PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th

[Zetor]

I'm torn on this change... on one hand, I've gotten my mageblade during a weekend of semi-catassing. On the other hand, this probably means my warrior alt is never going to get that 2h GM mace.

[whine]
Thing is, honor is not "easy" for everyone. On alliance side in battlegroup 2, wait times for AV are 30-35 minutes, wait times for AB are 10-20; WSG is not worth mentioning (worst honor of the 3, unless you are in a premade). In AB I face premades about half of the time, and lose most of the other battles too, leading to a ~15% win record, and even those wins are grueling 30-minute affairs. AV used to be extremely good, but nowadays horde have learned how to win and are blitzing to SP and the aid station at the start of the game while stalling the knuckleheaded alliance at galv, and we typically lose without even having IB capped. Not much one person can do to change the outcome, either.

Things also change depending on class.. my warlock is probably the second best class to rake in the honor with (first one would be hunter, maybe mage) due to long range high damage instant cast DOTs, meaning I am usually reasonably safe from dying, and do a lot of damage. My warrior OTOH is puny - even in my tank gear (5.3k hp), I am mercilessly mowed down if I try to engage in any sort of fight over a node (getting healed? in a PUG? hah!), and even the damage I did before dying won't matter, since you get no honor while you're staring at the spirit healer, watching those 2 hunters finish off the mage and priest you softened up. I've also heard healers complain that trying to heal in a PUG environment gets them killed fast, resulting in 0 honor gained also. The fact that damage is insanely scaled up means that unless you're a ranged dps class, you're probably screwed. I'm seriously considering respeccing prot on my warrior and staying in defensive stance 75%, just so I can sometimes stay alive long enough to get honor.

I guess the answer is "it's fine, l2premade", but most of my guild is inactive until BC, and I've heard Bad Things (as expected) about the random "premade" groups recruiting in /1. Being an European on a US server doesn't help either.

Also, why is everyone so concerned about "ezmode epix" when http://www.thottbot.com/?i=38113 (which would take 2+ weeks to get under my circumstances) is not really that much better than http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=1759 (an extremely easy to craft GREEN axe)?
[/whine]


-- Z.

[Shavnir]

We're speaking in days, not hours. It's not like this crap was given out with your tokens at the end of the game.

Edit: I wonder how hard people would bitch if they said we're removing a loot spot off <insert raid mob here>.  Hey, 33% less loot, that's not unreasonable now is it?  30% isn't trivial, damnit.

Actually something like that did happen.  Because cross-faction loot is dropping on T2 and below bosses there's a 1/9 chance that a set piece will be nothing more than nexus fodder.

[SurfD]

We're speaking in days, not hours. It's not like this crap was given out with your tokens at the end of the game.

Edit: I wonder how hard people would bitch if they said we're removing a loot spot off <insert raid mob here>.  Hey, 33% less loot, that's not unreasonable now is it?  30% isn't trivial, damnit.

Actually something like that did happen.  Because cross-faction loot is dropping on T2 and below bosses there's a 1/9 chance that a set piece will be nothing more than nexus fodder.

Indeed,  first week after the patch came out, it was amusing to see all the posts pop up on the Tich forums about the "awesome" loot drops in BWL / MC.  Its no longer "yay, more Felheart / Cenarian", which at least someone could potentially use, its now, "Whee, Vael just dropped double Paladin Belts".  Can you imagine how pissed an Alliance raid would be if they just killed Neff, only to get double Ten Storms drops?

As to the complaints about battleground queues, I really wish there was something I could say, but the only thing that comes to mind is "sucks to be alliance".  I have no iidea what it is like on Alliance side, but on Battlegroup 9, horde has pretty much instantanious queues for WSG and AB all the time, and unless it is REALLY dead, AV is almost always sub 10 mintues to get a game.

It almost makes me feel sorry for the alliance, almost.

[lamaros]

We're speaking in days, not hours. It's not like this crap was given out with your tokens at the end of the game.

Edit: I wonder how hard people would bitch if they said we're removing a loot spot off <insert raid mob here>.  Hey, 33% less loot, that's not unreasonable now is it?  30% isn't trivial, damnit.

Actually something like that did happen.  Because cross-faction loot is dropping on T2 and below bosses there's a 1/9 chance that a set piece will be nothing more than nexus fodder.

Indeed,  first week after the patch came out, it was amusing to see all the posts pop up on the Tich forums about the "awesome" loot drops in BWL / MC.  Its no longer "yay, more Felheart / Cenarian", which at least someone could potentially use, its now, "Whee, Vael just dropped double Paladin Belts".  Can you imagine how pissed an Alliance raid would be if they just killed Neff, only to get double Ten Storms drops?

As to the complaints about battleground queues, I really wish there was something I could say, but the only thing that comes to mind is "sucks to be alliance".  I have no iidea what it is like on Alliance side, but on Battlegroup 9, horde has pretty much instantanious queues for WSG and AB all the time, and unless it is REALLY dead, AV is almost always sub 10 mintues to get a game.

