Wii Q&A Thread

[schild]

The Wii isn't expanding the market. It's just competing with board games.

IT'S JUST LIKE MOTHERFUCKING WOW! THOSE ARE BLIZZARD CUSTOMERS, NOT MMOG CUSTOMERS. DAMN.

[Yoru]

The Wii isn't expanding the market. It's just competing with board games.

... The fuck?

Do you mean by replacing small-group mass-market interactive entertainment? I'm sure Parker Brothers and Mattel are quaking in their boots with their $20 games competing against a $250 + $30/game + $ohgod/controller Ninty package. And Nintendo sure as hell isn't going after the lunches of Fantasy Flight, Rio Grande or Days of Wonder.

The day a Wii game wins Spiel des Jahres, I'll buy you a bottle of good whisky.

[schild]

I'm not talking about niche board games. I'm talking about family time with checkers, life, and shit. Pretty soon it's gonna be family time with Mario Party. Trivial Pursuit will be a Wii title. It'll be an evolution thing. Just watch.

I'm not wrong. I'm just not right. Yet.

No one has proven me wrong with my Blizzard guesstimation either.

[stray]

Hehe. Yoru was ready to throw down for a sec. 

Just wait until something (somehow....) is perceived to be a threat to LARP :-D

[Yoru]

I'm not talking about niche board games. I'm talking about family time with checkers, life, and shit. Pretty soon it's gonna be family time with Mario Party. Trivial Pursuit will be a Wii title. It'll be an evolution thing. Just watch.

Do you mean by replacing small-group mass-market interactive entertainment?

Could it? Yeah, sure, maybe - definitely supplementing if not supplanting. WiiSports is making those inroads. However, it's going to depend largely on Nintendo pushing hard on making games that are fun and, most importantly, approachable by anyone. WiiSports is dirt-easy to approach (durr how do I swing tennis racket?) and doesn't look like complete kiddie garbage.

Also, the Wii has a hard limit of 4 players, whereas most family-targeted board games scale to 6-8, suitable for an extended family gathering.

I'm not wrong. I'm just not right. Yet.

Hehe. Yoru was ready to throw down for a sec. 

Just wait until something (somehow....) is perceived to be a threat to LARP :-D

Not living that down, I guess. :)

[stray]

Aww man, don't take it the wrong way. It's cool -- quirky -- but cool 


But yeh, you're not going to live it down. Just fly the freak flag, I say.

[Azazel]

I'm not wrong. I'm just not right. Yet.

No one has proven me wrong with my Blizzard guesstimation either.

Stating something, and then claiming to have not been disproven is a disingenious argument to make at best, and completely fucking retarded at worst. Like really, low-end internet arguing.

Idiot Speculation FTW!

[stray]

Well, it is going to be a good party console. Even it's strongest defenders resort to that.

It's the strongest niche of the Wii, if anything. Schild's just saying he isn't right "yet" because certain games haven't been outright announced for it -- simply because the console is still in it's infancy stage.

I don't see why it's so retarded.

[schild]

It's retarded because no one is willing to admit that I'm right this early.

But I am right. This isn't a gamer's console. It's just that simple.

Edit: Hell, if NISA and Atlus turned around tomorrow and announced they were continuing their titles on the Wii, I'd still think of it as a kiddy piece of shit and would be pissed that NISA didn't go for hi-res sprites on the 360 or PS3 and Atlus didn't go balls out with insane character design and setting. Real games simply don't belong on the Wii. Like it or not, advancement of visuals is a necessary evil for many of the core game types (RPG, Action, Adventure, Fighting, Sports), as it's really one of the easier ways in which the genres can improve. Yes, I loved the PS2. Yes, it was the weakest console last generation. Yes, it also had the most gorgeous games (SotC/ICO, Okami > Windwaker, Digital Devil Saga, FFXII, etc). Fortunately, it wasn't SO MUCH weaker than the other consoles. The worst 360 and PS3 games will look 10x better than anything on the Wii. That's a problem. And for some reason, Nintendo and 3rd Parties alike think because the graphics are simple, the gameplay needs to be simply. Party games and such have come out of that mentality.

Hence, my comparison to the board games industry.

I don't think any company besides Nintendo has the balls to put their major titles exclusive to their system in any main storyline sort of way. Square has a shitty DQ offshoot and FF: Crystal Chronicles 2 (the party game of the FF world - oh, and Itadaki St, which went to the DS) are cop-outs. Umbrella Chronicles, while cool, might as well be a wink-wink nudge nudge joke. The RE4 WiiMake? Lolz. Let's not forget total shit ports from UBISoft and others - I mean, what's the point? Even Square realized DQIX would be more respectable on the DS (and I agree, completely).

While the control scheme and peripheral system will make great strides, I fully believe that this system - in terms of quality - is doomed to mediocrity and will be nothing more than a footnote in console history.

