f13.net forums - Skip Content Legally! Steal Raid-Id's!

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July 20, 2025, 02:15:49 PM

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Why use hacks to bypass AQ40 content when it is perfectly legal to just "steal" another guilds raid-id and use it for your own guilds benefit? And guess what? It is PERFECTLY legal to do so! It does not matter if the guild you "steal" from can or cannot complete that instance, its PERFECTLY legal to take it from them and do it yourself. Heck, you can even wipe the guild that you "steal" the raid-id's from so that your guild can do it when time is beneficial to you. You can do all of this even WITHOUT asking the other guild for permission!

So why is this allowed and perfectly OK with server GM's? Apparently to Blizzard, there is no such thing as "stealing" another guilds raid-id. If another guild happens to get your BWL, AQ40, or even Naxx id it is because you "gave" it to them. They do not believe that it is possible for a guild to "steal" the raid-id from another.

Well guess what? There are ways to do so and as long as this is legal, every guild on every server should use this to their advantage. Why clear up to Nef when you can just take another guilds instance that has it already cleared? Why wall hack and go through C'thun trash when you can just take it from a guild that has already done it for you?

Now you are wondering, well Itsy, how does my guild get into this fantastic time saving and legal offer? Well Bob, these are the many ways that you too can enjoy saving your guild loads of time on trash mobs!

1) The easiest method is to put moles into guilds that you want to "borrow" raid-id's from. The mole joins a raid (willingly or through auto-invite) and voilah! You now have a perfectly nice and legal raid-id for your guild to use at your own pleasure.

2) Do a /who GuildIWantToStealFrom and find out what members are in the instance you want to "borrow" from. When those members are finished with the instance, you now have the chance to "borrow" this guilds raid id! Stand by the instance you want to "borrow" the raid-id from. Start inviting people that were in the raid to your party. If one declines, no worries, there are 39 other more that might join your party! So keep trying :) Eventually someone will join your party and when this happens quickly convert the party into a raid, make the person you invited into raid leader, then just ZONE IN! Voilah! A new raid-id for you to use that will save you hours of time each week!

3) If you want to "borrow" another guilds raid-id, another efficient and covert way are to run pug groups. Your chances of getting a raid-id increase with the size of the pug. So MC pugs are a great way to pick and choose ids from different guilds. But it doesn’t have to be MC as any pug group would work. Once you have the guy you want to "borrow" from, give him leader, zone into the instance you want, and once again be excited over the new raid-id you have just gained!

4) Another easy way is to abuse the kindness of people. You can easily get a BWL id by asking a person from the guild you want to "borrow" if its ok for them to use their BWL id to make flasks for their guild. Or ask someone if it’s ok for them to "borrow" their raid-id so that they can turn in their Armaments in AQ40. You’ll be surprised how many nice people (suckers) there are that will fall for this every time!

---END SARCASM---

You will wonder if any of this is true, well sadly it is all true and I will prove it to you with the screenshots I have attached. Screenshots with server GM's saying that this is legal and nothing can be done about it.

You will wonder how I know all of this. Once again sadly, we were recently forced to deal with a situation against a guild with a horrible reputation, Decadence, which tried to do this to our guild and our AQ40 id. They have also done this to other guilds that are able to clear AQ40 and forcefully try to wipe guilds on C'thun attempts so that they can do it on their own time.

I honestly do not see a difference between Decadence and the guild that was recently banned for skipping AQ40 content. As a matter of fact, I find the methods used by Decadence to be viler as it infringes upon extreme harassment and affects people outside their own guild.

The reason we were able to stop Decadence from taking our C'thun kill because someone kind in their guild gave us a warning. When we foiled them from killing C'thun, they even threatened us over General Chat that they will steal our ID again and wipe us while we did the instance on the following week. Apparently this is still not grounds for harassment to the GM's.

Here are some screenshots I took from that night. Just a heads up, these screenshots are unedited and contain foul language.

