Medieval 2 Discussion

[dusematic]

Everyone's artillery does.

[dusematic]

Anyone ever bribed an army?  Even when I have 10,000+ gold, and am targeting a shitling army without a general, they always refuse.  The manual makes bribing out to be the shit, whatever.

[stray]

Everyone's artillery does.

Wait...Really? I'm way behind then.

[Yoru]

Install impression is negative - the version of SecuROM Safedisc they're using seems to loathe my DVD drive and won't recognize my DVDs as legit. 

Time to do what must be done. Stupid publishers. So full of hate.

[stray]

Damn, that sucks. 

[Yoru]

Played a bunch. Scotland is now this close --> <-- to owning the British Isles. Just a pesky matter of some peasants in Londontown left.

It probably would've been harder, but they tried to take one of my less-fortified garrisons (200 men in a wooden stockade) with the majority of their forces (100 cavalry, ~800 infantry, 100 archers). Blew up their ram early on (yay fire arrows), forcing their entire 800-man infantry column to attempt to simultaneously climb a single pair of ladders.

Needless the say, my computer nearly ate it, dropping down to a couple of seconds per frame towards the middle. Fortunately, defending against guys on ladders is really really easy, so my 120 highlanders (+1 rank, +1 weapons, +1 armor) wore 'em down sufficiently to get the remnants of the 800-man charging force to run away like little girls.

The rain of flaming fire-arrow death probably helped.

At that point, they somehow magicked up a second ram; a lone unit of peasants pushed it to the gate and broke through. The remaining English cavalry (which mostly stood around outside my walls getting shot at by towers the whole time) were pretty readily crushed by my leader's unit, which is good since I was down to single digits for my last pikeman and highlander units.

Went in with 200 men, came out with around 80 (apparently not everyone who falls is killed). They went in with around 1000 men, left with less than 200.

Tomorrow, the march on London. :)

I like it so far, although Medium is seeming quite easy, even for my first campaign. The UI is a bit clumsy in places, and I'm going to have to remap the hotkeys quite a bit. But other than that, it seems a worthy addition to any hardcore strategy fan's library.

[dusematic]

Someone else play on hard campaign difficulty and tell me whether or not the AI gangs up on you.  I'm at war with Venice, France, Holy Roman Empire, and Sicily.  Then I got excommunicated for no reason other than defending myself from a Holy Roman attack.  By the way I'm Milan which means I'm beset on every side with enemies who are constantly sending armies at me.  What's really galling is that initially in the very beginning of the game I made an alliance with my Italian brothers Venice, who prompty betrayed me by attacking one of my cities without notice.

I don't know whether the computer is cheezing it, or if Venice is just manipulating her allies against me.  I'm going for the former, because Diplomatic relations are pretty basic.  Yes, they are much improved over Rome and Medieval, but people seem to start off hating me (at least on hard with Milan) and there isn't much you can do to change that perception. 


I have been desperately flailing for an ally in this struggle, and finally convinced England to assist me.  They haven't helped at all, and probably only accepted because I'm the number one power in the land and because they too are at war with France.  Despite being allies, they consider me to be "so-so."  Great. 


I finally have resigned myself to no outside help, it is unfortunate that my only princess to date died tragically of disease, I was just about to forge a marriage alliance.  Right now it's been a stalemate for about 20 turns, with me basically pumping out max italian spearmen every turn just to keep up, and seriously hamsrtung by the prodigious amount of unrest created by the excommunication.  That's becasue I need 10 man garrisons and low taxes just to prevent riots.  But it just goes to show how strong the Italian economies are, especially with all cities.  I'm incredibly still makign like 5,000 florins a turn, with the largest army in the game, and only seven provinces to support it *and the aforementioned low taxes I've been forced to levy). 


But FINALLY the pope just died, and I voted corecctly, and desperately for the new Hungarian Pope.  If Venice would have won, which they almost did, I would have been royally fucked.  That would have been another guaranteed 20 turns of excommunication plus the Papal States themselves probably would have allied with Venice and then attacked me.  Fortunately, as it stands, I have a "perfect" relationship with the papacy. One would think this would help me a lot long term, but they are allied with the Holy Romans, and I'm betting anything that if I can't end that war, my relationship with the papacy will deteriorate once again.

