The Final Fantasy XII Thread!

[dusematic]

Six was the best. I love 4 because of how young I was. But six is the best. This one may succeed in being better than 6 though.

Shit dude.  I'm going to give you a few more days with the game so we don't jump to any hasty conclusions.

[Trippy]

What makes this game so great?  If your only answer is story then no, its not a crime.

Dunno yet. The story is certainly more "mature" that some of the more recent ones. The combat system is a big change though it's nothing that MMORPG players haven't seen before (other than the fact that you can pause things if you like). The character advancement system is also an interesting change though it's annoying that's it's a two-step process (even after you "learn" a skill you still have to go and buy/find it before you can use it).

I'm not sure I like the character designs in this one. There's a certain "harshness" to the textures with exaggerated shadowing that's bugging me and like the literal washboard abs on the main character (well at least he's still the main character for me despite schild's protestations that he's not the one). Most also have these annoying "pinched" noses with exaggerated highlights to make them look even thinner.

[Kail]

The game is getting pretty rave reviews everywhere.

So has every Final Fantasy ever.  On Gamespot, VII = 9.5, VIII = 9.5, IX = 8.5, and X = 9.3.  And XII got a 9.0.
In comparison, Halo got a 9.7.

I mean, it's a new game, and it has a lot of hype behind it.  In my experience, that means that some seriously hyperbolic opinions (on both sides).  I have almost no knowledge of this game; I haven't been a Final Fantasy fan in a long time and I haven't been keeping track of this one because it looks a lot like... well, a lot like the previous eleven Final Fantasies (barring XI, I guess), except with a higher number.  Am I wrong?  If so, I would love to hear how; if not, I don't see how missing this game would be any bigger a deal than missing FF X was or missing FF XIII will be.

Addendum: Reading Trippy's post, I'm not really getting excited about a new character advancement system or some tweaks to the combat system.  Didn't FF X have those, too?  And FF IX?  And VIII?  And so on?  Or is it moving in some new direction now?

[Signe]

Missing this game should be a fucking crime. I don't care if the lead characters were outright gay and made fun of Jews as side banter. This shit rocks.

You said that about Disgaea 2 as well.  I found it to be merely pretty decent and that's because I like SRPGs.

Why should we believe you again?

What makes this game so great?  If your only answer is story then no, its not a crime.

I didn't much like Disgaea 2 but I like FFXII.  Well, at least so far.  I'm sure I'll never finish it but I never finish anything.  I wish the combat let me do more, though.  But then, I have terrible taste in most things, I think.  Except husbands... I excel at those.

[schild]

It's funny, everyone in f13.house thinks it's some of the best character models EVER. Even the running animations are fairly amazing.

[Trippy]

It's funny, everyone in f13.house thinks it's some of the best character models EVER. Even the running animations are fairly amazing.

The models (except for the noses) and animations are top notch as you would except from Square. I'm talking about the textures.

[Lum]

So, how can you handle adding Steal to a gambit? Because apparently once you steal something the target is cleaned out, but someone with a steal gambit will keep stealin-stealin-stealin. Is there a higher level gambit that fixes this, or are you supposed to steal crap manually? Because given how tight the game is with cash... you need to be stealin'.

[Trippy]

So, how can you handle adding Steal to a gambit? Because apparently once you steal something the target is cleaned out, but someone with a steal gambit will keep stealin-stealin-stealin. Is there a higher level gambit that fixes this, or are you supposed to steal crap manually? Because given how tight the game is with cash... you need to be stealin'.

Yes that's a very good question. I have all three of my characters on manual right now since I always open by having all three steal until they get an item/gil. Best that I can figure out is you either steal manually (they can still have their gambits turned on since your manual commands override the gambits) or if you can find the "Foe: character HP = 100%" gambit (which I haven't yet) you could set things up so it would the first gambit on all your characters. Your thieves would set their action to Steal and everybody else would be set to some "null" action like Libra or something. Then you have one of your characters do some damage after you've stolen something which would push all the actions down to the second gambit.

Edit: fixed typo. Also the second thing wouldn't work if you had a guest in your party unless they were beating on another target.

[Velorath]

I love 4 because of how young I was.

That's pretty much how I feel about all the FF games, story-wise anyway.  None of the games have particularly great storytelling, just good storytelling for a video game.  I think of them in the same way I think of Dragonlance novels.  The stories seem epic when you're young, but even if you don't fully outgrow them it's just not the same when you get older.  I'm playing FFXII right now and it's enjoyable enough, but I'm not going to enjoy it in the same way that I did earlier FF games when I was younger.

[Rasix]

This game is good. Not very far in yet (3 hours), but I already like it a lot.  Voice acting is excellent. Visuals are top notch (SH2 is still prettier IMO). Combat is kinda nifty even with the limited options I have so far. I have a feeling it's going to get a lot better before it gets worse.

So.. am I supposed to make Vaan a heavy fighter or a hybrid thief or what?  This license board gives me too much freedom.  I'm getting a bit overwhelmed.

BTW, he's not very femboyish at all in game.  Incase anyone was holding off a purchase on account of their secret boy-crushes.