It almost makes me feel sorry for the alliance, almost.

Lies. BG 9 is sub 1min for AVs too.

[SurfD]

Well, i was sort of referring to "normal" PvP operating times.  With the current PvP blitz to get easy HWL gear, of course things are going to be faster then normal.

I mean, the other day, when running AB with the guild, there was pretty much never less then 150 AB games going at one time during prime time hours, and i think i hit a 200+ AB instance game that night.

But yeah, right now, we have Insta queues for every BG horde side.

[Zetor]

Die in a honor fire. <3

Seriously though, it's to be expected. We have WAY too many pve realms with horrible population imbalances in battlegroup 2.. I'm talking 1 horde to 3 alliance here.
I'm just bitter because my server -Crushridge, PVP- is almost 1:1, but still I have to endure 30-min waits because the OTHER realms have crappy balance. /sigh


-- Z.

[Simond]

I wonder if many guilds will used TBC as a reason to reroll Horde?
It'll be as good as reason as any.

[Merusk]

I wonder if many guilds will used TBC as a reason to reroll Horde?
It'll be as good as reason as any.

No.

Why?  Because waiting on an entire guild to go from 1-70 is vastly different from waiting on them to go from 60-70.  It's a good thing the largest instance is only a 10-man, because I know the playtimes of most of my guildies.  Only about 20 of us (out of  ~70 'raiders') will play regularly enough to get to 70 at the same time.  The rest will be a month+ behind us.

[Luxor]

AV used to be extremely good, but nowadays horde have learned how to win and are blitzing to SP and the aid station at the start of the game while stalling the knuckleheaded alliance at galv, and we typically lose without even having IB capped. Not much one person can do to change the outcome, either.

-- Z.

It has went that way on the Euro servers too, people rushing to each others aid stations and taking them out. I had an 8 min AV last week which was insane. We've got a new tactic though, idont bother racing the other team and just kill all the commanders/lieutenants you can find. From horde side it goes :- Stonehearth bunker ( spawns commander ) + 2 lieutenenats patrolling outside, Balinda + 2 lieuts, Ice bunker commander + lieut patrolling. You get at least 20 honour for each one. Ok you lose the game and only get 1 token instead of 3 but you get double the amount of honour the winning side does, and who doesnt have AV tokens out the wazoo anyway?

[Shavnir]

With the honor nerf its 14 each.  Also you get 14 honor per tower you can set on fire.

[Dren]

If the PvP is a fun activity in and of itself, who cares if you get 30% fewer points?  It's the pvp that's supposed to be fun... not the getting of teh shiny.   

The people pissed off by this are apparently getting their fun more from accumulation of "teh shiny" than the gameplay itself.

I'm not all that pissed.  I'm not in "that" game to begin with, but have visions of trying it someday.  I cannot get "teh shiny" now, so it is obvious that I'm not playing the game for it.

Yes 33% seems trivial if we are talking about 3 more consecutive days, but that isn't what you talking about for a casual player like myself.  I do not play every day.  I do not log as many hours in a day.  That 3 days of *effort* for me is not 3 days.  It can be 2 weeks in comparison.

Seriously, I don't care.  It is like this with any aspect of the game.  Introduce something that may suit the casual crowd only to have the hardcore jump on it and devour it before we even have a chance.  Typical reaction is to nerf.  Same as it ever was.  I'll continue to get what I can as I can and either enjoy it or quit.

However, I don't want anyone to be fooled into thinking that these changes are directed towards anyone that is a casual player.  Yes, we still have a chance, which is a step in the right direction.  They've just made it that much harder for us to build up enough rep and badges to get anything decent.  They've made the stick for the carrot longer so to speak.

[Rasix]

So, i decided to test out this honor nerf, before the patch, Lts in AV were worth 20 points, now they should be 14.

So i go into an AV, hang out until first Lt is killed and i get +14 honor points.

Sounds good, right?

WRONG.

today i have, you guessed it, 10 Honor points.

Looks like the new calculation is -30% for bonus honor, then another - 30% at the end of the day.(

Total nerf =-51% honor.

So, it used to take X number of hours for items, now it takes 2.04 times X amount of hours..


L2Math Blizzard!

Due to a question in another thread about us responding to Honor threads, I posted the following-

I don't have anything to add to the Honor Reduction posts at this point in time. I could say "We're looking into that" but even if I say that, people will expect me to come back with information I can share and if I can't share more information they will be disappointed. We're between a rock and a hard place but we ARE doing what we can on our end.

I hope that helps a little though I know there will be some that are ok with that message and others that want to know more. I don't have more for you right now and I can't tell you when I would have more for you.

I thought my honor gains were rather low (4 AVs last night, around 850 honor).  So yah, it's a 51% decrease currently in honor right now (30% while you earn, another 30% taken when they calculate).  Back to leveling the druid.