[Big Gulp]

and I'm betting anything that if I can't end that war, my relationship with the papacy will deteriorate once again.

True to history, since I'm playing the Holy Roman Empire, the Pope hates me.  Unfortunately for the Pope I own Florence and Bologna, so I'm right above the Papal states.  If I'm ever excommunicated I will be traveling south to sack Rome and show the Pope just how far his pointy hat can be inserted rectally.

I don't know if it'll actually make any difference in the game, but it will be cathartic for me.  Especially since it seems like the Inquisition has set up permanent residence in my territories and has destroyed way too many of my family members, priests, and merchants (when I was still making them, not knowing they were useless).

[dusematic]

Shit.  It's weird, I'm chilling right next to Rome and it never even crossed my mind to sack Rome after I was excommunicated.  I'm pretty sure that's some kind of socialization at work.  I really should have just taken the city.  Would have been cool to see the papacy relocate.  I wonder if a crusade would have been called against me at that point?  Probably, I've seen one called on Toulouse before, albeit, that's the only time I've seen it called on a catholic settlement.

[Big Gulp]

I wonder if a crusade would have been called against me at that point? 

It happened to an actual Holy Roman Emperor; Frederick II Hohenstauffen.  He grew up in Sicily and so was friendly with Muslims, which automatically put him under suspicion.  From all reports he was incredibly irreligious, which was bizarre for the 13th century.  Also the fact that HRE territory was positioned directly to the north and the south of the Papal States got the pope a wee bit worried.

Long story short, the Pope had been hectoring him forever to go on a crusade to retake Jerusalem.  Eventually he agrees to, but comes down with an illness and postpones.  The Pope has a hissy fit, excommunicates him and further tells him that now he can't go on crusade.  Frederick II ignores him, and goes on crusade.  Not the usual crusade, though, since he was so friendly with the Muslim powers he was able to cut a deal with them where he just waltzed into Jerusalem and took it over without a fight of any kind.  The Pope now really goes apeshit and actually calls for a crusade against Frederick II.

Church history is fun.   :-D

[Strazos]

If it's anything like the old Medieval games, killing the Pope just makes another Pope pop up. Sacking and occupying the Papal States causes the Papal seat to go into exile.

I just remember the mechanics around messing directly with the Papacy being very odd.

[eldaec]

If it's anything like the old Medieval games, killing the Pope just makes another Pope pop up. Sacking and occupying the Papal States causes the Papal seat to go into exile.

I just remember the mechanics around messing directly with the Papacy being very odd.

'R'ing the 'F' 'M' tells us that a new pope is elected and petitions catholic states for a new region from which to base operations.

New-pope then loves the faction that gave him his new digs; hates you; gets all the other catholic factions to hate you; and gets all your minions to hate you.

[Strazos]

Ah, ok, so it works different than the old M:TW game.

I don't own this one yet, so I don't have a manual to read.  :-D

[Daeven]

"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon Bonaparte

"I do not have to tell you who won the war. You know, the artillery did." - Gen George S. Patton

"Ultima Ratio Regum." -- Translation: the final argument of kings. -- Motto engraved on French cannons at the direction of Louis XIV

"Artillery is the god of war." - Stalin

"Contrary to popular belief, we at artillery command do not believe we're God. We merely borrowed His "Smite" button." - Anonymous

"The Mission of the Artillery is to give some class to what would otherwise be merely a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

"An artillery barrage is a terrifying thing." - Erich Maria Remarque

How to make any enemy army run away in terror in one quick step: enfilade fire from a battery of bombards and mortars.

I'm currently running through a long game as Venice. While the Italian militia is nice, adding in some feudal knights and dismounted feudal knights for 'shock' doesn't hurt at all.

[dusematic]

How hard would it have been to add hotseat capability to this game? That would have been great, the battles could at the very least be simulated.  No network play either.  Would be amazing to play a campaign with other people, even if the battles were all simulated.

[stray]

Replayed Rome a bit...

It didn't register to me until now how shiny this new game really is.

