Wii Q&A Thread

[Tale]

My Wii has been value for money. It's kind of crap, but it's fun.

Wii Sports always entertains friends and family when they visit, or if I take it to their houses.

I'm a broad-shouldered guy descended from farmers, not made for sitting hunched over a keyboard. My MMORPG addictions have taken a toll on my back and posture. Playing Wii Sports standing up is exactly what I've been after: exercise plus gaming. I admired DDR for the same reason, but never got into it.

I want more of this game type. I want to have to jump around and swing the sword (Zelda was disappointingly non-physical use of the Wiimote).

The Wii Internet channel has also been good for watching YouTube (currently my number one site - I've found a lot of talented vloggers, actors and entertainers that I like to follow). Navigating YouTube with the Wiimote is fine and with zooming in, the videos take up my whole TV screen. I'm aware the other consoles have Internet browsing, but this has worked fine for me and it was cheaper.

[Hokers]

Discovery HD will absolutely convert you to HDTV.  Nature shows in 1080i are a delightful thing to watch, particularly that BBC Planet Earth series.  It's friggin' hypnotic, to the point where I wished I had some pot while watching it last weekend.

Careful with that, you do not want to watch the land of ice episode under the influence, the struggle of that poor polar bear was too sad.  I actually cried.  The other episodes yes.  The huge flock of birds in Africa was one of the most stunning things I have ever seen on TV.

On topic, I love my Wii.  The amusement that my GF gets into her real tennis stance to play Wii tennis makes me smile every time I think about it.  I'm also of the age where Donkey Kong was one of the first games I played in the arcade, so having it from the VC is a joy for me as well.

[Yegolev]

My favorite thing about the Wii is how the left and right halves of the controller are connected by a lengthy cord and I can really get a  sprawl on.  That's worth about $50 to me.  I'm less a fan of the pointing that I thought I would be, mostly because it's not as accurate as I had been led to believe.

If Tetris is a game, so is fake bowling.

[schild]

My favorite thing about the Wii is how the left and right halves of the controller are connected by a lengthy cord and I can really get a  sprawl on.  That's worth about $50 to me.  I'm less a fan of the pointing that I thought I would be, mostly because it's not as accurate as I had been led to believe.

If Tetris is a game, so is fake bowling.

You tread on dangerous ground, Tetris launched a genre. Do not degrade Tetris.

[Yegolev]

I am not ashamed to say that I do not like Tetris the way everyone else seems to.  It was fun for half an hour in between sessions of Duke Nukem 3D.  I might as well play Breakout or Pong.  Launching genres is great and all, but time marches on.  YMMV or something.

Ask me in a few years how I feel about Fake Bowling and you might get a similar response.

[schild]

You've obviously never played 2 player competitive tetris.

[HaemishM]

So we are comparing clock cycle speeds between a Wii and a 360 and a PS3 now? What the fuck does that mean? They are all running different OS'es, with different graphics cards, audio, etc. so comparing clock speeds is MEANINGLESS. AMD's Athlons ran at clock speeds about 1 full Ghz lower than Intels before the dual-core processors, yet AMD's kicked Intel's ass on performance in that generation. It's MEANINGLESS. It means fuckall to the power of the console. It's Apples to Oranges, mate.

Stray, you keep talking about the PS3's fantastic AI capabilities, made possible by the Cell. Have you seen it in any of the games yet? Have any of the PS3 games broken new ground in AI? No? That's right, because that's not nearly so much about processing power as it is programmer talent. Half-Life 1 had as good or better AI than many of the FPS out now, and I ran that on a 200 Mhz AMD machine in 1997.

Raw power isn't all its cracked up to be. And if the raw power is really only used to pump HD textures, bump-mapping and lighting into the same game engines we're already used to, where is the innovation?

