DAOC appears to promise free level each week

[eldaec]

Now, time for even better news! During the last year, Mythic has made DAoC an easier game to play than ever before. We have introduced a more group-friendly system and made it easier than ever before for new players as well as casual gamers to play and succeed in DAoC. However, we want to go even farther than that and we will do so over the next few weeks. As part of this we will introduce a number of initiatives, the biggest of which is the “Gift of the Realm” system. How this system works is quite simple. At certain time intervals (more on this later), players will be able to go to their trainer and receive special rewards for their character. These rewards will include a new experience level as well as gold on a weekly basis. These changes are designed to help the casual as well as the new player succeed more quickly in DAoC. Thus, players will be able to level their characters more quickly than ever before and in a way that rewards people of all play-styles (casual, hard-core) equally. When we first launched DAoC, we wanted it to be accessible to all kinds of play-styles and we will continue and expand in this tradition. We are also planning to add in-game maps (for non RvR areas) as well as new systems to make grouping even easier than before. We will also be adding things like in-game keyboard configuration as well as other things as part of this initiative, with lots more to come over the next six months.

Damn - might make me resub just to finish off and try out all those alts I couldn't face lvls 40-50 on.

They go on to have another go at pushing for realm population balance.

the Gift of the Realm program will also be sped up on those Realms we determine to be under-populated. The intervals at which the gift is received will be shortened on those servers where the population and the realm are out-of-balance. Once again, this is a time-based award not one based on the number of things you kill, quests you solve, etc. but rather a bonus given to everyone with a realm/server combination that needs a bit of a boost. Also, this is a true bonus and the leveling time/cost/etc. for peoples’ characters, realms, servers, etc. are not being added to prior to this change or after this change (a favorite retail scam, first markup the prices then announce a BIG SALE!!!).

[WayAbvPar]

Wow. That is actually not a terrible idea! The bad news is this may cause me to resubscribe for at least a couple of months. Bastards.

[MrHat]

ACK!

My will to stay away from MMORPG's is fading fast...

[Furiously]

Until the do the same for master levels, count me out.  Master Level 5 was the most painful raid I have ever walked out of.

[HaemishM]

I just read this and was about to post it. I'm completely floored. Of course, I'll have to wait until the details are in place, but in theory, it sounds like a great "loyalty/retention" plan.

[schild]

Neat idea, but stupid. Free levels doesn't make me want to play the game. Especially since EVERYONE will be getting a free level each week. If it were say levels 1-20 that got a free level each week, that would make more sense considering how long the games been around. Now catching up with the veterans will take considerably longer, since they to are gaining that extra level.

As far as the free gold goes, meh, what difference does it make?

[WayAbvPar]

Anything that lessens the grind to get to 'the good stuff' (in this case, PvP) is all good.

Bollocks. What server/realm is everyone playing on? I would prefer an underdog/underpopulated realm...must be the old Hibernian coming out in me.

[Furiously]

Free higher level buffbots?

[HRose]

If it's another attempt at solving the population balance it's also one of the silliest ideas I've ever heard.

Instead making the experience fun, they are removing it. In line with /level 20.

Worst. Design. Idea. Ever.

[eldaec]

catching up with the veterans

The point that free xp stops at lvl 50, which isn't the end of character development, but is the start fo the real game, veterans get here quickly anyway by pling, veterans do not play sub-50s in the way the game is actually intended, only novices or people who refuse to buy 2 accounts have to do that.

Currently 1-50 (or 20-50) is the barrier to starting a new alt that stands between rolling a character and actually playing the damn game. Remove it completely and you have idiots swapping classes every 10 seconds and not knowing how to play, and you lose the sense of identity you get from character building.

But *capping* the time to 50, which is what this does, seems to make a lot of sense.

[Rasix]

Another bandaid for the crappiest level climb in any game.

Nice for the fans, though.  It would be nicer if I could just /level 50 and skip the entire boring as hell spreadsheet battle.

Really, that's the path to my wallet. Hell, I'll sign a paper saying I will go and buy the new expansions and all sub for at least 3 months if they just make it so I don't have to wack 20 different flavors of spriggarns just to make the fun start.

Best part is, /level 50 would really only add more buffbots.  You need lots of RA points, superior loot, and master levels to be an RVR superstar.  But would this would do is get more people out into the main part of the game.   Alas, long drawn out pve treadmills generate money. Money wins.