[Yoru]

Any suggestions how to get princesses out of your territory? I've got three English tarts sitting around York, Nottingham and London and every turn they seem to try to propose to my generals or something. Fortunately I married all the boys young.

I've run the bastards off the Isles at this point - took way more casualties running the sieges of Nottingham and London myself than I really  should have. Wall fighting sucks, as does having to cut through three regiments of royal guards with three regiments of pike militia. Made a bit of a mistake by taking a breather to rebuild their cities - they've expanded out of their little fortress across the Channel and now somehow control Paris with a HUGE garrison. Fortunate the Danes are whacking their fort, so I expect I'll just use my ex-Crusader army to siege Paris into submission.

Also, wtf is up with Inquisitors? I had a Crusading army 2 turns from Constantinople and then this asshat Inquisitor waltzes over and burns my general at the stake (with a whole four piety points! One of the highest ones I had!). Since they're so far from home, I can't get another general to them in one turn, and the entire 15000-florin army disbands. Argh!

[stray]

Inquisitors are bullshit, merchants are bullshit, assassins are bullshit.

[eldaec]

Any suggestions how to get princesses out of your territory?

Get an assassin to stick a poisonous snake up her privates.



Princesses are easier to kill than most agents.

assassins are bullshit.

Assassins are in no way bullshit.

You need a spy to work with them, stick a spy in an enemy city, then train your assassins by blowing up public order buildings. It is a great way to destabalise a faction that you plan to attack next, since you rarely get caught. The spy is important because he makes sure you can choose the building with the highest % chance of success.

What is bullshit is the percentages quoted for success, assassins seem much more likely to succeed than the quoted percentage suggests.

Also, a big improvent in assassin effectiveness in this game, is that unlike previous total war games experienced assassins will *usually* survive failed missions.

There is one new downside to assassins. You cannot destroy factions with them anymore, I managed to assassinate the entire Scottish royal family in a single turn, unfortunately a new leader just pops up.


EDIT: Unless you meant the other guy's assassins, yeah, they are intensely annoying.

[Yoru]

Any suggestions how to get princesses out of your territory?

Get an assassin to stick a poisonous snake up her privates.



Princesses are easier to kill than most agents.

Tried it on two different ones; 33% chance of success for the guy right out of school, failed both, put him on a ship to the mainland for some training and ... pirates attack the ship just outside of port.

Fuckers.

I'll train some assassins and see if I can weaken the English a bit that way, then take out the girlies. Well, if their faction still exists by the time the assassin gets back, anyway.

[eldaec]

Also, an aside, when the hell am I going to get my Total War MMO?

In my imaginary, posted-about-far-too-often, omg-bbq, imaginary-best-game-evar, you'd play a general who gets a handful of units and retinue, and you'd team with other generals to face off against npc rebels, and enemy player realms in set piece battles a la total war.

Experience levels would give you more 'points' which which you buy unit upgrades/abilities (principly specialisms which have downsides as well as upsides, much like total war units), and more unit/retinue slots, so that a high level general can choose a different set of units to lead into battle. Some effort would be made to ensure that battles are between army groups of similar points amounts.

Your retinue would craft equipment and heal fallen unit members over time, they'd gather resources in locations which your realm controlled, or act as scouts giving some degree of advance knowledge of enemy troop disposition, or incapacitate enemy units or their captains or whatever.

It could have magic and elves if it really must - though it is not at all necessary, total war artillery provides all the flaming death anyone really needs.

[Ironwood]

There is one new downside to assassins. You cannot destroy factions with them anymore, I managed to assassinate the entire Scottish royal family in a single turn, unfortunately a new leader just pops up.

Yeah, that sounds like us.

[Daeven]

It could have magic and elves if it really must - though it is not at all necessary, total war artillery provides all the flaming death anyone really needs.

*nods* 'Mercenary el Capitan Online' could be lots of fun. On the Ocean? You're pirates. Or Privateers. On land? Your a 'Free company'. Or a militia for a town. Or Robber Barons.

Sign me up.

[Sky]

LFM for Scot farming XP army!

[Engels]

Anyone know how to deal with plauge? The 'helper' said I needed to quarantine the towns affected, but I couldn't find that option for the life of me. The plagues can hit really hard, putting you in the red for 10+ turns if you're not careful.