As for the Wii being a rip-off because the X-Box Core system is $299, huh? You get no hard drive with the Core (the Wii has 1 GB of internal storage). Doesn't it also lack wireless controllers? And no game? How is that a comparison to the Wii, because the graphics card and processor are faster in a meaningless comparison? Oh right, Wii Sports is not a game. You need a new dictionary then. It's a pack-in game, about on the level of the Duck Hunt game that was packed into NES systems for a while. And Microsoft had to take a loss to sell the Core at $299, how is that a good thing for the gaming industry, one of the big players taking a loss?

The only "ripoff" I feel from the Wii is not including a wired ethernet connection in the system. Other than that, it's all good.

[stray]

They're all part of the PPC family. Never before in the history of clockspeed comparisons between different platforms has there been a more valid reason to compare clockspeeds.

Lol to everything else.

[Yegolev]

You've obviously never played 2 player competitive tetris.

Obviously!

[Alkiera]

You've obviously never played 2 player competitive tetris.

Tetris is a puzzle, not a game.  2-player competitive tetris might be a game.  I've played the vs. mode of Dr. Mario, and I've done swordfighting in Puzzle Pirates, which amount to the same thing.

I have to agree with Yeg, tho.   As a single-player thing, it's interesting, but not really that great.

--
Alkiera

[Strazos]

Thirded.

[schild]

Tetris is a puzzle, not a game.

What?

[Margalis]

Most puzzle games really bore me, and Tetris is no exception. After five minutes of playing I know exactly what to expect and the gameplay has gotten old.

As far as awesome AI on the PS3 - potential is great but if nobody takes advantage of it it may as well not exist in the first place.

[schild]

Meh, with developers like Kojima, Ueda, and SEEDS, it'll get used.

[sigil]

Meh, with developers like Kojima, Ueda, and SEEDS, it'll get used.

Sure, in three or four development cycles.

2010 will be one hell of a year for ps3.

[Azazel]

Discovery HD will absolutely convert you to HDTV.  Nature shows in 1080i are a delightful thing to watch, particularly that BBC Planet Earth series.  It's friggin' hypnotic, to the point where I wished I had some pot while watching it last weekend.

We don't have that channel here unfortunately. For that matter, I'm not sure if anything is broadcast in HD here. I'll have to look into that.

As for the "it's not a game" argument. I think ignoring schild's retardedness is the way to go here. The "I don't like Wii" thing can be considered opinion, but the "Fake Bowling is not a game" thing is just him trolling to keep himself amused.

[stray]

Meh, with developers like Kojima, Ueda, and SEEDS, it'll get used.

Sure, in three or four development cycles.

2010 will be one hell of a year for ps3.

That isn't that far way really. In the meantime, they can still offer good AI in the 360 and PS3 with current techniques and tools. Even underutilized, I'll still be getting a better experience than my old XBox or PS2, or GC/Wii. Nothing wrong with that, in my book at least. I'll take any kind of improvements.



Also, in the meantime, I'll have to deal with underpowered visuals like this as well. It'll be hard, but I'll deal with it.

[schild]

Discovery HD will absolutely convert you to HDTV.  Nature shows in 1080i are a delightful thing to watch, particularly that BBC Planet Earth series.  It's friggin' hypnotic, to the point where I wished I had some pot while watching it last weekend.

We don't have that channel here unfortunately. For that matter, I'm not sure if anything is broadcast in HD here. I'll have to look into that.

As for the "it's not a game" argument. I think ignoring schild's retardedness is the way to go here. The "I don't like Wii" thing can be considered opinion, but the "Fake Bowling is not a game" thing is just him trolling to keep himself amused.

No, it's really not. I'm a fucking gamer and Nintendo is trying to keep me amused with parlor level shit. The Wii is practically built to say "Get off your ass and stop playing games."

I don't buy consoles for that.

[schild]

Meh, with developers like Kojima, Ueda, and SEEDS, it'll get used.

Sure, in three or four development cycles.

2010 will be one hell of a year for ps3.

At least it'll still be a viable console in 3 years...

[Margalis]

Hmm...a screenshot with no HUD or any other gameplay details taken from a highly contrived angle - very convincing.

I watched the trailer for the newest R&C and the in-game footage was about 2 seconds long.

