Medieval 2 Discussion

[stray]

Dude the long campaign is only 45 territories, (plus sometimes a Holy Land province) so 50 would actually be longer.  Also, what diffiulty are you playing on?  Unless it's Very Hard/ Very Hard, then you really are playing on easy mode.

Ah, thought the long campaign was 75 territories.

I have no idea why. Forget what I said. 45 isn't bad at all.


Playing Medium/Hard.

Saying anything less than Very Hard is Easy is silly though.

[dusematic]

True, but seemed like you were knocking the game for being too easy when you're playing on a fairly humble difficulty setting. 

[stray]

Just seemed liked there were was much more cockblocking involved playing France or Byzantium.

Though to be fair, I've been far less wasteful with troop deployment this time around.

[dusematic]

Well naturally playing an island nation gives you some breathing room.  Word on the street is there is a bug where the AI won't attack islands.  Don't know if that applies to England, but I've never been attacked in Corsica or Sardinia.

[WayAbvPar]

After playing a few days, I have a few complaints (still fun overall though)-

It is tough to find/remember to move agents spread around the map. I wish the UI would focus on each unit that hasn't had any orders each turn ala Civ.
Not enough 'happens' each turn.
Not enough info about what each building does, or what it leads to; I am sure it is somewhere in the interface, but it needs to be available in the city overview.
Having a general die from natural causes enroute to a crusade is really punishing- I lost 10-15 good units to desertion within 3 turns.
I really suck at directing battles  :-D

[Strazos]

They're trying to be a bit more realistic. Think of what would have happened if Richard had died en route during his Crusade.

[Big Gulp]

After playing a few days, I have a few complaints (still fun overall though)-

It is tough to find/remember to move agents spread around the map. I wish the UI would focus on each unit that hasn't had any orders each turn ala Civ.

Use the "lists" scroll under your faction information.  That's how I do the rounds on all my settlements and agents.  Saves a shitload of time from playing Where's Waldo.

[Johny Cee]

Reading this thread made me start playing Rome: Total War again,  and actually playing out the battles.  Bastards.

[NiX]

I'm so poor! What's the trick to getting more money?

[Strazos]

Your mouth.

[dusematic]

I'm so poor! What's the trick to getting more money?

Build roads.  Don't build so many farming improvements unless you want population problems.  Build ports, merchant facilites, establish trade rights with all factions.  Clear rebels from your territory.

[Big Gulp]

Reading this thread made me start playing Rome: Total War again,  and actually playing out the battles.  Bastards.

Why would you buy these games and skip the battles?  I can't fathom that.

I may be an RTS hater, but if I want to play a decent turn based game there are much better options out there (EU2, Civ4, etc) than the campaign mode of the Total War games.  That'd be like buying a Ferrari but saying, "well, I'll keep to the side streets and only drive 35 mph tops".

[Trippy]

Reading this thread made me start playing Rome: Total War again,  and actually playing out the battles.  Bastards.

Why would you buy these games and skip the battles?  I can't fathom that.

I did that as well with R:TW. One reason why is that I hated the UI. Another reason was that the computer played better than me.

I may be an RTS hater, but if I want to play a decent turn based game there are much better options out there (EU2, Civ4, etc) than the campaign mode of the Total War games.

Unless you are looking to play a fancier, more complex version of Risk (but not as complex as the Paradox games), in which case letting the computer resolve battles for you makes sense. Basically when you let the computer fight, the game turns into a "beer and pretzels"-style wargame which if you like that kind of game is quite fun.

[dusematic]

I let the computer fight battles all the time.  Any time the odds are heavily stacked in my favor, I sim it.

[Big Gulp]

I let the computer fight battles all the time.  Any time the odds are heavily stacked in my favor, I sim it.

Yeah, that I can understand.  But to play the whole game in campaign mode?  Seems like a huge waste to me.

[dusematic]

It is.

[stray]

I think the TBS game is pretty cool, if a bit one dimensional, but the only reason I really play is battles. Though I do skip things stacked in my favor.

I haven't even finished a campaign yet though. I keep playing single battles.

[dusematic]

Short campaigns only take a few hours.  On VH/VH they will take maybe twice as long, especially with a shitty faction.