Man, they just can't get anything right recently.  I hope this doesn't stick around for the holiday.

[Cadaverine]

I thought the usual path was to make things easier after all the catasses had their gear, not harder.

'Splains why my honor gains have been so damn low, though.

[Slayerik]

What makes things worse is I had two matches in a row where some guys on my side (horde) kept taking Snowfall and causing the alliance to turtle. Talk about horrible honor gains!

Was ok cause after that we got to 4-5 capping some noobs in AB, makes ya feel a lot better ;)

[Azazel]

I thought the usual path was to make things easier after all the catasses had their gear, not harder.

This actually follows the SoE-EQ1 path perfectly. Once the ubercatasses have their gear, it's time to crank up the encounter's difficulty, because the guys with the best gear in the game were blasting through the content too quickly, so we need to make it harder for everyone else..

[Rasix]

What makes things worse is I had two matches in a row where some guys on my side (horde) kept taking Snowfall and causing the alliance to turtle. Talk about horrible honor gains!

We had one match yesterday where horde ended up putting 25 men on defense. 5 or so folks were hiding in the cave or fishing (and talking shit the entire time).  It was painful.  I should have AFK'd out when I saw that fucking blob of morons at Galv.  It was fun to cheer for the alliance every time they capped something and laugh at the idiots when FW was capped while they were furiously defending Galv, IB and Tower point.  Sometimes the stupidity of your own side makes you wish you were playing Shadowbane or UO.  I had fun going around capping the alliance towers/killing LTs with a hunter and mage that were amused by all of this as much as I was.

I wish they'd put out another 40 man BG but actually think a bit before designing the map.  I'm really surprised that horde wins any at all.

[Slayerik]

What makes things worse is I had two matches in a row where some guys on my side (horde) kept taking Snowfall and causing the alliance to turtle. Talk about horrible honor gains!

We had one match yesterday where horde ended up putting 25 men on defense. 5 or so folks were hiding in the cave or fishing (and talking shit the entire time).  It was painful.  I should have AFK'd out when I saw that fucking blob of morons at Galv.  It was fun to cheer for the alliance every time they capped something and laugh at the idiots when FW was capped while they were furiously defending Galv, IB and Tower point.  Sometimes the stupidity of your own side makes you wish you were playing Shadowbane or UO.  I had fun going around capping the alliance towers/killing LTs with a hunter and mage that were amused by all of this as much as I was.

I wish they'd put out another 40 man BG but actually think a bit before designing the map.  I'm really surprised that horde wins any at all.

Yeah seriously, the alliance can just bypass the horde's NPCs. Usual Alliance love IMO...I hear the shaman are getting mana back from totems if you drop new ones while the old ones were still out there. Figures, now that alliance has em they better hook em up! ;)

[Rasix]

We have replied already that we're investigating claims of the honor reduction being applied more than once to a set of honor. The 30% reduction does apply to all honor gained, both from kills and bonus honor, which may account for the 'double reduction' some are seeing. Looking at the changes made it does not appear that the 30% reduction is being applied more than once for the honor gained, but we have a team working to test the claim and we'll hopefully have a solid answer for you in the next couple business days.

 

[lamaros]

So, i decided to test out this honor nerf, before the patch, Lts in AV were worth 20 points, now they should be 14.

So i go into an AV, hang out until first Lt is killed and i get +14 honor points.

Sounds good, right?

WRONG.

today i have, you guessed it, 10 Honor points.

Looks like the new calculation is -30% for bonus honor, then another - 30% at the end of the day.(

Total nerf =-51% honor.

So, it used to take X number of hours for items, now it takes 2.04 times X amount of hours..


L2Math Blizzard!

Due to a question in another thread about us responding to Honor threads, I posted the following-

I don't have anything to add to the Honor Reduction posts at this point in time. I could say "We're looking into that" but even if I say that, people will expect me to come back with information I can share and if I can't share more information they will be disappointed. We're between a rock and a hard place but we ARE doing what we can on our end.

I hope that helps a little though I know there will be some that are ok with that message and others that want to know more. I don't have more for you right now and I can't tell you when I would have more for you.

I thought my honor gains were rather low (4 AVs last night, around 850 honor).  So yah, it's a 51% decrease currently in honor right now (30% while you earn, another 30% taken when they calculate).  Back to leveling the druid.

Man, they just can't get anything right recently.  I hope this doesn't stick around for the holiday.

That explains a lot. I thought I deserved more than 4k honour yesterday. I hope the give me this when they fix it.

In other news BGs are crapping themselves today.

Dunno if it's just my server or not, but I'm getting kicked randomly from BGs and getter deserter flag, have no BG into, can see info but I am not showing up on it, cannot quit out of BGs and have to /afk out, am being put in three BGs at the same time (or accourding to my info I am) etc..

Good old blizzard.