BF2142 has Spyware? /dropkick

[Stephen Zepp]

I'm not in any way taking a "pro" position on this tech or it's use, but didn't anyone else ever say "damn that would be cool" when they saw the focused advertising in that damned Tom Cruise movie, uhh, can't remember it atm.

Seek help, because that squicked me out more than the eyeball removal scene did.

Siding with Big Gulp here.  Not cool and in fact very un-cool.  My wife and I probably aged to retirement after viewing that scene, decrying the rapid decline of our wonderful way of life.  "Shit, Johnny, I remember the Good Old Days when God-damn billboards didn't creep ya the fuck out by calling out yer fuckin' name and pushin' shitty products on ya based on how yer God-damn last medical exam came out."

In the future, old people will have incredibly foul mouths.

Obviously the film was demonstrating that anything in volume is bad. Look at nuclear power--we all hate the bomb, but in the environmental thread over in politics it seems that even the lefties appear to believe that nuclear power is our overall safest solution.

What I was getting with the "hmm, that's cool" mindset wasn't the exact implementation, but the concept behind the scene: utilizing technology to make the whole advertisement scenario better for all involved parties.

Who here would, given that they -have- to watch commercials to watch their football/baseball/whatever game, want to be able to sign up in advance for the types of products they want to see commercials for, instead of being spammed with the various things that have NO interest to you whatsoever?

[Fabricated]

Too bad really. Even if it was buggy I kinda dug how it looked and felt.

[Yegolev]

Obviously the film was demonstrating that anything in volume is bad. Look at nuclear power--we all hate the bomb, but in the environmental thread over in politics it seems that even the lefties appear to believe that nuclear power is our overall safest solution.

OK, I'll hand that to you.  I can be interested in the technical details of something I don't care for.  I might have figured that out if I hadn't been up way too late.

If you are playing the home game, note that I don't read things in Politics.  However, I suppose the local lefties are much smarter than the average hippie and can appreciate nuclear power.  It's my understanding that the biggest concern there is thermal pollution, but it's not something I spend any time thinking about.  If we are comparing advertisment to waste as a byproduct of something we want, I'll take the most inoccuous version I can get.

As for targeting, I find it strange to advertise to someone that is probably already using your product, but I don't know anything about advertising from the "top" or "uke" position.

[HaemishM]

As for targeting, I find it strange to advertise to someone that is probably already using your product, but I don't know anything about advertising from the "top" or "uke" position.

It's cheaper to retain customers than make new ones. Better Return on Investment. It's also cheaper to pick up new customers who are already buying similar products that aren't yours than it is customers who buy nothing close to what you sell. I.e. it's easier to sell a woman on Massengail douche who has been using Summer's Eve douche than it is to sell a man some either kind of douche.

[Sky]

Who here would, given that they -have- to watch commercials to watch their football/baseball/whatever game, want to be able to sign up in advance for the types of products they want to see commercials for, instead of being spammed with the various things that have NO interest to you whatsoever?

I reject your -given-. On sunday, we watch two games and switch off when there's a commercial, with much bitching if we get caught in a commercialchasm, when both stations are on commercial breaks. I just gave up watching the last set of shows (Office/Earl) in real time, now I DVR everything but NFL.

I pretty much refuse to watch commercials, I pay out my poor aching anus for programming and devices to watch it on, I don't want to sit and watch fucking ads, even if they're kitties nestled between giant bosoms with plasma screens attached. Think of how much less I want to see them in a game I paid for, over an internet connection I paid for, on equipment I fucking paid for.

Fucking capitalists, just don't know when to stop grabbing, the motherraping cockgoblins.

[Sky]

Err, anyway. BF2142. I was reading some stuff about how it's geo-targeting, so the US doesn't get UK ads, etc.

Fine. I DON'T WANT ANY ADS IN MY FUCKING GAME. Period. I don't want to be playing 2142 and see a Deuce fucking Bigalow ad.

What is wrong with people? Oh, that's right. Last sentence of my last post.

edit: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=11300

The time that each ad impression takes place is also recorded by IGA, alongside what type of ad content it was (billboard, megaboard, or video stream), the duration (how long was the ad seen for), the size of the ad relative to the player, and the angle of deflection (what angle the ad is viewed at).

Regarding today's online controversy, Townsend noted that "you are always going have that hardcore vocal minority" who don't want in-game ads. But he suggested that if those same people "knew the kind of painful transition that most publishers are going through right now", they might approve of in-game ads as an important financial support function for next-gen titles.

edit2: Please tell me this is not real.

Also, funny sig image:

[Sky]

Ok, looking at that it can't be real, the google looks faked in at least. Can someone who has installed this adware put up a couple screenshots of the ads?

[Miasma]

The ads aren't in yet but that screenshot is accurate in that there are a huge number of placeholders and billboards set up already.

[stray]

No wonder why the rest of the game is so bland and gray.

[sinij]

I mind adds because they are information pollution and it takes effort to completely ignore them. Adds *designed* to be interruptive, to catch your attention and to be hard to ignore. I don't see how can anyone play and enjoy a game that, looking at the picture, resembles an acid trip due to all visual field polution.