[eldaec]

I'm so poor! What's the trick to getting more money?

Build roads.  Don't build so many farming improvements unless you want population problems.  Build ports, merchant facilites, establish trade rights with all factions.  Clear rebels from your territory.

Also, regularly review every army and garrison for old units that will never see battle or do anything useful even if they did, and disband them (they are normally eating at least 100 every turn). Then review every settlement you control and sell any recruitment buildings you don't use. Finally, convert castles to cities unless they are one of your two or three military production centres.

[dusematic]

keep militia to defend interior cities bc they are housed for free in cities (the bigger the city the more they hosue freely).

[eldaec]

Some more longer term money tips.

 - Take control of the college of cardinals. Do this by picking one of your largest interior city and build every church you can, and every growth enhancement you can (the population will probably get out of control - so you'll likely need a large garrison). Then keep building priests there and nothing else, you are shooting for theologians HQ + Huge cathedral, on the way you should be able to pump out higher piety preists than every other country, eventually you end up with 6+ cardinals and a pope from your country. This unlocks the real prize, the ability to successfully request crusades everytime the cooldown timer expires. Even with early game units, a crusade is worth around 1500 a turn per army just in saved upkeep, plus the pope gives you cash for taking part, plus you get to hire cheap crusader units, plus all that crusading is going to score you more money from sacking.

 - Play as an Italian faction, or just as good, sack Italian faction cities. They are all crazy rich.

[Engels]

Anyone go the scoop on why the patch is taking so long? The forums aren't much help there.

[eldaec]

Someone on the dev team started a long game, and no work is getting done as a result.

imo.

Seriously, I worry about starting this game up without ten hours to spare.

[dusematic]

Anyone go the scoop on why the patch is taking so long? The forums aren't much help there.

Honestly, I think the playerbase reported a lot of pretty serious flaws with the game, and they have been scrambling to collect and repair them.

[Raging Turtle]

Patch is out. 

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/medieval2totalwar/download.html?sid=6163250&tag=feat_dls;title;0

Anyone have opinions?  Still thinking about picking this one up.

[GenVec]

The patch fixes quite a bit, including the some of the more game-stopping bugs that a few people have mentioned. Passive AI was the worst of these - i.e., your enemies sit underneath your walls and get shot to death despite the fact they've lost all their siege equipment and can't possibly take the city. Someone also mentioned that they'd noticed the AI was retarded about defending their cities, even on VH difficulty; fortunately that's been fixed, and they seem to maintain adequate garrisons now.

By the by, never play this game on VH campaign difficulty. It's basically equivalent to turning diplomacy off. By turn 50 or so, every neighbor will be at war with you all the time, regardless of your historical alliances, strength, or their own weakness.

On that same note, the campaign is still a bit easy, even on very hard. It's difficult not to win (or be close to winning) before the invention of gunpowder and the discovery of the new world. That's been my experience from playing the Scottish, HRE and Spain, though the black death certainly fucks up any major European power when it hits.

I haven't had too much problem with the Pope, though his threats of excommunication can certainly be a bitch. Counter-attacking forces besieging your cities doesn't count as an act of aggression, though attacking enemy armies (even in your territory) does. Usually I fall back and wait for the rival faction to get excommunicated itself or for the excom threat to expire.

Overall, a vast improvement from R:TW, which I felt was the weakest in the TW series yet. AI has been vastly improved, over-powered units largely disposed of, and the gameplay is just more... interesting. After I finish playing rope-a-Pope as the HRE i'll try out a Muslim or Orthodox faction. Sicily looks pretty sweet as well - check out screenshots of the dismounted norman knights with their gladiator-esque masks.

P.s. - pathing on ladders in sieges is still fucked, as after the initial rush, troops will only climb one (instead of all four) ladders. AI also seems to still have problems assaulting any castle with more than one wall; it gets confused on bringing siege engines or rams through the first broken walls. Apparently there's another patch scheduled for February to fix this.

[WayAbvPar]

Picked this back up again this week...man, this game can be fun. I have developed a strict extermination policy for anyone who attacks me first- first the PoWs, then the populace. I want to get a big snake flag that says "Don't Fuck With Me" made to fly.