[ahoythematey]

Music is fucking fantastic.  This game is making up a lot for FFX-2.  And more.  Anybody curious as to the almost grainy style of character design go look at Vagrant Story.  I'm pretty sure it was intentional.

[schild]

The watercolourish textures are straight from the Radiata Stories school of character design. You really come to appreciate it once you get about 5-6 hours into the game. It's truly fantastic. Though I still miss some of the design philosophy of Takehiko Inoue. But I suppose I'll get Lost Odyssey for the 360 for a heavy dosage of that (he's overseeing every single piece of character art in that game).

[Trippy]

or if you can find the "Foe: character HP = 100%" gambit (which I haven't yet) you could set things up so it would the first gambit on all your characters. Your thieves would set their action to Steal and everybody else would be set to some "null" action like Libra or something. Then you have one of your characters do some damage after you've stolen something which would push all the actions down to the second gambit.

Actually, after reading the strat guide more closely I don't think that'll work in many if not most cases. It sounds like your party members will go searching for any mobs with full HPs within "targeting" range to steal from. I'm currently just overriding their gambits by stealing manually and that seems to be working okay. With three thieves it usually only takes one "round" to grab something.

[schild]

Yea, I do the same thing with theft. Completely manual. Balthier is a monster at thievery though. I have a feeling Balthier....wait, I'm not doing this tonight so someone else can (siesta time) - but we need a thread with spoilers.

[Zephyr]

I am really enjoying it.  However, I keep picturing Murderface from Metalacolypse when Migelo speaks.

[Special J]

Picked it up this morning and it sits on my desk.  I'm very encouraged by the positive reception its getting here.

Which one was VI?  The numbering between the US and Japan games back confuse me.

EDIT: Ok I figured it out. That was FFIII when released in the US right? If so, yeah VI really kicked ass.

[Merusk]

I'm still waiting on the $20 version to pop up.  Yes, I'm evil blah blah blah.   I like that you all seem to be enjoying it, however.

[Yegolev]

Picked it up at Sam's Club yesterday while waiting for Old Dude to get out of the optometrist's chair (~$44.49); he was apparently regaling the optometrist with WWII stories and she was not mean enough to tell him to get out.  Damn WWII.  Anyway... played a bit until the wife went to sleep, just getting to the save point outside the gates.  So far it is very, very nice.  Very obvious Vagrant Story/FFT feel, flavor, sound, and other senses, so naturally I get a big erection whlie playing.  The music is grabbing me by the balls already, especially with the FF1 theme near the beginning.  Character advancement appears suitably complex.  Characters are well-done (not sure about the "normal-mapping" on Vaan's chest, but whatever).

Combat.  Getting used to it.  I think I'll like it a lot more as I go along and get used to it.

For the purposes of forum discussion, I am not going to be caught-up enough to discuss this and have not read the thread except Schild's initial post.

[Margalis]

The director (who left 1/2 way through the project) is the same guy who did Vagrant Story, who is also the same guy who did the old Ogre Battle games before the Quest was basically bought out by Square. Apparently he (Matsuno) is very well-respected and is considered their top creative guy. He left the project under rather strange circumstances, from what I understand he basically just stopped showing up to work.

Word is he wants to make another Ogre Battle game and is despressed he can't do that.

[schild]

The director left halfway through the project because he went a little nuts and disappeared shortly after Hironobu Sakaguchi left Squaresoft. The Japanese tend to do that - go nuts that is...

Anyway, he disappeared for 3 months I think and was replaced. That's the rumor in the circles I run with anyway.

So!

Final Fantasy XII!

I've just hit the 10 hour mark or so and it's getting even better! The dialogue has never dipped below "good" and any scene involving Basch and Balthier is pure fucking love! Between this and the handful of games coming out early '07/sooner (God of War 2, Persona 3, Rogue Galaxy, Guitar Hero 2, Dawn of Mana, Ar Tonelico, Lumines +, and Victorious Boxers 2 ($9.99!)) - the PS2 is really showing its legs. It's entirely possible that this could be the 4th PS2 Christmas in a row. It may be the spoiler console!

No Joke!

Serious!

FFXII!

Round 2!

FIGHT!

[MrHat]

So, backwards compatibility on the PS3 ftw?

[schild]

Nah, by the time the PS3 comes out, the game will have been ruined 5 times over on this message board and everywhere else I'm sure. It's one of those titles you either play now or never. Cuz Snape is in the story killing its Dumbledores.

[Signe]

I'm playing it fast this time, before my nephew sees it!

[MrHat]

Nah, by the time the PS3 comes out, the game will have been ruined 5 times over on this message board and everywhere else I'm sure. It's one of those titles you either play now or never. Cuz Snape is in the story killing its Dumbledores.

I have no idea what you mean here.  Spoilers?

[Yegolev]

For the FF stuff, I just prefer having the very nicely-formatted professional guides and tables instead of the ASCII garbage you need to print-out yourself, and never has all the info you want so you have to print out multiple different guides.

You don't have a laptop on your coffeetable for such a purpose?  Paper is dead.

I know I wasn't going to read this thread, but being unable to play this game without my wife is driving me nuts.