This screenshot shows me ready and waiting for Decadence in front of C'thun.
http://runehammer.nrgservers.net/id/1.jpg

This screenshot is after we wiped them trying C'thun. They were most certainly upset and you can see a few people belittling, threatening and telling us that they will "GET US" next week.
http://runehammer.nrgservers.net/id/2.jpg

And finally this is a screenshot of the GM speaking to me telling me it’s OK to do what Decadence did to us. However, he did not like the idea of me posting this thread in the forums.
http://runehammer.nrgservers.net/id/3.jpg

I hope the people at Blizzard put in some due diligence on this matter as there is now way of stopping it. Blizzard, if you would like more proof do contact me as I have a ton more.

( from deleted thread - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=44956398&sid=1 )

Rather than fix this when people were using it with alts to run multiple MC instances in a single week, Blizzard hacked in a fix by changing raids instances to reset at a fixed time. So that worked around that particular use of the exploit, but not the exploit itself. Now that its being used belligerently (on several servers according to responses in the deleted thread) they are going to wish they had sorted raid IDs out properly. Essentially, once this starts happening on your server + faction regularly, you have no defense but to forbid your guild members from grouping with anybody outside the guild, and kicking people who do.

Or just doing things in one night. That would solve it if you're able, but most guilds can't when they start the content.

I agree that this is a problem. We had a guild take our Nefarion kill before the server reset because one of our leaders handed it over to them without telling the raid. He was publically chastised for being an idiot later, but once he handed over an invite, it's beyond your raid's control. IMO, the fix would be that the instance would be connected to the raid leader, and he's the only one who can make invites into it. Everyone would be on the RaidID timer, but you could do a check when zoning in to see if the person in the raid was invited by the leader.

WOw, especially at that final SS.

Blizzard is so fucking useless.

I don't understand the "forced wipe" comments. How does any of this allow a guild to force another guild to wipe? Are they saying they are together in a raid and one guild just lets themselves die or screw up to wipe the entire raid? My questions would be why invite them anymore if you know they are like that?

Or, are they saying their moles will do it?

That whole systems was yet another reason I cannot get into the big raids. I just want to log in and have fun. Nothing about that sounds fun at all.

*Edit: Man, made several mistakes....more coffee needed!

My Goodness : A GM actually used the phrase 'Working as Intended'. This could be the end of the World of Warcraft.

Quote from: Paelos on November 06, 2006, 09:23:13 AM

I agree that this is a problem. We had a guild take our Nefarion kill before the server reset because one of our leaders handed it over to them without telling the raid. He was publically chastised for being an idiot later, but once he handed over an invite, it's beyond your raid's control. IMO, the fix would be that the instance would be connected to the raid leader, and he's the only one who can make invites into it. Everyone would be on the RaidID timer, but you could do a check when zoning in to see if the person in the raid was invited by the leader.

Fixing by having a single "raid leader' key is undesirable because that fix means that if Bob The Leader is off on Wednesday, Guild Mundane is fuxx0red. The correct easymode band-aid is to keep the present system of everybody having a "key" but requiring that an "original keyholder" seed the instance before others in their party can enter. That way instances can still be hijacked, but it requires a level of participation on behalf of one of the original raiders that would warrant kicking their asses (out of the guild). Until you have that, somebody can invite you to group for (say) WSG, make it a raid group, promote you, and have one of the group enter your unfinished instance.

I'm not quite sure how this 'theft' works. Once you're 'saved' to an instanace, the game isn't supposed to let you into any other saved instance, regardless of raid leader. Previously we've had new members join our MC raids, but they couldn't raid with us because earlier in the week they'd done an MC with someone else.

They'd zone-in to MC and not see any of us standing around, because they were flagged with the other raid's ID. If you look at your 'info' button on the raid panel, it tells you the ID number, etc. It's saved to every individual, not just the Raid leader. The Raid leader hitting 'reset' shouldn't alter this either.