I'm not going to say bullshit but I will say that screenshots provided by the studio can never be trusted. I remember how awesome Impossible Creatures looked - then it turned out the actual gameplay was way zoomed-out compared to the screens and looked entirely different.

Promotional materials can never be trusted. What is this, 1995? We know better. I never pay any attention to screens and movies unless they are taken by an independent site.

[stray]

People have seen it, and have said it looks even better in gameplay. And Imsomniac is trying to improve it at the moment at that (for 60fps, currently at 45).

Besides, if you look at the textures, they're good, but not extremely cutting edge. The colors and artwork go a long way.


[EDIT]

Just to add, Imsomniac has been pretty good as far not pulling the bullshot card. Here's a promo shot for Resistance (same engine as R&C btw, but without texture streaming):



Maybe a little AA goin' on there, but that's basically representative of the game. I know that level well.

It's not OMG OMG wow, but like I said, enough to hold me off for the time being. Enough to make me say, hey, I'd rather play a shooter on the PS3 than the PS2 or Wii. And with things like UE3 (whether that be 360, PC, or PS3), it's even more impressive.

[Trippy]

They're all part of the PPC family. Never before in the history of clockspeed comparisons between different platforms has there been a more valid reason to compare clockspeeds.

No. That's exactly like saying you can compare the performance between, say, the G4 and the G5 just by looking at their clock speeds.

[stray]

Except the Wii is still G3, and purely IBM made, as the others are (G4 was IBM/Moto).

I hear your point and all, but this isn't comparing Pentiums and MIPS. Comparing IBM chips should be valid, and either way you put it, the 360 and PS3 have monstrous advantages. There isn't any reason for Haemish to go on about this, like it's up for questioning.

[schild]

Well. They can be. They're all video game systems that play the exact same types of games. The numbers, honestly, irrelevant. We've seen real world examples. The shittiest launch titles for the 360 and PS3 look leaps and bounds better (in everything, from movement to building textures) than anything on the Wii. It's all better looking than anything WILL ever be on the Wii. It's just the reality of it. It's such a moot point that a comparison never needs to be made. All Nintendo has going for it - honestly, the only goddamn thing - is that Wiimote. Every other thing about the system is dogshit and I dare anyone to say otherwise. Zelda, using the 360 pad, on the 360 would have been 10x the game. It's the unfortunate reality. All the best Ninty games (short of Wario Ware) have absolutely zero advantage moving to the Wiimote. Nintendo has made themselves obsolete.

And yet, the consumer doesn't give a shit.

Edit: Removed horrible political joke at the end there. Apropos, but totally asshole.

[sigil]

And yet, the consumer doesn't give a shit.

Exactly.

Ultimately  the consumer's wants win out in the marketplace. Currently, the Wii fills a perceived need for a lot of people. For all the talk of a 360 and a wii  or a PS3 and a wii, there's the other, unmentioned combination of a PS2 and a wii. Even though it's older tech, it's fun and there's a good mix of games. You talk about the lack of depth in the Wii's library but if the wii is an adjunct console to the king of all game systems, it's not a painful issue at all. At the very least, it buys Nintendo enough time to get all the people who say "ooh, sales"and suddenly start developing shit for it.

For all the talk of cockblocks to game development, my initial response is, "Yeah, so?" Now I see where you're going with it, but  if my family is enjoying the current setup and libraries it's not a tangible loss. for all the stuff I'm missing out on with the current gen, it's not that interesting to me. I'm sure something wil turn up eventually, but there's no rush.

[Big Gulp]

for all the stuff I'm missing out on with the current gen, it's not that interesting to me. I'm sure something wil turn up eventually, but there's no rush.

I don't see how people can be so cavalier about online play, which the Wii almost completely lacks.  Really, the only reason it even has internet access is so they can sell you overpriced retro titles.

I'd say the 360 is the gold standard here, but the PS3 isn't to be dismissed, especially considering that their offering is free.  At any rate, once you've really dug into a system that embraces online I'd have a hard time playing a system that still treats it like a bastard step child.