To be honest, I think they went a bit nuts with the artillery; after a while, you get heavy ordnance coming out your rear, and the whole point of medieval warfare sort of goes out the window when you can just sit back and blow the heck out of the enemy before you send in any troops.

[stray]

Anyone know how to deal with plauge?

I haven't dealt with it yet, but I imagine that you need to increase public health bonuses somehow. You need to build more town halls/mayor's palaces for that. Certain civilizations have additional ways of going about it as well (Byzantium gets public baths and aqueducts for example...Arab nations get hospitals).

[Engels]

Ok, so I am not losing my mind; there is no 'quarantine this city' function, correct?

I'm currently working on the Spanish reconquista, which is a lot of fun. Between England and Spain(my side) we've already wiped out France entirely. I'm currently ignoring the Pope's calls for a crusade, since those Mongols are just a bunch of catass l33t power invaders with way too much time on their hands. Besides, Antioch is way the fook over in the boonies, who cares?

The moorish area is a bitch to conquer since their southern cities are way way down in the middle of nowhere. Getting to Timbuktu took forever, since I kept on getting intercepted by army after army of moors cockblocking my righteous desire to smack 'em. But no worries, I've converted most of northern Africa to Catholicism through sheer priest zerging.

[Yoru]

Ok, so I am not losing my mind; there is no 'quarantine this city' function, correct?

I got hit with a plague in York last night; no, AFAIK, there's no Quarantine This City button - you just don't move units into or out of it. Any units. At all.

I also had the city start constructing buildings that boosted public health while they were plagued. Might've helped, but probably not.

[eldaec]

Returning to my earlier theme of spies and assassins being teh awesome....

Build spies in plague cities - then send them to Paris and Edinburgh to spread the love.

[Raging Turtle]

I hate you all for making me want this game.  Any word on when the patch is expected to be out?

[stray]

Returning to my earlier theme of spies and assassins being teh awesome....

Build spies in plague cities - then send them to Paris and Edinburgh to spread the love.

I like spies, but I just don't have any luck with my assassins. They're as reliable as merchants.

As for the tactic above: Genius.

[dusematic]

Dude, what's really pissing me off about this game is that I'll be at war with someone, and the Pope will give me a mission that says "make any aggressive action towards this faction and you'll be excommunicated."  BUT YOU'RE AT WAR WITH THEM. AND THEY KEEP. ON. ATTACKING YOU. 

I mean that has to be a bug right?  It's the stupidest thing in the world that you are expected to just be raped repeatedly while the enemy is in your lands and do nothing about it.  If it isn't a bug then I really don't respect that design decision.  Epitome of lame.  What a contrivance.

[dusematic]

Also, factions will often times decline to accept even the most generous of ceasefires despite losing the war, or even being on the verge of annhilation.  However, pretty much all my concerns are in the patch wish list, so with luck, we'll see them resolved soon.

[Yoru]

Dude, what's really pissing me off about this game is that I'll be at war with someone, and the Pope will give me a mission that says "make any aggressive action towards this faction and you'll be excommunicated."  BUT YOU'RE AT WAR WITH THEM. AND THEY KEEP. ON. ATTACKING YOU. 

I mean that has to be a bug right?  It's the stupidest thing in the world that you are expected to just be raped repeatedly while the enemy is in your lands and do nothing about it.  If it isn't a bug then I really don't respect that design decision.  Epitome of lame.  What a contrivance.

I got this three times in a row when trying to rid the Isles of the English. I'm sitting here dying of army upkeep costs and the Pope's all "sit yo' ass down, clown, or you get the boot". Then the English cardinal died and it stopped happening. In fact, the Pope gave me a mission to go clobber the Danish; I'm ignoring him since they're worth like 400 florins/turn to me.

As for ceasefires, yeah, I got that too. Then I knocked them down to a single castle left and their princesses hurried on up to make peace. Like a fool, I accepted to try to build up the new digs and now I've gotta siege Paris.

[dusematic]

Reading on the froums that the first update will be in about two weeks.



Edit:  actually, that was 2 weeks ago that it was supposed to be in 2 weeks, and there is 18 pages of people saying ok where the hell is the update.