[Triforcer]

Given your Geldon-like prophetic abilities in regards to WoW circa three years ago, you'll forgive us if we are still somewhat skeptical about this little op-ed 

[Kageru]

They have or will have their fair share of casual or party games (and may even include similar control schemes as the Wii to boot -- at least the PS3 could, technically). And then they'll have the other big stuff too. They'll have their foot in both type of gaming markets -- and I don't really see how the Wii could be such a killer in the face of that (unless gaming as we know it changes overnight or something -- I guess it wasn't codenamed the Revolution for nothing  ).

No... it couldn't. It's too late for the PS3 to retrofit a wii control scheme because it won't be standard, they can't depend on people having it.

And the markets are very different, which determines which games will sell in which markets. The market that is willing to drop 1000$ australian bucks on a game console is not composed of casual / social gamers. Although the 360 is somewhere in between, being much more approachable.

[Kageru]

I'm not actually sure there is a 4 player limit on the wii. There is at least one 5 player game (using a wavebird controller) so I see no reason to assume that 8 players is impossible. Mind you, since the wii has limited resolution I'm not sure you could usefully use 8 players.

"real games", what a joke. As if there is a minimum spec that determines if a game is "real". Maybe a Schild advisory sticker so people don't accidentally enjoy a game without sufficient shiny.

[stray]

They have or will have their fair share of casual or party games (and may even include similar control schemes as the Wii to boot -- at least the PS3 could, technically). And then they'll have the other big stuff too. They'll have their foot in both type of gaming markets -- and I don't really see how the Wii could be such a killer in the face of that (unless gaming as we know it changes overnight or something -- I guess it wasn't codenamed the Revolution for nothing  ).

No... it couldn't. It's too late for the PS3 to retrofit a wii control scheme because it won't be standard, they can't depend on people having it.

And the markets are very different, which determines which games will sell in which markets. The market that is willing to drop 1000$ australian bucks on a game console is not composed of casual / social gamers. Although the 360 is somewhere in between, being much more approachable.

I'm not talking about retrofitting an exact Wii control scheme. That would be unnecessary. I'm just saying that they already have their own form of motion sensing implemented. It does the job, and there are a variety of ways one could be creative with it just by changing the casing/ergonomics alone (while at the same time maintaining the Playstation's native controls).

And I'm definitely not talking about anything so drastic that it would have to be a "standard" feature on the system. Options are what works. And having optional forms of interactivity is what Sony already does anyways (analog, kb/m, guns, waggle, EyeToy, etc..). It would just be one option among many. Not something that has to be shoehorned into every game.

[naum]

Electronic Arts Plays Catch-Up After Shrug-Off of Wii
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=amWmy6_JG16U&refer=home

Video-game designer Nick Earl spent eight months holed up with his development team rushing to adapt ``The Godfather'' for Nintendo Co.'s Wii.

The reason for the long hours: Earl's employer, Electronic Arts Inc., like some of its competitors, underestimated demand for the Wii, whose motion-activated wand lets players wield a virtual sword, mimic real golf swings or strangle a victim. Instead, game makers put most of their resources into Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3, which was released two days earlier in November with a more conventional hand controller.

Now, publishers are scrambling to get titles to the 3.56 million U.S. and Japanese Wii owners who have made the machine the top-selling game console this year.

``Those companies are backtracking,'' said Anthony Gikas, an analyst at Piper Jaffray & Co. in Minneapolis. ``They're going to need to get their best-branded product on that platform. That will take a good nine to 12 months.''

A shortage of Wii games contributed to a 25 percent drop in sales in February from a year earlier at Redwood City, California-based Electronic Arts, the world's largest video-game publisher, said Todd Greenwald, an analyst at Nollenberger Capital Partners in San Francisco. Industry sales in February rose 28 percent.

Shares of Electronic Arts have risen 2.3 percent this year, the smallest gain among the three biggest publishers.

U.S. and Japanese sales of Wii players totaled 1.47 million in January and February, said market researchers NPD Group Inc. and Enterbrain. PlayStation 3 tallied 604,331, while stores sold 584,329 of Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360 consoles. Wii is also leading in Europe, said London-based researcher Screen Digest.

Wii games, all produced by Kyoto, Japan-based Nintendo, took three of the top 10 sales spots in the U.S. in February, said NPD, based in Port Washington, New York. Not a single U.S. publisher had a Wii game in the top 20 in February.

Nintendo's lead will widen, pressuring companies even more. Researcher IDC predicts Nintendo will ship 16.1 million players this year, outpacing Microsoft's 9.87 million Xbox 360s and Sony's 9.1 million PlayStation 3s. Wii game sales will total $2.2 billion, trailing only Xbox 360, said IDC, based in Framingham, Massachusetts.

