f13.net forums - Teen girl gets in trouble for anti-Bush image on her MySpace page

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July 27, 2025, 01:37:27 AM

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Don't know if you guys saw this or not.

http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/38768.html

U.S. agents question teen
Girl ran anti-Bush page on MySpace
By Laurel Rosenhall and Ryan Lillis - Bee Staff Writers

The latest Sacramento resident to be questioned by federal agents in possible threats against President Bush is a 14-year-old girl with a heart on her backpack and braces on her teeth, a freckle-nosed adolescent who is passionate about liberal politics and cute movie stars.

Her name is Julia Wilson, and she learned a vivid civics lesson Wednesday when two Secret Service agents pulled her out of biology class at McClatchy High School to ask about comments and images she posted on MySpace.

Beneath the words "Kill Bush," Julia posted a cartoonish photo-collage of a knife stabbing the hand of the president. It was one of a few images Julia said she used to decorate an anti-Bush Web page she moderated on MySpace, the social networking Web site that is hugely popular among teenagers.

The Secret Service refused to answer questions about the case or even confirm an investigation. Eric Zahren, a Secret Service spokesman, said the agency does not discuss its work "due to the sensitivity of our mission."

But Julia's mother, Kirstie Wilson, and an assistant principal at McClatchy High said two agents showed them badges stating they were with the Secret Service and the Department of Homeland Security.

Federal law prohibits making serious threats against the president, and Julia and her parents say what she did was wrong.

The couple are disturbed, however, that federal agents questioned a child at school -- without her parents present. And First Amendment lawyers question whether the Secret Service over-reacted to a 14-year-old's comments on a Web site made for casual socializing.

"I don't condone what she did, but it seems a little over the top to me," said Julia's father, Jim Moose. "You'd think they could look at the situation and determine that she's not a credible threat."

Earlier this month, federal officials arrested two Sacramento-area men for allegedly threatening the president. Elk Grove resident Michael Lee Braun has been charged with sending two threatening letters to the El Dorado Hills country club where Bush recently made an appearance. Rocklin resident Howard J. Kinsey is accused of threatening the president through a text message.

Here is how Julia Wilson's family tells their story:

Two Secret Service agents arrived at their Land Park home about 2:30 Wednesday afternoon, Kirstie Wilson said. They told her they wanted to speak with her daughter about threats to the president that she had posted on MySpace.

"She was in molecular biology, and I said I really didn't want to take her out of class for this," Kirstie Wilson said. "I said I'd make sure she came right home from school."

She asked the agents to come back in an hour, and they left.

Then Wilson sent her daughter a text message instructing her to come straight home from school.

"... there are two men from the secret service that want to talk with you. Apparently you made some death threats against president bush. Dont worry youre not going to jail or anything like that but they take these things very seriously these days," Kirstie Wilson wrote.

"Are you serious!?!? omg. Am I in a lot of trouble"? her daughter replied, using common teenage shorthand for "Oh, my God."

Kirstie Wilson called her husband. While they were on the phone, she received another text message from her daughter: "They took me out of class."

It was a 15- to 20-minute interview, Julia said. Agents asked her about her father's job, her e-mail address, and her Social Security number. They asked about the MySpace page she had created last year as an eighth-grader at Sutter Middle School.

"I told them I just really don't agree with Bush's politics," Julia said Thursday. "I don't have any plans of harming Bush in any way. I'm very peaceful; I just don't like Bush."

The MySpace page under question was a group page, similar to an online club.

Most of the groups Julia is a part of are fan clubs for movie stars like Jake Gyllenhaal and Ewan McGregor. The group that got her in trouble was called something like "People who want to stab Bush" -- Julia said she doesn't remember the exact name because she soon changed it.

After an eighth-grade history lesson in which she learned that threatening the president is against the law, Julia said she changed the group name to "So Bush is an idiot but hey what else is new?"