If only I could impale the PoWs to warn the others ala Vlad. That would be quality entertainment.

[Engels]

I want to get a big snake flag that says "Don't Fuck With Me" made to fly.

That would be the Milanese, I believe.

[Big Gulp]

Picked this back up again this week...man, this game can be fun. I have developed a strict extermination policy for anyone who attacks me first- first the PoWs, then the populace. I want to get a big snake flag that says "Don't Fuck With Me" made to fly.

Strangely enough, I also fall into historical mode with this game.  If I'm playing a Catholic power I'll release Catholic POW's, and just occupy cities.  Orthodox POW's get ransomed, and their cities get sacked.  I show no mercy to the Muslim infidels and just go Genghis Khan, with an army of priests bringing up the rear to convert those fuckers quick.

[eldaec]

The historical thing is cool if you're playing to a concept and everything - but I don't think it's ever an efficient way to play. As far as I can tell, executing if your commander has dread and releasing if he has chivalry is always the best plan - for the sake of building up positive traits.

Cities I always sack, the combination of reducing population for +public order, but not wiping out the population so it is still a viable province, and ++cash always makes me feel that sacking looks the best option in just about all circumstances.

[Big Gulp]

The historical thing is cool if you're playing to a concept and everything - but I don't think it's ever an efficient way to play.

Oh, definitely not.  I've never played the Total War games like I was "efficiency man".  For some reason I latch on to specific family members and damned near create back stories about 'em.  Currently my faction leader is virtuous as all hell, and my faction heir has a dread rating that would make Darth Vader feel like a sissy.  I know it's stupid, but I'm envisioning this bizarre black sheep family dynamic that I know isn't really there, but it does enhance my enjoyment.

These historical strategy games are almost perfect for me, because I get off on that sort of make-believe.  It's the same reason I loved Europa Universalis so much.  I know it sounds strange that I invest so much into these games, but hey, there it is.

[eldaec]

Currently my faction leader is virtuous as all hell, and my faction heir has a dread rating that would make Darth Vader feel like a sissy.  I know it's stupid, but I'm envisioning this bizarre black sheep family dynamic that I know isn't really there, but it does enhance my enjoyment.

Hah - I'm always the exact opposite.

Generals go about enforcing my divine will with a righteous fire (espeicially whichever general I've picked out to do all the crusading), whereas the faction leader always switches to dread primarily because pumping out as many assassins as I use gives your faction leader -morality.

Muslim factions can be a bit different because you need so many bloody imans to convert the infidels that I find I have to dedicate my biggest cities to religious production.

[Rasix]

Sat down for my first extended play of this title and I must say it's quite enjoyable.   Like a masochist, I pick my Spanish (go home team).  Talk about having their balls in a vice grip from the very start.  You've go the Moors running around everywhere, any second you're prepping for an incoming attack.  The shifty eyed Portuguese that I don't trust worth a darn.  But the worst are the French.  They constantly attack, declare war, then beg off for peace once you start amassing troops at their borders. 

I think I somehow managed to make matters worse.  With the French attacking, I hastily accept an alliance with the Moors. The French back off and then I come to the realization that I don't want a bunch of fucking Moops in my territory running around.  So, I start wailing on my allies.  Pope dies next turn.  Ooops, no one trusts me and I lose popedom by a landslide.  Now, the French are staring at my borders, the Portuguese want to ally but they're friends with the Moors, so I'm almost expecting them to attack.  There's got to be some sort of Moorish super army hiding somewhere.  AND WHERE ARE ALL OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS.. damnit, I don't have enough governors.

Fucking Council of Nobles wants me to take a French rebel castle at least 4 turns into French territory.   I don't want to do this.  I want to beat France, but not now.  I've got Muslims to punish.

[Daeven]

You need to encourage the Venetians to go on an anti-Moorish rampage throughout the Med. ;)

[WayAbvPar]

As far as creating family members- is there any benefit for waiting to marry off male faction members? How about adoptees? Should I take any and all comers? With my princesses, I try to wait for a decent general for a good fit, but I can't see any reason not to marry the men at first opportunity so they can start cranking out governors. I mean children.