So these 'thief' guilds are just simply looking to cherry pick end bosses, yes? That's all I can see working for them. Rather than just taking the 2-3 hours to do a full clear, they're trying to get an instance where all they have to do is kill Domo & Rag, or perhaps just Rag. Seems like far more effort playing the 'hunt and nab' game than just running the place & getting extra Nexus, even as boring as MC is.

People new to mmog's now realize that their robot jesus is merely an upgrade of diku version 11.084.

When your customers use every tool available to bypass "content" you need to start examining implementation.

Quote from: Merusk on November 06, 2006, 10:52:43 AM

Seems like far more effort playing the 'hunt and nab' game than just running the place & getting extra Nexus, even as boring as MC is.

Its more about polishing their shields with other peoples' tears.

I don't know whether I should feel sorry for that GM or not.

Are they being so retarded because Blizzard has forced them to? Or because they're just plain stupid?

Really really dumb. And fucking Rude, to just repeat yourself mindlessly in a supposedly intelligent conversation.

Quote from: Merusk on November 06, 2006, 10:52:43 AM

Yes thats the whole point, skipping to the end of MC for god damn tier 2 pants or skipping all of aq just for cthun loot etc. Theres another thread a few days old about the biggest US horde raid guild all getting banned for skipping straight to cthun through a wall so the desire is obviously there.

Quote from: Merusk on November 06, 2006, 10:52:43 AM

If you know of a guild (and there are a few) who split their raid nights up, clear the instance one night, then take down the bosses the next night, then all you need is a Raid ID for the first night. And it's not much effort to nab an ID for that. As the OP put it, some idiot will always just stupidly accept a group invite.

I find that really hard to believe. I can personally attest to an instance on my server (Tichondrious) where a guild tried something similar (jacking someone elses instance) and was quite readily slapped down for it by our server GM. Dont think there were any bannings, but there were quite a few warnings and i believe a number of suspentions handed out.

As to the whole instance key thing, I actually like the current system. For one, it has its advantages for "cherry Picking" end bosses when done with consent.

Sure, when you get yourself locked to any instance, you cant go into a different one till that particular instance resets (which can be a bummer if you decide to go on a pug run of something, only kill a few bosses, and then find out your guild decide do do an unanounced run of the same instance the next day). However, legitimately nabbing nearly finished instances also has its perks.

A lot of the big horde guilds on my server are fairly friendly between each other. Since my guild almost never raids AQ or BWL any more, very few of us are ever locked to an instance, and there are a few guilds we have deals with, where they cant kill a certain boss (usually Neffarian or C'thun), so they clear the instance up to the final boss, and then invite us along for a 50/50 split (or whatever split we can manage with whover is interested) and we help them Kill the bosses, and split the loot.

Sure, if we were some kind of scum, we could attempt to muscle them out of their own instance and take the kill for ourselves, but that is usually a lot harder then it seems. Plus, we usually do the team kills on a monday, just before the server resets anyhow.

Quote from: Threash on November 06, 2006, 04:53:17 PM

So it's just asshats being asshats then. No way of patching that out. My guild is by no way, shape or means "uber elite." We can clear MC in just over 3 hours, including a 15 min break after Garr. Sitting around waiting for some other guild to complete MC and zone-out so you can steal a raid ID is being a dick for the sake of being a dick. The liklihood of cherrypicking an instance like that will take you more time than just doing it yourself if you're an uber-leet Nax & BWL guild.

All the bitching about 'it takes too long' and 'we never see xyz drop.' fuck it. It's an MMO in the EQ style and has been the same for the last 2 years. They knew what they were signing up for, they're just pissed they can't type in the cheat code to get the shiny. If you're bored, stop playing. They get no sympathy from me.

Quote from: Merusk on November 06, 2006, 05:48:04 PM

If you're bored, stop playing.

Can I sig this? How about tattoo it on my head? Or take out a 2 page ad in the NY Times?

Even if it is rare for someone ot ninja a raid like this, they should still be suspended when they succeed.