The group primarily consisted of her teenage friends who share her liberal political interests, Julia said. She deleted the group page over the summer when she decided that MySpace was juvenile and taking up too much time.

Moose and Wilson say they had no idea what their daughter had posted online.

"I was more than happy to have them talk to her about the severity of what she did. But I wanted to be here with her," Kirstie Wilson said.

McClatchy Assistant Principal Paul Belluomini said he usually does not notify parents when law enforcement officials come to school to interview students.

"Parents usually interfere with an investigation, so we usually don't notify them until it's done," he said.

Sacramento City Unified School District policy calls for parents to be notified but doesn't say whether it should happen before or after a student is interviewed. State law doesn't require parental notification.

In any case, said Ann Brick, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California, Julia Wilson's post did not sound like a "true threat" to the president, making it political speech that is protected by the First Amendment.

"The courts have to distinguish between political rhetoric and hyperbole and a real threat," Brick said. "A reasonable person would have to interpret what was said as indication of a serious intent to commit harm."

Peter Scheer, executive director of the California First Amendment Coalition, said in the current political climate, "the threshold that brings (agents) in has gotten lower."

"It's a cautionary tale for kids who are on MySpace that putting something on MySpace like 'Kill the President' is not the same as saying it on e-mail or over the phone," Scheer said. "The government is not systematically listening to all phone calls or going through e-mails, but it probably does search the Internet."

What the fuck is up with the Secret Service these days ?

They're totally nutso.

The Secret Service has been doing this sort of thing long before the rise of the Web. Like the article implies it's part of their job duties to investigate all serious threats against the President.

No, I'm well aware of that. However, I think with the heightened threat level, they're actually getting a little hysterical. Arresting the guy who criticised Cheney is one thing, since it's possible he was being a douche, but to disregard a parents wishes to bust into class and have a private talking to to a minor is BAD SHIT.

If I was the parent I'd be a little less 'I understand they have a tough job' and a little more 'What the Fuck Do You Think You're Doing with My Daughter You Cunts.'

Maybe that's just me.

Quote from: Ironwood on October 16, 2006, 02:13:33 AM

but to disregard a parents wishes to bust into class and have a private talking to to a minor is BAD SHIT.

If I was the parent I'd be a little less 'I understand they have a tough job' and a little more 'What the Fuck Do You Think You're Doing with My Daughter You Cunts.'

Maybe that's just me.

And were I the secret service agent I'd tell you to go fuck yourself, possibly with a headlock thrown in for good measure.

You threaten the President don't be surprised if some tall men in gray suits with earpieces pay you a visit. And nope, it's not in their mandate to even inform you that they're talking to your darling offspring.

Yeah, but you combine that with your recent anti-terror laws and your SS just became, well, SS.

;)

Anyways, to me this is the same as the Music Industry arresting Dead Grannies for downloading MP3's. A complete waste of time. When the President is actually in danger of getting emo'd to death, I'm sure the SS will be ready !

"Watch out Mr President, her heart is cold and black as midnight as her soul suffers ! SHE'S GOT LACE !!!"

I'm sure she'll be picked up in a black van and never seen again.

There's nothing unusual about this, nor is it any different than what they did "pre 9/11". Agents know that nearly all the threats they investigate are bogus and just people spouting off, but their job is to investigate anything regardless. You don't get to threaten bodily harm on the President, because it's a threat against not just a person but the continuation of government. There is the very real possibility that the assassination of a President could lead to a loss in continuation of government, but we take it for granted that it's not an issue. That it's happened a few times without major revolt is a small miracle.

The girl was being a dumbass. The Secret Service investigated, and let it go once they figured that's all it was. The article says it was a 15-20 minute interview, and that's all that came of it.

Over here, any official discussion with a minor needs to happen in the presence of a parent or guardian.

That's the thing. Not the actual investigation, the end-run around the parent.

But, hey, it's Useless News, so who cares ?