[geldonyetich]

All that really does is put a 1 week cap on how long it takes someone to level.   I can't say I hate the idea overmuch, as it does help to put the catasses and casual players on somewhat more equal ground.    Of course, everybody who takes full advantage of this is guarenteed to be 50 in a under a year.   Thus, everybody who takes full advantage of this is also guanteed a shot to be PvP viable.

[HaemishM]

Well, keep in mind we don't know the exact nature of this. It may not give experience to artifacts, or Master Level experience. It also doesn't give realm ranks.

But what it could do, is push folks towards level 50 faster, which makes RVR a much better experience for all, as well as driving PVE towards Trials of Atlantis, and getting any new players up to Battleground levels quicker.

[HRose]

We expect to lose up to a couple of thousand people if we continue to follow through on this policy. And follow up on this we will do, no matter the cost. I have said before that Mythic is willing to sacrifice subscriber revenue in order to have a better game for the vast majority of players (percentage of cheaters among DAoC’s subscribers is very, very low) who don’t need nor want to cheat in order to succeed in DAoC and we have backed that up with our actions in the recent past and will continue to do so in the future.

Buffbots? Hypocrites.

DAoC doesn't require you to have a level 50 to start to enjoy the game. The PvP now works from level 1 and it's way more fun than what you can do at level 50. The only broken part is that the game is strongly gold and item driven. And PvP isn't enough to get those.

The game has still many crucial issues that Mythic continues to dodge. The more they go on the more they'll suffer for these unsolved issues that they are bringing along the way.

[HaemishM]

You get coin from some PVP kills now. It's actually a pretty decent bit of coin at my level. The housing market makes most item-gathering a simple matter of search, horse ride, purchase, teleport back. New portal scrolls make travel in the old world almost a 5-minute to anywhere proposition.

Buffbots are still a problem and are going to be until they make ALL buffs have a range factor, or at least all concentration style buffs. They either can't or won't do that.

Not being buffbotted myself, it really hasn't felt like I'm outclassed at all times. I give about as good as I get if I play well.

[HRose]

No buffs must be group ENFORCED.

Whatever helps you outside the group dynamic is a cheat. I don't give a damn about their policy. IT IS A CHEAT. Both in PvP and PvE.

[eldaec]

No buffs must be group ENFORCED.

Whatever helps you outside the group dynamic is a cheat. I don't give a damn about their policy. IT IS A CHEAT. Both in PvP and PvE.

I'd have to disagree. the problem is not the group.

RvR is not specifically about group vs group - espeicially since 1.70.

A great many of the ToA support abilities are intentionally designed for out of group support.

The problem is not that you can get support from out of group.

The problem is that you can get support (whether in or out of group) from invulnerable characters who are not at the battle site.

The second problem is that rp/xp/mlxp/whatever is not shared for out of group support (fixing this would stop pve buffbotting taking the place of groups dead in it's tracks).

A third (minor) problem is that a pve buffbot won't ever gain pve aggro.

[HRose]

I'd have to disagree. the problem is not the group.

RvR is not specifically about group vs group - espeicially since 1.70.

I absolutely agree since I love the master abilities as a concept (instead both their achievement and use is HORRID).

The fact is that you have a NATURAL access to those. It's in the gameplay. Owning a buffbot isn't in the goddamn gameplay. It's about owning two accounts and exploiting a game mechanic.

So. Or you remove them. Or you let everyone use them. MLs are availabe to everyone. Buffbots are availabe at 13$ each month.

[HaemishM]

The second problem is that rp/xp/mlxp/whatever is not shared for out of group support (fixing this would stop pve buffbotting taking the place of groups dead in it's tracks).

I don't think I understood that. I get RP's for damage I do solo even if I'm not the one who kills the other player (and another group is). I even get coin for it sometimes. Not sure about the non-RP related bits.

[HRose]

The second problem is that rp/xp/mlxp/whatever is not shared for out of group support (fixing this would stop pve buffbotting taking the place of groups dead in it's tracks).

This is why I consider it a cheat. The exp is based on who is in the group and their level. A buffbot isn't considered and it's a way to play in 9 but share the experience between 8.

Same in PvP. The exact same model of 8+1. Where "1" is still an advantage because it doesn't modify how many RPs you'll receive.