[Triforcer]

Nonsense.  All of that marketing research done by companies that research markets for a living is a mere illusion, the Wii is doomed to fail.

On the plus side, doomsaying parties can always fall to the second line of WoW-trolling defense:  "It may be awesomely popular, but it is fundamentally holding back the genre because of X and therefore still bad in the historic sense". 

[schild]

Well, there's no question that WoW has stagnated innovation in the MMOG industry.

And I'm not saying the Wii will do that. I'm not even dooming the machine. I'm merely saying that it's not competing with the gaming industry at this point. I don't think the 360 AND the PS3 have anything to worry about. Especially since the Wii has a shelf-life of, oh, 3 years. MAYBE. Also, again, not really competing with them. I don't see Microsoft or the PS3 really jumping all over the mini-game shallow bullshit market.

[Margalis]

I like the argument that products that reach a core audience and also reach out to a much broader audience are not expanding the market. Makes perfect sense to me.

[schild]

It's reaching the core audience? Really? The PS2 is at around 130M units sold afaik. When the Wii breaks that, we'll talk about expansion. By the way. The likelihood of it breaking that is less than 1% with the title support it has.

[Yegolev]

Tell me more of strangling people on the Wii.

[stray]

What's meant by core audience anyways? Core Nintendo audience, for sure. Core general gamer audience, no. That's the 360's and PS3's thing -- that is, if past gaming history and trends are any indication. Nintendo, otoh, is barely even trying to speak to that larger audience. In fact, I think the whole point of Nintendo right now is to blow it off.

[Velorath]

I find it amusing that both of the guys who are arguing that the Wii isn't reaching the core gamer audience each own a Wii.

[stray]

Err...Umm... I have it, but it isn't reaching me.



Yeah, that's a pretty bad copout, I know.

[schild]

I own one because I own every console. I have 2 Jaguars and  Jaguar CD.

And guess what, it had some good games on it. The Wii will too.

Both are pieces of shit.

[squirrel]

I was super hot to get a Wii after spending New Years Day playing tennis and bowling recovering from the night before at a buddy's. But I've played it a lot at the same friends place over the last few months and now I'm not sure I need one. Kinda bored of Wii sports, not willing to drop $250 (CDN) for a Zelda in lowdef and don't see anything else I'm interested in. My 360 satisfies all my HiDef next gen needs and the PS2 still has so many great titles shipping on it I can ignore the lower tech.

Wii needs a killer game, stat. IMO.

<jab>PS3 needs that, and a lower price point, stat. </jab>

[stray]

Wii needs a killer game, stat. IMO.

<jab>PS3 needs that, and a lower price point, stat. </jab>

No killer PS3 games until fall at best.
...

Well, it gets a sloppy second killer title in NG Sigma soon. Heh. Then Lair soon after. That isn't close to the 360's summer though: Forza 2, Culdcept, Bioshock, Blue Dragon, and Mass Effect. There's little known about any of those (except Blue Dragon), but they could all very well end up being awesome. At least for some people.

The Wii's big summer titles are Super Smash Bros Brawl, Pokemon Battle Revolution, and another Mario Party ([edit] Gamestop wants to list Metroid Prime 3 for the summer, but I think that's bullshit). And from Capcom, RE4 Redux. All of those will sell like fucking crazy. And then the Wii be out of stock for another 6 months.


The PS3's fall starts looking better than the 360's summer: MGS4, R&C Future, Little Big World, Home, Warhawk, Tekken 6, Heavenly Sword, Time Crisis, Uncharted, possibly Monster Hunter 3, and some curiosities like Singstar and Eye of Judgement.

And on a sidenote: I hope not all of those are even released during fall. I couldn't keep up. Especially when you factor in all of the cross platform stuff planned around the same time: DMC4, GTA4, Assassin's Creed, Rockband, Bladestorm, Fatal Inertia.

[schild]

Virtua Fighter 5 is awesome.

Pokemon Battle Revolution will be dick. They need to quit fucking around and release an actual Pokemon RPG for home consoles.

SSBB probably won't make it's release date.

All the 360 stuff will probably make their dates. Cept maybe Blue Dragon and Culdcept.

MSG for might come out on the last day of Fall. not likely though. Virtua Fighter 5 > Tekken. Also the 360 Virtua Fighter comes out this summer. That'll be bigger than Virtua Fighter 5 PS3.

What Time Crisis game are you talking about? Monster Hunter 3 won't make it. Mostly because it hasn't been formally announced. The Game Republic Monster Kingdom PS3 game might make it out at the tail end of the year.

Don't forget the PS2! Grim Grimoire, Persona 3, Odin Sphere, Red Star, Soul Nomad, and Atelier Iris 3. Arguably, the best game releases of the year. Cept for maybe Culdcept.

Of course, I'm talking about gamers games.