I don't know if anyone summed up the general feel of FFXII, but to me it's sort of like FFT plus FFTA retooled as a single-player MOG.  There's even a FFTA character in it, plus the FFTA music.  Of course, I'm not very far into it.

The watercolourish textures are straight from the Radiata Stories school of character design.

I think it's a bit more like Vagrant Story, but it might be harder to see if you don't use the texture smoothing option on the PS2; it really makes VS look much better.  Maybe it's just the characters, though.  You might think you are in Leá Monde, except everything isn't brown.  Of course, the art director is the same; well, he became the overall director as you mentioned.

Like I said, I have not gotten very far into it, but the reason to buy this is because it is as much better than X as X was from IX.  Character advancement is complex (if you like that sort of thing).  There seems to be a lot to do.  It looks and sounds amazing, from the world to the characters to the details like the dust clouds when you run across dirt.  No random encounters (my wife loves the fact that there is no jarring combat transition)!  There's also a nice sheen of polish on the game.

I think someone asked about the changing combat system?  True, it changes with every new game but this is a radical departure from the previous systems.  The biggest change is the lack of random encounters, at least early on.  There's also an attempt to make loot more sensible (no more wolves dropping gil).  There was a lack of random encounters in Grandia III, I know, but that game was a tepid pile of shit in comparison.

Just buy it if you have any interest in JRPGs.  Buy Contact too.  I'm going to stare at the clock until quitting time.

[Signe]

My laptop isn't on the coffee table, it's on Righ's lap.  I just ask him to look stuff up.  It makes me feel as if we're playing together.  I love the little groany noises he makes when I ask a question, too. 

[Yegolev]

Your husband performs the same function as my wife.

[Miasma]

The director left halfway through the project because he went a little nuts and disappeared shortly after Hironobu Sakaguchi left Squaresoft. The Japanese tend to do that - go nuts that is...

Does that mean we can look forward to a "From Dusk Till Dawn" type moment where the plot and characters are all progressing nicely and then, all of the sudden, BAM! VAMPIRES!

[Lum]

That would be AWESOME.

Anyway, a couple of notes now that I'm a few evenings in:

- You can buy "Condition: Enemy 100% HP" at a Gambit shop. It's a good thing to slap Steal on. Rarely will your theif try to steal more than once.
- Could we be any MORE of a Star Wars ripoff, please? I mean, I'll try not to spoil anything, but jesus, Square, I'm pretty sure Billy Dee Williams is working for cheap now.

[schild]

Star Wars Ripoff? You mean Hidden Fortress. And since the Japanese INVENTED THAT SHIT, I think it's ok for Penelo and Vaan to be C3PO and R2.

[Trippy]

R2D2 and C3PO? I was thinking more of Han and Chewie and it's obvious who Leia is. Luke is a little more up in the air since their backgrounds are so different but the age is about right (and it matches Leia's oddly enough).

[Margalis]

This is like complaining that Warhammer is ripping WOW.

Anyway this gambit system and the fact that people like it plays into something I've commented on here before. Something that is very popular is games that you can play in very distinct parts.

Magic: The Gathering is a good example of this. You can create a deck by yourself, which is totally different than playing a game against other people. Some people like to JUST build decks, and some like JUST to play. Its almost two games in one.

CoreWars was like that. There was a design part and a fighting part.

Lots of sports games are like this, where they have a manager mode or franchise mode or whatever. Different parts of the game that all fit under one theme but play differently and perhaps appeal to very different players. Or even different play moods. Sometimes I may feel like just relaxing, clicking through some menus and doing manager mode or building a deck, and sometimes I may want to get online and battle people. I can do those two things within the same game!

This trend has really picked up steam. I think the play moods describes it best. Sometimes getting online is a hassle. Sometimes I want less twitch and more design and planning.

Character creation in MMORPGs is like this as well. Character creation is a very different experience from actually playing the game. If nothing else it is a good change of pace.

I think the gambit system is a lot like this in that it engages a different part of your brain.

One thing many of these systems have in common is that you can actively think about them while not playing them. You might be dreaming up a gambit sequence that makes sense or an awesome magic deck, or be thinking about your draft strategy in Madden or who Cena should feud with next on Raw. Back when I did CoreWars (a long time ago) I would write programs in my notebook during lunch.

So I would break it down like:

Leisurely paced planning/dreaming/creation phase that may not even require a computer at all points.
Real-ish time core gameplay.

That seems like a sweet spot that a lot of games hit.

[dusematic]

Good post.

[Lum]

Uh huh. When you get to "Cloud City", er, Bhagavadsharadland or whatever it was called, let me know if you still think I'm not paying proper homage to the Japanese samurai movies Lucas ripped off. Although turning Chewbacca into INTERNET BUNNY GIRL is, I admit, genius. And to be fair, the FF12 writers do write better dialogue than Lucas does.

Agreed on the Gambit system. Not sure how deep it gets, I'm already running into some limits (Hey, why can't I cast Fire Once, except when I'm over 60% mana, on all enemies over a given level that are fire-vulnerable in sequence?) but it's pretty cool for a console game to have that level of programmable depth.

[WindupAtheist]

Owned.