[sigil]

The vast bulk of my experience with online play leads me to wish for the destruction of the human race.


The problem with playing with other people online is that you have to play with other people.

It's cool and all, but I don't want it. Some people do. No problem with that.

I believe that  Nintendo harbors similar views as mine. The market will decide if it's a mistake for them to do so.

I've also noted that Stray's stills aren't really doing anything for me. Yeah, they're pretty.  They just don't move me.

[stray]

They're not doing much in the way of crafting "offline" experiences either. The aforementioned technological hoo-ha mentioned above caters to richer, more immersive single player games. Don't want to play online on the 360 or PS3? In that case, one has a variety of other stuff for your tastes too. They offer both.

Nintendo, on the other hand, can't even provide freakin' voiceovers in Zelda games yet. And the music, while good, is betrayed by bad intrumentation. It's just a step above midi. I'll have to rely on a third party (again) to provide anything good in the way of this -- I know Nintendo isn't going to do it. It'll just be more party stuff and kitsch from them for awhile.

[stray]

I've also noted that Stray's stills aren't really doing anything for me. Yeah, they're pretty.  They just don't move me.

Here it is in motion then (if you can't run an HD clip, it can be found in smaller sizes at gametrailers.com...I'm in a rush at the moment, sorry).

http://www.myresistance.net/ig/RCFTrailer_HD.mov


Never played a Ratchet and Clank game before?

[sigil]

I've played the series. Not interested.

Also tried out Resistance. Just does nothing for me.

I'm not saying I'll never get a PS3. I just see no rush to go get one.

I'm also ok with a standard definition TV, so I already know I'm wired  differently from 3/4 of the people here.

[stray]

Hmm.. Not interested in Ratchet and Clank. That's too bad, I guess. I only posted it because it's about the closest thing I could think of to Nintendo's sensiblities in Sony's 2007 lineup. Figured you'd at least be open to it (or at least, transfer it's quality to a Nintendo game, if that matters).

Not sure how you couldn't be impressed. You're impressed with the Wii, and (I'm assuming, since you're at this site), you play MMO's -- The vanguards of all that is bad artistically, technically, and gameplay-wise in the video game world. Yet, you say you're not interested in a series that's done nothing but score perennial aces.

Those are good visuals for something only a year in release, done in one of the more favorable game worlds of recent time -- They are good for something that displays the worth of a system until it's real power get's utilized further down the road. Which is the point of my original post. You don't have to say "Wow" or anything, but damn, you don't have to say "Meh" either.

[Yegolev]

Comparing IBM chips should be valid,

It's not, though.  You can't say "IBM chips" and mean it like you do when you say "Intel chips".  The differences in the Power4 and Power5 chips alone are large even when you discount the fact that the P5 is dual-core.  Prices will also bear this out without needing a technical degree since the Power4 chips are still much more expensive than the Power5, so something is different.  Could be due to the underlying architecture but that still requires a shift in processor architecture (as far as I know).  So a "single" P5 is better than four P4 at the same speed, depening on code and alignment of the planets; in any case, if you take anything away from my pointless ramble, let it be that clock speed for IBM machines is meaningless when comparing different CPU.  Not being tied down to a legacy architecture seems to help IBM produce lots of wacky shit... like the Cell.

[sigil]

Hmm.. Not interested in Ratchet and Clank. That's too bad, I guess. I only posted it because it's about the closest thing I could think of to Nintendo's sensiblities in Sony's 2007 lineup. Figured you'd at least be open to it (or at least, transfer it's quality to a Nintendo game, if that matters).

Not sure how you couldn't be impressed. You're impressed with the Wii, and (I'm assuming, since you're at this site), you play MMO's -- The vanguards of all that is bad artistically, technically, and gameplay-wise in the video game world. Yet, you say you're not interested in a series that's done nothing but score perennial aces.

Here's the thing. It's not that simple.