Nebu wins the thread. You have a problem when people are bending over backwards to skip "content."

Quote from: Margalis on November 07, 2006, 12:27:38 AM

Nebu wins the thread. You have a problem when people are bending over backwards to skip "content."

The problem is that when you first did the content, it was exciting. It was new and hard and a challenge and fun to beat. It was even fun for the first month or two after the first kill. After a while though it starts to get old. But the loot on the end boss of instances is always extremely good compared to the earlier bosses, so there's still a motivator to go do said boss. The same thing plays out in every instance; Ragnaros in MC, Nefarian in BWL, C'Thun in AQ40.

Don't get the impression that all the early bosses in an instance are time sink. They're not, most bosses are definitely fun for a while. But everything gets old at some point, some things faster than others. The solution really is to allow guilds a way to earn the right to bypass bosses in an instance over time. You have fun for a few months clearing out the instance, and then when you have all the loot you need and things are getting old, you still have a free pass to the final boss, which is still usually fun to do and has worthwhile loot.

Oh come on. Is there anyone here that doesn't consider as axiom that all content should be better, fun, engaging, all that stuff?

The proof is in what players do. Some people think exploring new areas is fun. Some people think figuring out an encounter the first time is fun. Some people think winning is the only thing that matters. Nobody sits at a one-armed bandit and says "wow, blowing my rotary cuff on this single-activity experience is the move fun evar!1!!"

Meanwhile, back at the point:

Blizzard doesn't want to play parent. Given how much prior companies have screwed up that role, I can't blame them. They have a billion GMs just trying to keep the game working.

This RaidID thing is an incomplete and exploitable system, but it all comes down to recruitment policy and getting burned once. A guild gets burned once and they tighten up enrollment. Same with alliances. For every guild and server upon which this happens there are countless others of both who this won't happen to.

It's not really a technical exploit. It's a personnel one.

If they bound the Raid ID to the guild (based upon the leader of the raid that kicked off that weeks instance), rather then to the players that had been in the instance, and required a player from the guild to be the raid leader when reentering the instance, it would seem a bit tougher to gimmick.

Hmmm, that just screws stuff up a different way.

Quote from: Typhon on November 09, 2006, 08:17:55 AM

I agree with Ironwood in how that could mess things up a different way. I'm no expert of course, but I do raid in an Alliance. No one guild in our alliance can fill an entire raid until we gear up enough to handle them with less than the maximum number of people. RaidIDs tied specifically to guilds would only work for guilds that can fill a raid.

Can I ask? Honestly? Who cares? Let people do this. It doesn't matter. It's not game unbalancing, you still get the same amount of loot out of the dungeon, and now you have twice as many people bound to the same raid ID.

Theoretically you can steal it, but frankly, in any dungeon that matters the online community for hardcore raiders is so small that it would only happen once.

I refer the slow of reading back to the quick and dirty solution that I posted earlier.

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The correct easymode band-aid is to keep the present system of everybody having a "key" but requiring that an "original keyholder" seed the instance before others in their party can enter.

This removes the ability for somebody to invite a keyholder to a group for another alleged purpose but to then steal their raid instance. Untrustworthy people may still give away raids willingly, but that's a problem that won't persist.

Too easy and simple of a solution.

Quote from: Ironwood on November 09, 2006, 08:19:03 AM

Hmmm, that just screws stuff up a different way.

You're right, it does cause problems. For instance, if a guild is big enough to sport two InstanceX runs (with an A team and a B team), this method makes that impossible.

In the world where guilds are big enough to sport only one raid offering, I think this method isn't so bad - guild X can still give their instance to guild Y as long as a guild X member is the raid leader on zone-in (they can change the raid leader after zone in), but guild Y members can't steal the instance from guild X even if they were in the original outing.

Not being a part of a big guild, I really don't know how much of a problem instance stealing is. It seems like something that doesn't happen very often (and not more then once with one guild) - so it's probably self correcting anyway.