Snowball Griefing - The End of an Era

[Slayerik]

Devs lay the smack down on snowball griefing... /wrists

[Zetor]

On the other hand, it prevents creative disposal of AFKers, as seen here.


-- Z.

[Slayerik]

On the other hand, it prevents creative disposal of AFKers, as seen here.


-- Z.

Ahh I was just going to edit my post with that sentiment! You're quick!

[sinij]

What is that 'forced grouping' I read about? You can't force someone to cooperate or be a good PvPer, all forced grouping will do is make harder to make good groups.

[Ironwood]

Forced grouping is when no-one tells you that you're at a swingers party until it's too late.

[Merusk]

What is that 'forced grouping' I read about? You can't force someone to cooperate or be a good PvPer, all forced grouping will do is make harder to make good groups.

Everyone who joins a BG is plunked into the same BG 'raid group' (separate from an actual group, it uses /bg instead of /ra as a communication channel.)   If you're part of a premade group, then PUGs are added-in to fill it out and then dumped when the BG is over.

It's to make it easier for PUGs, since they don't then have to spend the first 3-4 mins of a BG shouting "can I getan invite plz" "r there 2 groups, we should combines dem" etc.

[Righ]

It's about Alterac Valley, the 40 person battleground. In Alterac Valley you cannot join as a group at all. The historic reason for this stems from the original incarnation of AV, which used to have a larger map, elite NPCs and allowed people to join as a group. Raiding guilds would join the battleground, and, since they were on Ventrilo, would steamroller any pickup guilds in under 15 minutes. Since they were all about the honor, they got used to fast games, and when they ran into an enemy guild team, the Alliance and Horde would take turns at /afk'ing out. The reason - well matched teams in the old incarnation of AV would end up in marathon games, often lasting over 12 hours, and in some cases lasting as long as two days.

So rather than fix their shitty battleground, Blizzard cut some sections out of the map, nerfed some NPCs, accused players of 'fixing matches' and prevented teams from joining. As a result, AV consists of 40 people, most of whom don't want to play with each other, resent the fact that they have to, and would rather mouth off than fight the enemy. Or snowball their own team-mates off a bridge or mountain or into a group of enemy NPCs. Again, Blizzard applied a hotfix that didn't address their rotten battleground design.

[sinij]

Interesting. Funny how it is hard to make a PvPer out of a carebear, more often than not you end up with an asshat instead.

For PvPers guilds - vent/teamspeak, called targets, defense/offense teams and rudimentary tactics (don't chase, stick together, heal friendlies over dealing damage) are given. For average WoW player healing your group mate or not attacking CCed enemies is too complicated. I don't think this gap will ever can be narrowed in a environment that doesn't penalize stupidity. I remember in UO even random blues would cross-heal, focus fire and stick together if you go PKing into high-level areas like Lich Lords or Balrons.

[jpark]

I really enjoy the snowballs - another nifty little charming aspect to this game.

I got hit by my own team a few times - but I thought it was quite funny.

A priest on the opposing faction killed me with a snowball by knocking me into the canyon below in AV.  It was quite hilarious.  Of course, throwing a snowball at a gnome is the best.

All in all - snowballs have been a hell of a lot of fun.  I tip my hat once again to blizzard - well done.

[Jayce]

Interesting. Funny how it is hard to make a PvPer out of a carebear, more often than not you end up with an asshat instead.

It's also interesting that many of the PvPers I met prior to WoW were also the worst kind of asshats.  Does that mean they were carebears too?  So, carebears PvPed in hardcore games?  How can you tell the difference, then?

[Slayerik]

Interesting. Funny how it is hard to make a PvPer out of a carebear, more often than not you end up with an asshat instead.

It's also interesting that many of the PvPers I met prior to WoW were also the worst kind of asshats.  Does that mean they were carebears too?  So, carebears PvPed in hardcore games?  How can you tell the difference, then?

