Ownership, if not for EULAs

[tkinnun0]

EULAs are boring, nobody wants to read them, so let's pretend they don't exist. So, what is morally right:

1. Blizzard banning you for making yourself able to solo an instanced raid dungeon in WoW.
2. Valve banning you from Steam for making your gun more powerful in Half-life 2.
3. Firaxis permanently uninstalling Civilization IV from your computer for adding more money to your save file.

Where would you draw the line?

[WindupAtheist]

[Driakos]

Where would you draw the line?

Don't cheat in competitive multiplayer games?

[damijin]

You draw the line at the ban.

Cheating up to and around the edge of the ban is perfectly acceptable, if it wasn't, you'd be banned for it.

[lamaros]

[Strazos]

Do you have any idea how long I've been waiting to use that thing?

[Samwise]

In a perfect world, you'd draw the line using some sort of document drafted by the publisher that outlined what constituted acceptable use of the software and what would happen if you violated it.  If you didn't like the terms, you could just return the software unused and get your money back.  That way nobody would have to have stupid arguments about where the line was, because it would be clearly defined and everybody would know where it was going in.  If you thought somebody broke the agreed-upon rules, you could take them to court.

Oh wait, that's called a EULA.  Never mind.

[hal]

You read the document. if you don't agree you don't play. Punk.

[SnakeCharmer]

This is not going to go well.  At all.







And am I the only one that noticed just how fucking toothpick skinny the Hoff is in that picture?  Gary Colemans legs are just as big as his.

Jesus, man.  Eat a cheeseburger or 100.

[sinij]

You cheat in a single player game- and its covered under 'don't ask don't tell' policy
You cheat in a competitive multiplayer game- you are affecting other, unwilling, players and deserve ban.

Also there is no such thing as morality, there are only actions and consequences.

[Venkman]

1. Blizzard banning you for making yourself able to solo an instanced raid dungeon in WoW.
You're cheating. You can do this until caught.

2. Valve banning you from Steam for making your gun more powerful in Half-life 2.
You're cheating. You can do this until caught.

3. Firaxis permanently uninstalling Civilization IV from your computer for adding more money to your save file.
You're cheating. You can do this until caught.


It's actually very intuitive. You know you're doing something that was not intended. Ignorance is not really a valid argument in these cases. You didn't accidentally make your gun more powerful nor accidentally find, decrypt and modify your Civ IV save file. Those were intentional acts of advantage seeking. ...

[damijin]

You read the document. if you don't agree you don't play. Punk.

This is a foolish and unrealistic notion.

Cheating is ingrained in our brains, from "beating the test" tips (as opposed to "learning the subject" tips) at school. straight up through built in cheat codes in our single player games, to defiance of the rules of the road by our police forces, and defiance of the rules of war by our leaders. Rules exist as flexible boundaries that are intended to be pushed against and tested. Or, at least, that's what the real world has taught us.

Rules are created in a way that rewards anyone who can break them and get away with it, and being that our defenders of the EULA are only human, someone will always get away with it. Hence, so long as humans are human, and rule breaking continues to be rewarded, people WILL ignore the EULA, and people WILL play anyway.

Now that that's been established. What do we do to fight the inevitable? It's not futile to try and reduce cheating, just silly to think that cheaters will obey a bunch of boring words with "PLAY NOW" and "QUIT THIS GAME YOU JUST PAID FOR" buttons under them.

lawl this thread is gay, amirite?

[Merusk]

So what.. you thought it was just the wow collective that thought your 'friends' were asshats, and somehow the rest of the masses at F13 would read this 'what if' thread and validate your views? 

lawlz.

[Signe]

No one should care what I do in single player games as long as I'm not sharing it with the rest of the world.  If they do, they're just creepy.

[Margalis]

I played a game of Madden once where I didn't throw a single pass. I handed off to Priest Holmes on every play for the whole game.

I knew I was doing something that wouldn't work in real football, but I did it anyway. Then EA came to my house and hit my gamecube with a shovel, breaking it into pieces.