[HaemishM]

Regarding today's online controversy, Townsend noted that "you are always going have that hardcore vocal minority" who don't want in-game ads. But he suggested that if those same people "knew the kind of painful transition that most publishers are going through right now", they might approve of in-game ads as an important financial support function for next-gen titles.

See, I would believe him if he didn't work for EA. But he does. These fuckers have the spent BILLIONS of dollars making sure the only goddamn football game I can play for the next 15 motherfucking cockjockeying years is fucking Madden, an inferior football game. The publisher buys up dev houses like it's fucking candy. Ads in-game are not about making money, they are about making MORE MONEY. I don't have a problem with ads in games in principle, I do have a problem with executive douchebags from a company built on douchebaggery telling me its necessary.

[WayAbvPar]

Now THAT is funny.

[Sky]

See, I would believe him if he didn't work for EA. But he does. These fuckers have the spent BILLIONS of dollars making sure the only goddamn football game I can play for the next 15 motherfucking cockjockeying years is fucking Madden, an inferior football game. The publisher buys up dev houses like it's fucking candy. Ads in-game are not about making money, they are about making MORE MONEY. I don't have a problem with ads in games in principle, I do have a problem with executive douchebags from a company built on douchebaggery telling me its necessary.

Actually, he has a point. They've had to lay out a LOT of cash to restrict your choices. Now you'll pay for it. (Or not, I haven't bought a football game since the last Sega one).

[Belce]

This sort of thing also appeared in SWAT4 as well.  

I think that if you want to make these sort of games seem more real you have to include some sort of advertising.  You go out in the street and there are coke ads and car ads all over the place.  The you go and play a game and it has no ads or it has ads for blamo beer instead and it detracts from the sensation overall, because its less real.  And being real is very important in these games...

Overal prognosis for this is some small few upset at this initially and then it becomes generally accepted practice you no longer care or think about.  Look at how people think about ads before movies in the theatre these days.  

[HaemishM]

Overal prognosis for this is some small few upset at this initially and then it becomes generally accepted practice you no longer care or think about.  Look at how people think about ads before movies in the theatre these days.  

They make me want to stab Wall Street in the face.

[MisterNoisy]

This sort of thing also appeared in SWAT4 as well. 

I think that if you want to make these sort of games seem more real you have to include some sort of advertising.  You go out in the street and there are coke ads and car ads all over the place.  The you go and play a game and it has no ads or it has ads for blamo beer instead and it detracts from the sensation overall, because its less real.  And being real is very important in these games...

Overal prognosis for this is some small few upset at this initially and then it becomes generally accepted practice you no longer care or think about.  Look at how people think about ads before movies in the theatre these days. 

This only holds if the ads are appropriate to and blend well with the game envoronment.  Seeing recogniozable logos, etc in a modern racing game or in something like Def Jam or whatever is fine, and as you say, can add to (or at least not break) 'realism/immersion'.  Seeing 'period-correct' ads in a historical shooter wouldn't bother me either, though if I'm storming Berlin, those ads better be in German.  Same for futuristic games - the context and presentation should be correct for the environment you've created.

Seeing modern-era ads (which in all likelihood will be invulnerable to the ravages of war, no less) in a game like 2142 would be fucking retarded and would tell your customers that you're much less interested in delivering an immersive experience than you are in whoring them out to marketers.

[sinij]

It also detracts from realism that when I shoot at you in the game and you don't fall over, spraying blood all over your brand new uniform, shitting your pants in process and screaming that you don't want to die and then dying in agony few minutes later never *ever* to be seen again and instead proceed to respawn few seconds later to try to shoot at me again.

Some realizm is good and other, like polluting my leisure time with invasive advertising, is not.

What puzzles me is how much effort EA spent in PR trying to make this shameless money grab seem OK - 'plants' coming out of woodworks all over place. Its not even FANBOI, I don't think EA has any left, its clear cases of paid-to-post BS plants.

[MisterNoisy]

Heh.  Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying 'MORE ADZ PLZ!  IT MAEKS IT REALER!!' and would prefer that gaming remain ad-free, but I don't think this sort of thing is going to go away no matter how much you'd like it to.  I'm just saying that if you're going to do it, at least take some care in doing it and have some shred of respect for your customers.

It wouldn't bother me too much to drive by a Best Buy or something like that in a street-racing game.  It would bother me to see an indestructible shiny-new Coke sign in something like 2142 or have to sit through commercials in my loading screens (like all those 'The way it's meant to be played' ads that nVidia pays PC game makers for, apparently).

[Strazos]

Holy fuck people, just don't buy the game then.

[Murgos]

Overal prognosis for this is some small few upset at this initially and then it becomes generally accepted practice you no longer care or think about.  Look at how people think about ads before movies in the theatre these days. 

Right, that's why the movie industry is currently experiencing a new Renaissance in revenue causing even their mediocre films to make oodles of money.  Or possibly watching commericials before the movie is just one more thing making people stay home?

[WayAbvPar]

I time my arrival to the theatre to compensate for the ads, so I miss 90% of them. I fucking HATE HATE HATE paying for something and STILL getting force-fed advertisements.