Loved God of War.I'll get the sequel sometime in the near future.  I don't need a God of War in  HD w/ six channel sound to make it a better experience for me. it is what it is. Something in the same vein is more of the same. That doesn't interest me. I don't buy games for the shiny, I buy because they are genuinely interesting to me. As such, I don't buy a whole lot of games, but i love every game in my library. There will come a time when something is  made for the PS3 in a way that interests me, or I might just but it as a cheap blu-ray player. I'm just not there yet.

With the wii, I will play wiiplay or wiisports with my son. or another game.  It's about the family interaction. It's replaced the TV in to large extent in our household. The battles we have are epic. I have never come close to the amount of enjoyment with any game system that I have with the Wii. That's the shift, and it's the reason some people just don't care for the wii, and others can't stop talking about it. You talk about kitsch and party games as being substandard, but there's a definite market there that is just beginning to be tapped in a way it hadn't previously .


As an example: Wiiplay alone is meh. Wiiplay with partners is good fun. Wiiplay with the family in  a no holds barred match  is splendid.

[stray]

Comparing IBM chips should be valid,

It's not, though.  You can't say "IBM chips" and mean it like you do when you say "Intel chips".  The differences in the Power4 and Power5 chips alone are large even when you discount the fact that the P5 is dual-core.  Prices will also bear this out without needing a technical degree since the Power4 chips are still much more expensive than the Power5, so something is different.  Could be due to the underlying architecture but that still requires a shift in processor architecture (as far as I know).  So a "single" P5 is better than four P4 at the same speed, depening on code and alignment of the planets; in any case, if you take anything away from my pointless ramble, let it be that clock speed for IBM machines is meaningless when comparing different CPU.  Not being tied down to a legacy architecture seems to help IBM produce lots of wacky shit... like the Cell.

I know you and Trippy are well meaning and all, and maybe since you surround your stuff with this kind of info, it can't be helped.

But you're taking it too far.

Both the Xenon and CBE have multiple, more or less (don't get too wound on up on this), specialized, kinda/sorta Power5 cores running at 3.2Ghz. The CBE could be said to only have one, while the SPE's are another thing entirely, but you get the point. Both chips were designed with IBM's Power5 research and tools in mind.

The Wii's CPU (Broadway) is PPC750 based, running under 800Mhz. It's not a G4, it's a G3. The G4's had more Motorola designs involved with them, and are just an anomaly in general -- which is one of the reasons why Nintendo didn't go with it (supposedly, it would break a lot of code Nintendo depended on). We don't know a lot about Broadway specifics other than that, but nonetheless, the core architecture is still the same design that was running on first generation iMacs way back when. It's functionally equivalent to a Pentium 3. It is fucking old school.

I don't care how much to the nth degree one can exactly measure the Mhz differences between these things, the point was that multiple cores clocking at triple the speeds, in chip designs that are years ahead of it, made by the same manufactuer no less (and all the lessons they've learned over the years, and can directly apply to new designs) are worlds better than a G3 no matter which you put it. Better. Better in extreme Mountain Dew ways.

And the original point was : Microsoft is offering this hardware in a SKU that's priced at $299. I don't care about the other models, or whatever shit Haemish would like to derail this towards. I don't give a fuck whether he wants the core or not. Or that it doesn't have a hard drive (as if it'd matter anyways, seeing as he's fine without one on the Wii). The only point is that the core system has an Xenon processor included in it, and that it plays games.

Now, seeing that Microsoft is pricing something like that for $299, I raise the issue of Nintendo selling a VASTLY inferior system for only $50 less -- How could one piss and moan SO FUCKING MUCH about console prices when Nintendo is bending them over like that? It's hypocrisy. Even counting out the 360's graphics chip (which is a whole other can of worms), a Wii should still be cheaper than just $50 less.

...

Personally, I don't mind the Wii's pricing that much. I paid for it. The difference is, I don't bitch about everything else. I'm only calling some of you out on this because you do.

[stray]

It's about the family interaction.

Fair enough, man. Simply having fun with your kid is more delightful to hear than some of the pisspoor attacks that get dropped around here. I have no argument with you.