So the moral of the story is, it is 100% clear what the developers intend because we are all clairvoyant.

---

In all seriousness, Signe is right. Single player game = who cares. I can cheat at Madden single-player or just masturbate with it, who gives a shit?

[LC]

1. Blizzard banning you for making yourself able to solo an instanced raid dungeon in WoW.
Already banned for this one.
2. Valve banning you from Steam for making your gun more powerful in Half-life 2.
VAC2 is pretty weak. I have never been banned from steam.
3. Firaxis permanently uninstalling Civilization IV from your computer for adding more money to your save file.
I hate RTS games.

I would only draw the line at hacking accounts and servers.

[WindupAtheist]

3. Firaxis permanently uninstalling Civilization IV from your computer for adding more money to your save file.
I hate RTS games.

I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Margalis]

No, I'm pretty sure he meant RTS.

Really Tedious Stategy

[Endie]

Terra Nova is over there.

[Sky]

Single player: cheat away.
Multiplayer: don't be a fucking douchebag.

It's pretty simple.

[Venkman]

So what.. you thought it was just the wow collective that thought your 'friends' were asshats, and somehow the rest of the masses at F13 would read this 'what if' thread and validate your views? 

lawlz.

Oh so there's a history to this thread?

[Valmorian]

Where would you draw the line?

Nobody cares if you cheat at Solitaire, but they do care if you cheat at poker.  Can YOU figure out the difference?

[Endie]

So what.. you thought it was just the wow collective that thought your 'friends' were asshats, and somehow the rest of the masses at F13 would read this 'what if' thread and validate your views? 

lawlz.

Oh so there's a history to this thread?

Oh yes:

...Blizzard is not the sole owner of all aspects of WoW.

...followed by...

Huh?

[sinij]

I cheated in this thread, considering that this thread is entirely pointless, does it make me a bad person?

[sinij]

I cheated in this thread, considering that this thread is entirely pointless, does it make me a bad person?

[Miasma]

Exploiting a dupe bug, very nice.

[Sky]

I...bad person

H4X0rZ

[WindupAtheist]

Ew, yeah, what the fuck is wrong with the Hoff's legs?

[Venkman]

So what.. you thought it was just the wow collective that thought your 'friends' were asshats, and somehow the rest of the masses at F13 would read this 'what if' thread and validate your views? 

lawlz.

Oh so there's a history to this thread?

Oh yes:

...Blizzard is not the sole owner of all aspects of WoW.

...followed by...

Huh?

But Blizzard isn't the sole owner of all aspects of WoW.

At the same time, that has nothing to do with what tkinnun0 asked in the first post. I just thought he was either being provocatively niave or sociopathic :)

[geldonyetich]

Single player: cheat away.
Multiplayer: don't be a fucking douchebag.

It's pretty simple.

Yes, and yet, some people simply cannot get it.

[tkinnun0]

Single player: cheat away.
Multiplayer: don't be a fucking douchebag.

It's pretty simple.

Here's a bold prediction: in the future, adding multiplayer will not be a technical problem, so most every game will have it.

[lamaros]

Single player: cheat away.
Multiplayer: don't be a fucking douchebag.

It's pretty simple.

Here's a bold prediction: in the future, adding multiplayer will not be a technical problem, so most every game will have it.

Do you engage with society often?

[Venkman]

Heh. Welcome to 2000.

[Merusk]

At the same time, that has nothing to do with what tkinnun0 asked in the first post. I just thought he was either being provocatively niave or sociopathic :)

Yeah, you're right.  The title and scenarios outlined have NOTHING to do with that tread at all.  He didn't bring up "Blizzard doesn't own everything in WoW!" as a counter-argument to his friends getting banned in a manner similar to scenario #1 at all!! How silly of me, ha ha.  I have to go kill a cat now.

[Venkman]

Oh, hey, all I've got to go on is the Cliffs Notes Endie provided about the history behind this. His questions have a definite 'this happened to a, err, "buddy" of mine once, yea, that's it' ring to them. I just don't know which of these eleventybillion threads that conversation actually took place in.