Medieval 2 Discussion

[dusematic]

OK, here's another issue some of you may have encountered:


You send your calvalry into charge and they don't seem to add any shock value, and are actually at times slowing down and then pulling out swords and such instead of couching their lances as they engage.  Sound familiar? Well, I scouted the forums and apparently, MOST people assume that when you double click on a traget, your regiment will charge it.  Actually what happens is, they just "rush" to that spot.  If you want them to charge you must single click.  Then your regiment will walk to their charge range, and then start charging.

Apparently, this was thought to add to the realism because it isn't feasible for units to charge from hundreds of meters away and manage to hold a cohesive formation.  However, to me and a lot of others, this is a supremely unintuitive control scheme.

[dusematic]

An additional note that I gleaned from the forums today that I didn't know but has benefitted me greatly: 


When you select a building to be built, go into your settlement details where you can find the public order/trade/farming income modifiers.  A "grayed out" stat will have appaeared and you can see what the building will accomplish once it is built.  In this way, you can tell exactly what buildings will make the most economic sense to build at each moment in time.  Why build a 1200 florin warehouse in Bologna which yields an extra 50 florins per turn, when you can build a port for 800 florins in Ajaccio that will increase monies earned by 80 florins a turn? 

If you're like me, just sort of trying to use educated guesses, or at best, try and memorize the before and after of the totals stat in the settlement details screen, then this will be of great use.

[Engels]

What's the big disadvantage to being excommunicated? Tonight, playing HR Empire of all things, I got threatened with excomunication for trying to wipe out Venice, which had been harassing me for an hour. I'm like, the Pope is gonna excommunicate the HRE. Right. Go ahead, Papa, make my day.

[stray]

You can be "crusaded" upon if you're excommunicated. Not an ideal situation to say the least.

[Tebonas]

Well, its only CALLED the Holy Roman empire. In reality they often clashed with the pope as well. Frederick II for example was excommunicated twice and the pope called him the Antichrist.

[Yoru]

Apparently being excommunicated makes all the other non-excommunicated Catholic factions like you a lot less. The Milanese and Venetians have been excommunicated and reinstated a few times in my game; doesn't seem to have done much since they're fools for war with or without Popish approval.

[stray]

If one of those enemies you're fighting has a particularly high standing with the pope (especially those of the same nation as the pope), then there's a good chance they'll petition for crusade.

[dusematic]

People can attack you with impunity whether or not a crusade is called upon you (if you're excommunicated...hell, they can pretty much do that anyhow).  Also, perhaps the worst thing is that your public disorder skyrockets in your cities.  You need huge garrisons to quell the rising tide of pissed off people.  It really sucks. 


I can't wait until they release the patch, once you get deep into the game there are far too many bugs that destroy the immersiveness.  I've decided not to play anymore until I install that sucker.

[stray]

People can attack you with impunity whether or not a crusade is called upon you (if you're excommunicated...hell, they can pretty much do that anyhow).

 

Yeah, but they've got a cheap, instant supply of units to zerg you with.

[eldaec]

Dude, what's really pissing me off about this game is that I'll be at war with someone, and the Pope will give me a mission that says "make any aggressive action towards this faction and you'll be excommunicated."  BUT YOU'RE AT WAR WITH THEM. AND THEY KEEP. ON. ATTACKING YOU. 

I mean that has to be a bug right?  It's the stupidest thing in the world that you are expected to just be raped repeatedly while the enemy is in your lands and do nothing about it.  If it isn't a bug then I really don't respect that design decision.  Epitome of lame.  What a contrivance.

I don't know that it is so ridiculous. The modern day UN makes threats like this all the time.

And it's not as if any faction forgives you for being at war with their allies just because you didn't start it.

In the situation you describe the pope is not saying he expects you to talk Mr. Bond, he is saying he expects you to die.

[Big Gulp]

I don't know that it is so ridiculous. The modern day UN makes threats like this all the time.

And it's not as if any faction forgives you for being at war with their allies just because you didn't start it.

In the situation you describe the pope is not saying he expects you to talk Mr. Bond, he is saying he expects you to die.

Exactly why I like this, too.  A lot of people have only known PJP II as their Pope, and think the position is all sweetness and light.  It certainly wasn't back in the day.  You had warrior popes, popes engaged in the investiture controversy with the Holy Roman Emperors, popes who sold high offices and lived with their mistresses, a period of time when the Medici family tried to get the office for their family in perpetuity, and a period when the entire church infrastructure was exiled to France and there were at least three competing people all calling themselves "Pope".

In short, I like it when the Popes are vindicative, petty assholes.  Much closer to reality.