[Viin]

Hurray for Netflix.

[Yoru]

Overal prognosis for this is some small few upset at this initially and then it becomes generally accepted practice you no longer care or think about.  Look at how people think about ads before movies in the theatre these days. 

They make me want to stab Wall Street in the face.

Hear hear. I refuse to patronize any theater that shows ads. I once left a previously-untested theater during the ads and demanded my money back from the manager on hand. Fortunately, I have a lot of theater selections in my area, so I can still see mainstream flicks that I actually want to see at a handful of the adless second-run or ultrapremium theaters.

I have the same attitude towards ads in games, and I've yet to come across a title that I've been unable to pass up that has integrated advertising - but then, BF2142/SWAT4/Splinter Cell aren't up my $50 alley. The fact that the major singleplayer titles with this technology come from EA - moneygrubbingest of moneygrubbers - doesn't surprise me in the least. EA actively seeks out new lows in seeing how far it can push consumers, it seems.

[sinij]

I time my arrival to the theatre to compensate for the ads, so I miss 90% of them. I fucking HATE HATE HATE paying for something and STILL getting force-fed advertisements.

I'm so with you. I go out of my way to see movies in a theatre that don't show me adds, just reviews - AMC. Can you belive, last time I went to Cineplex they had 17 (seventeen) minutes of adds! That after paying $20+ for 2 tickets.

[Strazos]

Generally, when I go with friends, we burn ad time by talking. And heck, I actually like some of the trailers for upcoming movies, because I don't pay too much attention to movies.

[Krakrok]

I like ads. However, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. If I pay $50 for your shitty game I don't want ads. If you give me the game for free you can show me ads all day long and I don't care. Additionally, you don't get to track my browsing habits to form your bullshit profile of what I might like. If the game is free you can give me check boxes where I can say what topic of ads I want to see. If the game is pay you can shove the ads up your ass. And if that means the game won't get made then you can fuck off, die, and go out of business. I won't miss you or your game.

This double dipping bullshit is the same thing telcos want to do with internet access.

[Yegolev]

Product placement in movies can be immersive or it can be intrusive.  If someone is drinking a Dasani, that's fine.  That's in the realm of possibility.  When I start seeing Dasani bottles lined up conspicuously in the background, it's distracting.  It's not even funny when Mike Myers does it, but then he's been doing that shit since Wayne's World.  Same limit applies to games.  Not sure I trust EA to not go overboard.  I get the impression that the execs beat up homeless for pocket change.

[eldaec]

Only example of a billboard I could find in the reviews is this...



Judging from the review pictures, it doesn't seem *that* intrusive.

Picture from...
http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=37972&mode=thread&order=0

[Kitsune]

I like ads. However, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. If I pay $50 for your shitty game I don't want ads. If you give me the game for free you can show me ads all day long and I don't care. Additionally, you don't get to track my browsing habits to form your bullshit profile of what I might like. If the game is free you can give me check boxes where I can say what topic of ads I want to see. If the game is pay you can shove the ads up your ass. And if that means the game won't get made then you can fuck off, die, and go out of business. I won't miss you or your game.

This double dipping bullshit is the same thing telcos want to do with internet access.

Confirmed.  That's my exact position on the topic.  I have no beef with ad-supported games, so long as the player gets a piece of the pie in a lower price, no monthly fee, etc.  When you pay the same price and get the same crap game AND get ads shoved in your face, that equals no-buy.

[sinij]

Judging from the review pictures, it doesn't seem *that* intrusive.

That is place holder that has weather and wear and tear effects on it to blend and designed not to be intrusive  - notice no sharp contrasts, loud neon colours, moving things or supersized sales pitches that you can't help but read. Real adds will be a lot more intrusive. If you are wondering how bad it will get - just think about 'punch the monkey'.

[Kitsune]

By the way: http://www.ftc.gov/

I encourage people to file complaints about the fact that by the time the customer has opened the box and discovered that the game is spyware, it can't be returned for a refund.  EA deserves a spanking from the feds on the lack of an opt-out and the fact that the spyware aspect isn't clearly displayed on the box.  Here's EA's corporate info to enter into the complaint form:

209 Redwood Shores Pkwy.
Redwood City, CA 94065
(650) 628-1500

[Miasma]

Judging from the review pictures, it doesn't seem *that* intrusive.

That is place holder that has weather and wear and tear effects on it to blend and designed not to be intrusive  - notice no sharp contrasts, loud neon colours, moving things or supersized sales pitches that you can't help but read. Real adds will be a lot more intrusive. If you are wondering how bad it will get - just think about 'punch the monkey'.

There is also a second billboard in that one shot, the RA thing below the crosshairs.

[Murgos]

I dl'd the demo and played it a bit.

I see no reason to play this game over any other just based on my experience with the gameplay.  Seemed ordinary.

[Tale]

Only example of a billboard I could find in the reviews is this...

Vuckan what?

[Murgos]

Seemed ordinary.

Ok, I changed my mind.  I looked up last night and it was 2 am and I had to be up at 6.  I'll be picking this up when i get a chance.