f13.net forums - For those that don't visit the official forums: a must read

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=118808

For those that don't want to read the whole thing, I will summarize.

With EoF, SOE rebalanced the mitigation (damage absorption) curve for armor because under the previous linear system, a raid with a top of the line geared MT with 8000+ buffed mitigation could waltz through the most difficult content. So, SOE implemented a diminishing return curve for mitigation values > 6500, achievable with a mix of legendary and mastercrafted armor. This means that an MT in fully fabled gear has at most a 5% mitigation improvement over a legendary equipped tank. It also made most mitigation buffs worthless since they grant +mit, not +%mit.

Naturally, the top tanks were not happy and did some testing. This testing demonstrated that wearing cloth armor+mitigation buffs gets one to the 6500 mitigation level BUT also boosts avoidance to 70%, from under 50%. Voila! Plate tanks wearing cloth armor tank better than plate tanks in plate armor!

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So, in a not so routine of Nizara (we attempted the zone without -any- crowd control) I ended up with fully broken gear. Due to some funny comments from groupmates about being naked, and noticing that my mit was in the mid 20%s (naked!) I decided to show them who was who, and told them I'd tank naked and see how they liked it.

I was just trying to keep the joke going. We had a Paladin who could tank when I went down, so it was a just for fun type of deal. The problem is that once I threw up my two mit buffs (I'm a zerker) I was able to get OVER 50% mitigation. I was able to hold hate, take hits, and tank almost just as well as I was when I was naked. We got through the fight cleanly, hell I even CAed with my barehand for over 1300, and amputated a Nayad's arm with my fist! Heck, I could even parry. We were dumbfounded by the results.

Next fight I pulled out a backup sword and buckler (so I could have more DPS and hate control,) and was otherwise naked completely still, and yet same result, we got through it cleanly, in fact it was barely making a significant difference in the damage I was taking since so many abilities in Nizara ignore mit/resist anyway (flame claw in particular) the only difference was my HP pool being lower. So we go through half the zone with a naked berserker tanking with no unusual problems, before we finally come to the last boss pulls and I pull out my backup gear. We didn't manage to clear with the lack of CC, but the fact that we did so well and managed to clear trash just as well with the MT naked as we did with him fully armored is disgusting. I just had to wait a short time between fights for mit buffs, but other than that it was smooth sailing, we were cracking ourselves up, and making jokes about the protective prowess of my Barbarian Woad.

So we decided that when we got back to Qeynos, that I would go and buy a level 1 set of platemail, and pretend it was a new UBER set of armor (who is likely to recognize the graphic? almost no one), and make a video showing me tanking Nizara or some other zone with it, and post it on the forums, with links to the "new suit" at the end, to prove a point about how much diminishing returns is unjustly harmful to plate tanking, half as a joke, and half as a legitimate protest.

But here's the kicker. I pay a visit to the Armorsmith in Graystone Yard, and pick up level 1 Tin Platemail (A full set for only about 9 silver! What a steal!) My mit drops to NEGATIVE ~21%. I turn on Defensive Stance, and my mit drops to NEGATIVE 25%. After blinking a few times I unequip the platemail, and my mit shoots up into the positive teens (naked.) I'd managed to dispatch myself by putting on a full suit of armor. What the HECK? So much for grey items not having diminishing mitigation, apparently it can even take away armor from your other pieces!

So I visit the tailor in the zone, buy a suit of level 1 cloth. My mit drops to -4%. My avoidance shoots up to around 7000. I put on a shield and I've got over 8500 avoidance rating. Blow some short term buffs, and I'm back into the 50+% mit.

So I take my cloth pajamas, and go meet with the rest of my group. Get m1 healer mit buffs, some warden cure mit buffs, paladin transfer, and use my short term mit buffs and get to 55% mitigation in level 1 cloth armor, while having almost 9500 avoidance.

In my best armor I can barely reach 66-67% mitigation with my short terms blown and all of those buffs, and barely reach mid 6000s in avoidance in a typical group.

The difference between a warrior in level 1 pajamas, and in level 70 fabled and legendary platemail ultimately boils down to maybe a ten percent mit difference on a pull up to 30 seconds or less long. However, my avoidance is tremendously larger in cloth, it may even be able to make up for the lack of mit.

So the questions that come from this are: Can a warrior using mit buffs in cloth tank as well or better than a warrior using platemail? Could avoidance overcome the lost mit? This will be tested tomorrow with level 70 storebought cloth armor. Stay tuned!

Second question then is, should Warrior mit buffs be tweaked? Where before they gave equal mitigation to everyone, now they give almost nothing to the tanks themselves, yet can turn Warlocks into 50+% mitigation monsters. Should they give a flat rate of return? Before EoF the group buff was worth almost 10% group mit, the self only buff worth almost 15% mitigation. Now they act as 2% and about 3% to the tank respectively. Are they overpowered on cloth wearers and leather wearers? Underpowered on plate users?

And final question is, is there that tremendous a penalty for using grey armor? How can putting armor on result in losing almost 40% mitigation from being naked to being clothed?