Ive met plenty of carebear asshats too :)

WoW bridges the gap of the asshats. Hail to the king, baby.

[Nebu]

For the statement: If some gamers are jerks and some jerks like pvp.   

Is the following true or false: All gamers that like pvp are jerks. 

It's like an SAT question!

[Zephyr]

Snowballs were the foolproof method of killing warlocks and other casters who forget to use levitate.  I would sit stealthed on my druid at the highest part of the bridge into DB waiting for a horde caster to run by.  As soon as one was even with me on the bridge, I would pop them with a snowball and switch back to cat form to follow them down to finish them off.

[pants]

They were also great for hunters to get melee characters out of your face, and for interrupting spellcasters.

[SurfD]

You can still use them offensively on the enemy faction.  You just cant use them on friends anymore (The hardpacked ones that is).

[Signe]

Bummer.  I would have considered resubbing before the expansion just so I could knock people around with my balls.

[Merusk]

It's about Alterac Valley, the 40 person battleground. In Alterac Valley you cannot join as a group at all. The historic reason for this stems from the original incarnation of AV, which used to have a larger map, elite NPCs and allowed people to join as a group. Raiding guilds would join the battleground, and, since they were on Ventrilo, would steamroller any pickup guilds in under 15 minutes. Since they were all about the honor, they got used to fast games, and when they ran into an enemy guild team, the Alliance and Horde would take turns at /afk'ing out. The reason - well matched teams in the old incarnation of AV would end up in marathon games, often lasting over 12 hours, and in some cases lasting as long as two days.

So rather than fix their shitty battleground, Blizzard cut some sections out of the map, nerfed some NPCs, accused players of 'fixing matches' and prevented teams from joining. As a result, AV consists of 40 people, most of whom don't want to play with each other, resent the fact that they have to, and would rather mouth off than fight the enemy. Or snowball their own team-mates off a bridge or mountain or into a group of enemy NPCs. Again, Blizzard applied a hotfix that didn't address their rotten battleground design.

I never got to run AV before they added-in a few of the other BGs (felt my time was better-spent leveling my other 2 60s) so I wans't aware they cut-out parts of the map, interesting.

However, I really replied to get on that whole 'can't join as a team' thing.  It's not so much the case anymore.  Came across a full 40-person Spinebreaker Horde team yesterday.  Apparently, if they time hitting "join battleground" (through vent.) they will all queue into the same AV.  Not that it helped them much, as when I finally /afk'd out to do a quick Mandokir/ Jin'do run we were at 45mins in a battleground that usually takes 15-20 tops when the Alliance Zerg isn't Horde-turtled.

[Chenghiz]

There's actually a UI mod that helps you do that sort of thing.

[Zetor]

It's much easier to achieve horde-side too... even if you miss, you can just solo queue into the appropriate AV, since queues are almost instant. As alliance, if you're off by even half of a second, you'll very likely end up in another AV and have to wait 40 minutes if you want another shot. :P

(that's me being grumpy with my 700 ping.. I find it much harder to synch an AV with the 2-3 guildies I'm pvping with at a given time. /sigh)


-- Z.

[Rasix]

Somewhat needed change.  During an AV that we were winning, three hordies decided it would be fun to stand on the side of the bridge and snowball their teammates.  Pretty much stalled out the charge to get SP. They were getting a lot of people.

It's too bad AV is such a bad map, it's the style of PVP I prefer in contrast to AB and WSG. 

There's a new trend of 10 man premades sitting back and completely stonewalling any offensive push.  Works both ways and renders the opposite team completely unable to capture any objectives.  Usually it's guys in full epic PVP gear or tier 2/3 and working on vent.  They use the fact that it's hard for a PUG to capture SH or IB versus a team that's picking them off at various points in the middle of the map.  You tend to never get enough to a flag that can't be destroyed by their superior gear and coordination.