Also, you forgot a tiny title coming out this Fall that will make everything else on the map be forgotten by everyone except me, you and Yegolev: Halo 3. Also known as The "I Win Christmas" button. Lost Odyssey will be out the last few weeks of the year or first few months of 08. Oh, and I forgot to mention Trusty Bell 360 as well.

[stray]

Time Crisis 4. Various fall dates are floating around. Could be just nothing (also, it doesn't even come to arcades until summer, on modified PS2 hardware, I think).


Damn, I forgot about that Halo thing. Almost seems like a close fight when you mentally block it off. 

[EDIT]

Battle Revolution may be dick, but it will still be a killer title.

[schild]

Pokemon side-projects don't sell nearly as well as you think.

[Velorath]

The PS3's fall starts looking better than the 360's summer: MGS4, R&C Future, Little Big World, Home, Warhawk, Tekken 6, Heavenly Sword, Time Crisis, Uncharted, possibly Monster Hunter 3, and some curiosities like Singstar and Eye of Judgement.

Tekken 6 might not get released this year, and Little Big Planet from what I've read some places is getting a full featured demo version in the Fall with the full game coming out in early '08.

[stray]

That "full game" version is just going to be a disc with a collection of user created levels or something. Or at least, that's what I heard the plan is. The demo version is not really a demo -- it's the normal version of the game. I think you still have to pay for it, like any other PSN title.

[squirrel]

And on a sidenote: I hope not all of those are even released during fall. I couldn't keep up. Especially when you factor in all of the cross platform stuff planned around the same time: DMC4, GTA4, Assassin's Creed, Rockband, Bladestorm, Fatal Inertia.

Agreed. I'm planning on a PS3 around Nov. primarily for Bluray and a couple of the exclusives (already have the HDDVD for 360 which should hold me through the summer.) But damn, Forza2, Mass Effect, Bioshock, MSG4, Assassin's Creed...I still haven't finished Crackdown, RB6LV, God of War 2 and have a backlog of titles that are still shrink wrapped - Viva Pinata, Dead Rising...I need a new job with lots of free time.

[WindupAtheist]

[Trippy]

Would've been funnier for those "in the know" if he was using the Zelda shield and sword attachments but that was still funny.

[stray]

Funny toon, but it's not as simple as just complaining about hardware stats. The hardware choice is indicative of a greater thing, and it's that that I ultimately have a problem with. Which is basically Nintendo's emphasis on raw gameplay. They're stuck in the design philosophy that thinks that games are just games. They don't care to emphasize the cinematic aspects that games can offer (or whatever meta/side aspect that compliments gameplay). Even their deepest RPG's (of which there are none really) fail at this. They're basically no different than the people who write flash games, just in a more glorified way.

This is nothing new, of course --- Nintendo has always been about having a strong emphasis on "pure gameplay". But this time around, they've really shown their true colors  -- Not providing current hardware just tells me that they don't give a fuck about where the rest of the game industry was heading at all. They'd rather just make simple games.

...

Don't mistake me though. I DO like gameplay. Things are still capable of winning me over on that alone. It's just that this isn't an either/or situation. I can have gameplay, and I can have the other stuff too. Further, I like to see the state of gaming to keep on improving and evolving in those other areas -- to make the experiences all the more richer. I don't want these things to just be games -- I want to them to reach the state where they can compete with films, books, wet dreams, and what have you.

That's where hardware comes in --- and I happen to think that more power for AI, physics, graphics, sound, storage, online features, etc., etc.., are a better step in this continuing evolution of games (however ho hum "hardware power" may appear to be) than waving my hands at a TV screen. The Wiimote isn't much of an evolution when everything else about the system is yesterday's corn.

[stray]

Har.

In other news, Jaffe disagrees with me (from part 2 of that recent GameTrailer interview).

When asked what he would change about the PlayStation 3, he responded, "I probably would have taken the Blu-ray out and sold it for less money."

[...]

Earlier on in part two of the Bonus Round, Jaffe once again commented on his love for smaller downloadable games, such as Calling All Cars. Echoing sentiments he expressed to GameDaily BIZ during a GDC interview, Jaffe commented, "I want to do games that take 10-13 months; I want to do games that aren't always story-driven, that are more gameplay-driven."

[...]

And in typical outspoken Jaffe fashion, he remarked that big games aren't necessarily "better" than smaller ones and added regarding the drive to constantly create big blockbusters, "It's like, 'F**k you capitalist society that says all I need to do is work and contribute to the bottom line. F**k you up your a**.' I want a life."

Grrrr. More GoW plz. Some goofy 100mb PSN title isn't an alternative.

We'll pay. You benefit from that capalist society.


Seriously, what a whiner. He finally makes one story based title (while others have made dozens -- much larger than his at that), it flies through the roof (a dream come true if anything), and now he's unhappy about it.

[edit] He should be fired and condemned to make cell phone games.