretched games on other people's monitors to know I find it very aggravating.

For my purposes at least, widescreen is more a liability than a benefit.

[Yoru]

For the web and Word/Excel, widescreen is actually awesome, because you can turn the monitor sideways (i.e. long edge vertical) and get a ginormous amount of vertical reading space.

For gaming, though, you're definitely right about nastily stretched images. Some LCDs will vertically letterbox, I believe, but I don't know how well it works nor how prevalent it is.

[schild]

Dells have it and it works wonderfully. I use it for PS2 games sometimes. (the bit about vertical letterbox and such), there is also a 1:1 pixel mapping mode which is uber nice.

[SurfD]

just curious, but how exactly does it being 6 bit vs 8 bit stack up when viewing the images on screen?

I mean, i am by no means a video buff, but how would this thing (the monitor mentioned in the Origiona Post) stack up against the image coming from my current 4+ year old 17 inch Viewsonic tube?

Is the 8 bit vs 6 bit difference really that noticable for games / general computer use?

[SurfD]

In a stroke of brilliance after reading Yoru's post, I realized Costco carried Dells. Worst case, order from the website, return in store if there's so much as a single dead pixel... in the corner.

20.1" 16x10

24" 16x10 LCD

Also, price has built in Dell 3 year advance exchange plan. Better to use the Costco one anyway. Oh, and both prices are VERY aggressive.

The 24" one, though, is quite the thing of beauty - I had one at my old job. The only problem is that it's USD $750, and I don't really need that much monitor - a 20" WFP or 21" 4:3 would do me fine.

Thats kind of wierd, cause the Dell.ca (which i assume would list prices in canadian currency) lists that same 24 inch monitor as on sale for 699 canadian dollars.  normally 899 cad.  I would be highly tempted to get one of those, if it wasnt WAYY out of my available monitor budget.

[Yoru]

just curious, but how exactly does it being 6 bit vs 8 bit stack up when viewing the images on screen?

I mean, i am by no means a video buff, but how would this thing (the monitor mentioned in the Origiona Post) stack up against the image coming from my current 4+ year old 17 inch Viewsonic tube?

Is the 8 bit vs 6 bit difference really that noticable for games / general computer use?

The Samsung 19" I had was 6-bit; it was quite noticeable for me - colors looked pretty washed-out and videos had fairly nasty banding patches. I suggest going to a store and looking at 'em side by side.

[NiX]

I ended up finding this monitor for 198.99. Which just happens to be the US price on newegg. Pretty damn nice seeeing everything in widescreen. Now to tweak the colour settings.

[Surlyboi]

Widescreens are spectacular for page layout or design work. My first cinema display changed the way I work and I haven't been able to function as well or as efficiently on a non-widescreen since.

Just my two cents, your milage may of course vary.

That said, the old Dell 20.1 inchers were rather nice, they've changed them since I got mine and I'm less impressed by the results.

[NiX]

What's a good way to set the colour on your monitor? It still seems a bit blue and lacking in green. The nVidia wizard didn't help much.

[stray]

Adjust your RGB settings (through the button panels on your monitor...if it has any) to a lower setting. The numbers will be 4 digits, with a "k" at the end of them. Example: 5000k, 6000k, 8000k, etc..

Lower settings will bring out more warmth and redness (as opposed to cool blues).

[EDIT] At least use that as a base, then go back into software control panels and tweak your color settings.

[Stormwaltz]

Best Buy offered me a choice between jack and shit. The closest they had to the spec I wanted was a 24" widescreen for $900. Too big, too wide, too much.

So I'm going with Schild's suggestion, and seeing if anyone wants to buy the card off me.

This what I'm looking at now, from the store I'd buy it from (price in $CDN).  BioWare has a corporate arrangement with them, which might save me $5. Maybe.

Anyone see any obvious red flags?

[Trippy]

Best Buy offered me a choice between jack and shit. The closest they had to the spec I wanted was a 24" widescreen for $900. Too big, too wide, too much.

So I'm going with Schild's suggestion, and seeing if anyone wants to buy the card off me.

This what I'm looking at now, from the store I'd buy it from (price in $CDN).  BioWare has a corporate arrangement with them, which might save me $5. Maybe.

Anyone see any obvious red flags?

That one looks pretty nice actually. It has an 8-bit panel and decent response times.