Then everyone just turtles.  Horde eventually loses due to the shitty map design but if a horde team does the coordinated team-turtle it just makes the AV go on forever. It's bad, about 50% of the games I've played lately have fallen prey to this.

[Righ]

There's actually a UI mod that helps you do that sort of thing.

Yes, its called StinkyQueue and its available for 2.0. As with manual syncs over Vent/TS, how successful it is will depend upon (1) how full the AV you join is (2) how many you attempt to join up (3) their pings. We StinkyQueue'd six of us for AV last night and only three got in because the BG was fairly full and filled in seconds. The other three got in as people /afk'd out. Longish (50 min) battle - we won due in no small part to the six of us working together. Rabble of 34 with 6 on Vent together > rabble of 40.

AV is crap mostly because mixing PvE and PvP like that is crap. You win honor with PvE. There is no honor penalty if the opposition kills your NPCs and bases. The bonus for winning is miniscule compared to the 'objective' honor. The honor for killing other people is smaller yet and a diminishing return. People like me who spent a year away from the game and de-ranked to scout are worth no honor, because it is still based off ranks that will now never change. Kill a couple of hundred points worth of NPCs then get out, because waiting around fo a win or loss is unimportant to your honor score.

[Slayerik]

If you want out, have a friend queue ya for Arena....

[sinij]

People like me who spent a year away from the game and de-ranked to scout are worth no honor, because it is still based off ranks that will now never change.

How so?

[Righ]

Blizzard decided to create an honor system where people high up the honor ladder were worth more honor when killed. At the last patch, they decided to remove the rank ladder and make honor simple cumulative points used like currency rather than in a league table. However, they kept calculating honor from kills based on the last rank that people had, and they reduced the amount of honor a kill was worth significantly. The first time a person with a low rank is killed, they are now worth one point. After a couple of kills, they're worth nothing. However, with the compounded 30% honor nerfs designed to slow down the accumulation of rewards, a low rank person is worth no honor, and they'll never gain rank.

[tazelbain]

That's awesome.  You'd think they'd have reset that.

[Rasix]

Yah, the way of calculating honor per person right now is REALLY stupid.  It should really just be a flat number of points, perhaps adjusted for level. You wouldn't think they'd be this short sighted in redesigning honor accumulation.  Just seems lazy.

[Slayerik]

Its called: PVP As An Afterthought

or PVPAAATM  as I like to call it!

[lamaros]

People like me who spent a year away from the game and de-ranked to scout are worth no honor, because it is still based off ranks that will now never change.

How so?

I dont think that's correct.

At all.

[Xanthippe]

People will continue to rank up as they accumulate points.  They won't drop ranks anymore.

[Righ]

You reckon? It's not what the man said, nor do I see it happening.

[Xanthippe]

You're right -- I was under the impression ranks were still part of it, but apparently they are now obsolete.

But people are worth points according to obsolete ranks?  That doesn't make sense.

[lamaros]

You're right -- I was under the impression ranks were still part of it, but apparently they are now obsolete.

But people are worth points according to obsolete ranks?  That doesn't make sense.

People are worth a set amount of honour.

Divided among the number of people nearby when I kill is made.

Subject to diminishing returns.

[Strazos]

I thought the amount of honor you get from a kill is tied to the amount of accumulated (or total over life) honor held by the victim.

[Xanthippe]

You're right -- I was under the impression ranks were still part of it, but apparently they are now obsolete.

But people are worth points according to obsolete ranks?  That doesn't make sense.

People are worth a set amount of honour.

Divided among the number of people nearby when I kill is made.

Subject to diminishing returns.

But are they worth a set amount based upon their rank, as previously, or upon some constant that doesn't vary from person to person, only varies depending upon how many times you've killed them?

[Jayce]

So, do the old ranked people still get NPC discounts?

And a newly made character will never display a rank?

That's pretty bogus.

Sorry if this was covered elsewhere; I looked for it on the WoW site but it's not really obvious (to me) where the changes were located.