[Strazos]

OK, here's another issue some of you may have encountered:


You send your calvalry into charge and they don't seem to add any shock value, and are actually at times slowing down and then pulling out swords and such instead of couching their lances as they engage.  Sound familiar? Well, I scouted the forums and apparently, MOST people assume that when you double click on a traget, your regiment will charge it.  Actually what happens is, they just "rush" to that spot.  If you want them to charge you must single click.  Then your regiment will walk to their charge range, and then start charging.

Apparently, this was thought to add to the realism because it isn't feasible for units to charge from hundreds of meters away and manage to hold a cohesive formation.  However, to me and a lot of others, this is a supremely unintuitive control scheme.

Not intuitive, but accurate. You might be thankful for it if you can get use to it, so you're not accidentally draining the energy of your calvalry constantly.

[Daeven]

Dude, what's really pissing me off about this game is that I'll be at war with someone, and the Pope will give me a mission that says "make any aggressive action towards this faction and you'll be excommunicated."  BUT YOU'RE AT WAR WITH THEM. AND THEY KEEP. ON. ATTACKING YOU. 

No. Don't attack them and only defend. If you do this, *THEY* will get excommunicated. Then it's open season. And if they keep doing it (and if you get a 'friendly' pope), the pope will declare a Crusade against them. Or even better, you can petition for a crusade agaisnt them. A crusade against the French and Paris is a thing of Beauty.

[dusematic]

I've tried this and the Pope doesn't excommunicate the other side.

[WayAbvPar]

I KNEW I shouldn't have opened this thread. Looks like I will be making a stop at Fry's on the way home tonight.

Bastards!

[dusematic]

It's a good game and it's one patch away from nirvana.

[Strazos]

Isn't that what people said about SWG for Years?

[Daeven]

I've tried this and the Pope doesn't excommunicate the other side.

Huh. No idea why you had a different experience. This tactic has worked for me several times now. I wonder if it is because I have a military alliance with the Papal States (and now a friendly pope - the old Milanese bastard finally died. There was much mourning in the streets of Venice. Truly.)?

Venice, bringing you the Counter-Reformation Old School style.

[dusematic]

Yeah i think maybe what you're reporting has more to do with being very friendly with the Pope.

[WayAbvPar]

Picked it up last night and muddled my way through the tutorial. The default camera controls are teh sux- having to use the keypad on the SAME SIDE OF THE KEYBOARD AS THE MOUSE is fucking annoying as hell. I noticed there were some other camera control setups available, but I didn't have time to muck around with them yet. Is it remappable to WASD?

Partially due to the funky camera, and mostly due to the fact that I am an RTS n00bler, battles are a challenge for me. I have decided to try to get better at managing them, however, since the strategic part of the game seems pretty cool. I also LOVE the fact that I can play historical battles...that makes my nerd peen quiver in delight.

Doubt I will ever be competent enough for multiplayer, but I would be willing to join a game with a few others as a whipping boy...might learn a few things as I hemorrhage troops!

[Yoru]

I stayed up way too late last night (just.. one more turn...) and finished my first (short) campaign. Scotland owns the world.

Yeah, the strategic game is great, I haven't enjoyed a TBS this much since SMAC. (I started just pulling overwhelming odds in on every battle and auto-resolving.)

I plan on playing the real-time battle simulator a bunch to get a lot better at that; I'd really like to play an epic-length game and fight every battle myself to get the real "0wn the w0rld" experience. Maybe buy some mead and get a BK paper crown to wear while doing it. :)

[stray]

I've chilled out on the campaign a bit and have just been playing battles. Gonna pick it up again tonight though.

I agree though, the TBS portion is fun. But like I said, it'd be even cooler with more dimensions other than military buildup and conquest (though I guess that'd go against the whole idea of "Total War").

[edit]

BTW, has anyone played CivCity Rome? Any good?

TBS + City Sim sounds like a great idea too.

[Yoru]

I've chilled out on the campaign a bit and have just been playing battles. Gonna pick it up again tonight though.

I agree though, the TBS portion is fun. But like I said, it'd be even cooler with more dimensions other than military buildup and conquest (though I guess that'd go against the whole idea of "Total War").

Oh but there is. Get a couple 10-subterfuge assassins roaming around and you can seriously weaken entire regions. I blew away England by putting their capital under siege and then assassinating their King (who was sitting out in a field somewhere in Wales for no apparent reason) - the city immediately revolted, triggering the 'faction destroyed' message. Then I just went around assassinating the shit out of people. The Pope eventually started contracting with me to assassinate heretics; 2000 florins for killing a single heretic? Givemoneysplzkthx.

There's also the trade game of building up your cities and trade networks; something like 75% of my income was from trade and I had trade agreements with every Catholic and most Orthodox factions.