It's a cheat because it breaks the basic rules of the game.

[HRose]

I don't think I understood that. I get RP's for damage I do solo even if I'm not the one who kills the other player (and another group is). I even get coin for it sometimes. Not sure about the non-RP related bits.

You aren't a buffbot Haemish. You gain point when you deal damage. A buff isn't considered in the dynamic.

[eldaec]

The second problem is that rp/xp/mlxp/whatever is not shared for out of group support (fixing this would stop pve buffbotting taking the place of groups dead in it's tracks).

I don't think I understood that. I get RP's for damage I do solo even if I'm not the one who kills the other player (and another group is). I even get coin for it sometimes. Not sure about the non-RP related bits.

Yep. But if you heal or buff someone attacking an enemy (outside your group), you mostly get jack, and the people who did the damage get 100% of  the reward.

This is part of why buffbots are attractive.

The buffbot helps you kill things, but does not absorb any of the rp.

Wheras an out of group dps class friend can also help you kill things, but would absorb his share of the rp.

[HRose]

The buffbot helps you kill things, but does not absorb any of the rp.

Yes, a level 50 warrior hitting a monster will take away all the exp.

A level 50 buffbot is just there to give you a considerable advantage that isn't considered in the mechanic.

[Numtini]

Add range to buffs and your buffbot problems go away and the way people port around the frontier now, it doesn't have to be a particularly short range. Mythic won't do it because there's an ungodly number of bot accounts (and that's on the roleplaying server!)

But free levels is great. The game under 50 is absolutely stone dead. You can't get a group for anything (hi, I'm a cleric and I can't get a group. That's how dead the PVE game is). Most people solo with a bot and uber equipment. There's even less challenge than there ever was and there's nobody to talk to while you do it.

It's just wasting your time and right now it's a big big problem for new players. Even starting with the full support of an uberguild and at 47th level, I almost quit after a few weeks because getting up to speed was such a daunting task between artifacts and MLs. Start at one? No, it would just be so painful.

The really interesting part for me was the claim that when they're done with their anti-cheating campaign, they'll have booted literally thousands of players. That's pretty cool.

[MrHat]

Add range to buffs and your buffbot problems go away and the way people port around the frontier now, it doesn't have to be a particularly short range. Mythic won't do it because there's an ungodly number of bot accounts (and that's on the roleplaying server!)

But free levels is great. The game under 50 is absolutely stone dead. You can't get a group for anything (hi, I'm a cleric and I can't get a group. That's how dead the PVE game is). Most people solo with a bot and uber equipment. There's even less challenge than there ever was and there's nobody to talk to while you do it.

It's just wasting your time and right now it's a big big problem for new players. Even starting with the full support of an uberguild and at 47th level, I almost quit after a few weeks because getting up to speed was such a daunting task between artifacts and MLs. Start at one? No, it would just be so painful.

The really interesting part for me was the claim that when they're done with their anti-cheating campaign, they'll have booted literally thousands of players. That's pretty cool.

Then how come Haemish is having a good time?

I WANT TO HAVE A GOOD TIME TOO!

[Soukyan]

Add range to buffs and your buffbot problems go away and the way people port around the frontier now, it doesn't have to be a particularly short range. Mythic won't do it because there's an ungodly number of bot accounts (and that's on the roleplaying server!)

But free levels is great. The game under 50 is absolutely stone dead. You can't get a group for anything (hi, I'm a cleric and I can't get a group. That's how dead the PVE game is). Most people solo with a bot and uber equipment. There's even less challenge than there ever was and there's nobody to talk to while you do it.

It's just wasting your time and right now it's a big big problem for new players. Even starting with the full support of an uberguild and at 47th level, I almost quit after a few weeks because getting up to speed was such a daunting task between artifacts and MLs. Start at one? No, it would just be so painful.

The really interesting part for me was the claim that when they're done with their anti-cheating campaign, they'll have booted literally thousands of players. That's pretty cool.

Then how come Haemish is having a good time?

I WANT TO HAVE A GOOD TIME TOO!

Haemish hasn't burnt out yet. It took me two years to burn out, but nowadays, you can do it much quicker. Either that or the game really and truly fits all of his fun requirements, in which case, congrats to Haemish.

[schild]

Haemish hasn't burnt out yet. It took me two years to burn out, but nowadays, you can do it much quicker. Either that or the game really and truly fits all of his fun requirements, in which case, congrats to Haemish.

Yes, Haemish, what say you about this, does it fit all the requirements? Or is it that the rest of the shit on the market fits your requirements less?

[geldonyetich]

Personally I'm staying out of DAOC.  I mean, it's a fine product and all, but if I'm looking for an EQ ("PVE/hack and slash/Virtual diku-mud") derivative I've found FFXI's style to be the most entertaining of the current lot.    (Of course, FFXI's interface is a big turn off for many.)

Right now, I'm looking for something more along the lines of an UO ("Virtual world") derivative, and that's why I'm playing SWG.   That it has a space expansion coming up is a nice consideration as w ell.   (Although again I warn: Don't play it for the combat.  At least until they get around to giving it the full revamp.)

[Numtini]

I've found FFXI's style to be the most entertaining of the current lot

I'd agree, but the grouping range was just killing me.

[addryc]

Being a long-time DAoC player with a level 50, I personally think this is a great idea.  I have 2 or 3 alts I'm trying to level up currently - and whilst I'm in a GREAT guild, I'm trying very hard to do it the old-fashioned way without much/any in the way of PLing.  Since I tend to spend a lot of time helping my guildies on my 50, there isn't a LOT of time to be levelling lowbies - also, since as some of you have said, there are a lot less people at the lower levels than there used to be - getting free levels from time to time will be a nice bonus!

I do honestly think DAoC is in it for the long haul - whilst sure, there are issues in terms of balance (What game with PvP DOESN'T have these?) - they seem to be at least trying to come up with some good ideas to give back to their players - and also to listen to their players - they have been taking a bunch of feedback on 1.70 and putting in features to try and alleviate concerns/issues.  Time will tell if it will fix RvR!

[daveNYC]

This, combined with their offer to copy existing characters to new accounts for $$ should boost the population of the realms.  Of course the population boost will probably be all buffbots.

Maybe I'll resub anyway.

[eldaec]

Clarification on herald.

Free levels and gold only given out in weeks you got a level by normal means.

Still halves the time from 45-50 I guess (unless you can pl). But no auto levelling of 8 characters.

They also talk about increasing the camp bonus (bonus xp for killing mobs that haven't died much in the last 2 or 3 hours).

Thing is, they've increased the camp bonus several times, it still doesn't even approach compensating for the overhead of moving a group around rather than staying at the best campsite. It will help solo necro-plers a little though, since with only one person - moving around is less hassle.

[HaemishM]

I thought about it this morning and realized that it couldn't possibly have said what we thought it said (i.e. free levels each week). Still, it's not a bad spiff to retain loyalty.

Why am I having fun?

Simply put, PVP without the goddamn hassles.

1) Relatively bug-free
2) Instant action (almost) with the battlegrounds
3) Improved transportation
4) Ability to level and get coin from pure PVP
5) Shitton of different abilities to consider
6) PVE is now an option, not a requirement (once you get to 20)
7) At least at the levels I'm at, PVP has a decent bit of skill involved - THIS MAY CHANGE WITH LEVELS
8) Stable and with little lag issues (I don't consistently get the stuttering issues that Hrose seems to have)
9) AND MOST IMPORTANT, I NEVER GOT BURNED OUT ON THIS GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I capped #9 because I think that says most of it. Even when I quit DAoC, I still thought it was the best game of its type out there. Had Shadowbane not been so buggy, the design issues that made losing so harsh and the time sink so stringent probably would have made me quit anyway. With DAoC, I can find the PVP action I crave, I'm not too worried about whether I'm solo or grouped, and I can play for an hour or 30 minutes and have fun with it, just like CoH, only with PVP that's a bit more challenging and dynamic.

Win win, you ask me.

[Anonymous]

Note to Haemish:  Don't ever, ever, ever try RvR at 50.  That is all.

[Fargull]

I know Schild mentioned it in the SWG Re-sub bad idea stick needles in the eyes thread.. but I had my DAOC account active when COH came out and I could just not go back to walking in molasses for game play.  Hell, normal movement in COH feels as fast as skald movement in DAOC.

I dont know if COH movement has ruined other MMORPG movement, but I can not stomac going back to DAOC.