I wonder what would happen if you assassinated the entire college of cardinals on the same turn, then assassinated the Pope...

[stray]

That's cool and all, but assassination is still militaristic, just in a different way. I'm talking more about Civ's multi tiered focus on military, production, culture, and research. Something like that with a Total War battle engine would be the shit. Hell, stack on city simulation, and it'd be even more the shit than that.

Not that I'm complaining about Medieval II though.

[stray]

How do I raze a city again? I remember hearing about it in the tips, but I didn't pay much attention at the time.

[edit]

Man, am I imagining things? Is there even an option for this?

[Strazos]

God damn, now I gotta put this on my list of things to spend money for.

Unfortunately, it's kind of far down on a lengthy list.

[Big Gulp]

Man, am I imagining things? Is there even an option for this?

You mean like utterly destroying it, Carthage-style?  Nope, it doesn't exist.  The worst thing you can do is sack a city once you've taken it.

[stray]

Cool thanks. Nearly drove myself nuts last night trying to find a way.

Speaking of Carthage, I need a Hannibal game (plus theatrical feature). Rome:TW isn't good enough.

[WayAbvPar]

N00bed around with the Grand Campaign last night as England (when do I get access to the other factions?). I am still the world's worst battlefield commander, and I know almost nothing about the proper campaign strategies. However, I had a total fucking blast, so all was not lost  :-D

One more turn indeed.

[Yoru]

N00bed around with the Grand Campaign last night as England (when do I get access to the other factions?). I am still the world's worst battlefield commander, and I know almost nothing about the proper campaign strategies. However, I had a total fucking blast, so all was not lost  :-D

One more turn indeed.

There's like 10 more factions you can unlock. Or you can go to page 2 of this thread and find the unlocking instructions. :)

[stray]

N00bed around with the Grand Campaign last night as England (when do I get access to the other factions?). I am still the world's worst battlefield commander, and I know almost nothing about the proper campaign strategies. However, I had a total fucking blast, so all was not lost  :-D

One more turn indeed.

If you don't want to cheat, you can unlock them by completing a short campaign.

Some campaign strategy tips:

Don't bother with merchants (but do bother with merchant buildings)

If inquisitors are even near one of your low piety generals' cities, move them somewhere temporarily. They will be killed if you don't.

Build more cities than castles (and try to place your cities inland, with castles and forts on the outer/border areas).

Don't stuff all your cities with shitloads of troops (especially those inland ones). Paying their salaries gets expensive.

Never venture out on a ship with just one or two fleets. Make it five or six minimum.

[Yoru]

Some campaign strategy tips:

...

Build more cities than castles (and try to place your cities inland, with castles and forts on the outer/border areas).

Don't stuff all your cities with shitloads of troops (especially those inland ones). Paying their salaries gets expensive.

Never venture out on a ship with just one or two fleets. Make it five or six minimum.

I tend to send out a pair of ships with a spy to do exploring, sometimes a diplomat too to open trade agreements; if I lose 'em, big deal.

As for cities, stuff 'em full of the best pike militia you can buy, up to the free-upkeep limit. Cities let you keep some amount of the spearman pike units on hand for free - 5 for the largest cities, 1 or 2 for the little towns, I think.

Oh, and the AI is currently bugged and will never attack islands with troops. Island fortresses and towns make excellent staging grounds for transaquatic invasions. (I heart Corsica and Sardinia. And the British Isles.) This also means they'll never take certain islands - Corsica, Sardinia, Finland and some little island off Turkey are what I've discovered so far.

[Rithrin]

Oh, and the AI is currently bugged and will never attack islands with troops. Island fortresses and towns make excellent staging grounds for transaquatic invasions. (I heart Corsica and Sardinia. And the British Isles.) This also means they'll never take certain islands - Corsica, Sardinia, Finland and some little island off Turkey are what I've discovered so far.

The AI factions might not, but in my last campaign I had a pirate fleet drop off a three-starred brigand general with 7 stacks of troops onto Corsica and siege it. That wasn't fun at all (Well, it was fun, but you get the point). I dunno if its just my campaign, but the pirate fleets love covertly inserting rebel/brigand armies behind my main lines.

[stray]

Gah. Playing a Brit campaign now. This is like Easy Mode or sumthin'. I've taken over the entire British Isles, plus I've knocked down France to two cities. Doing the equivalent with France seemed like twice as long.

Also, the long campaign is TOO long. Should be 50 territories, I think.

[dusematic]

Dude the long campaign is only 45 territories, (plus sometimes a Holy Land province) so 50 would actually be longer.  Also, what diffiulty are you playing on?  Unless it's Very Hard/ Very Hard, then you really are playing on easy mode.