Internet users are getting younger and younger. With things such as MySpace around, there will be more and more kids posting with the immaturity of kids. I mean, that's what kids do... say silly stuff like, "I'm going to poke you in the ey!! And I don't care if you ARE the president!" I sure hope we have enough secret service agents to keep all the dangerous ten year olds in line.

They're the Secret Service. They can do what they want.

Quote from: Roac on October 16, 2006, 07:48:56 AM

You don't get to threaten bodily harm on the President, because it's a threat against not just a person but the continuation of government. There is the very real possibility that the assassination of a President could lead to a loss in continuation of government, but we take it for granted that it's not an issue. That it's happened a few times without major revolt is a small miracle.

What the fuck are you talking about? Major revolt? Even if someone were to kill enough people to 'threaten the continuance' (a long goddamned list), we'd just have the parties prop up some new guys, run primaries and have a new election. It's not like anyone would suddenly think the sky is falling because a few politicians got offed. It's a nonissue to anyone but the president and his family, really. And the special interest that's into him for a few million, but hey.

Quote from: Sky on October 16, 2006, 08:46:44 AM

What the fuck are you talking about? Major revolt?

Yes. It's not likely but is possible, and cities have rioted for less. Some governments have fallen as a result. Ours has safeguards to help secure against any of this, but it's not a foregone conclusion that there wouldn't be problems resulting from an assassination. That's why there's such heavy protection to try and prevent it, and a process to be followed which is defined fairly strictly to help ensure a continuation of government in that event.

The republitards might shit themselves and the defeatocrats will be dancing in the streets. I lived in LA during the King riots, rich white corporate america is not going to start a riot and the po' folks are going to celebrate some rich white guy getting a cap busted in his ass. Po' folks riot because it doesn't matter. Rich people (the kind that would care about who is president because it actually affects them directly) have a vested interest in not having riots interrupt their cashflow or portfolio. Our safeguards go far beyond any governmental heirarchy and inherent flexitibility.

The US would be just fine if W disappeared tomorrow, along with half the line of succession (in regards to the topic, I am in no way threatening violence against bushtard, I'm resigned to waiting out the next couple year in anticipation). Any real instability is so unlikely as to not be worth the thought.

The heavy protection is because the guy is in charge, of course he's going to use the assets available to cover his ass. Not because there's much danger beyond that, despite what he may think.

Quote from: Ironwood on October 16, 2006, 02:13:33 AM

It's also completely illegal. A parent has to be present (or at least give permission) for a minor to be interviewed by police. If there were any actionable crimes, this could tank any case they had (or at least any evidence gathered from the interview) because they didn't follow the rules of evidence.

EDIT: Again, it's fine that they investigated it, despite the stupidity of it all. That's SOP. What's not SOP, nor even remotely acceptable or legal, is the agents questioning the child without the parent present.

If he uses his best resources to police virtual playgrounds, dispatching field agents to the homes of children, he's going to significantly improve his chances of being killed by a real assassin or terrorist cell. And I'll shed no tears.

Quote from: HaemishM on October 16, 2006, 12:00:29 PM

It's also completely illegal. A parent has to be present (or at least give permission) for a minor to be interviewed by police.

Really? What law requires police to get parental permission to interview a minor as part of investigating the minor for a crime?

And Righ: This isn't a Bush thing, this is Secret Service operating procedure. They have been doing this shit for decades.

As has been said, the Secret Service has a long history of at least going through the motions when it comes to bullshit "threats" against a President. They went in knowing this kid's website meant nothing, talked for a few minutes so no one could say they ignored it, and left. /shrug

There were similar stories about Ultra-Righties doing the same stupid shit when Clinton was in office.

The results were the same, a visit from the Secret Service.

In fact, I find that article pretty fucking Fox-News. I'm so glad that the moral high ground keeps sinking.

One further thought. They didn't do anything harsh to this kid. They took her out of class for a 15 minute talk. Her life isn't ruined. She got embarrassed, but she should be. In turn, the Secret Service investigated a potential threat (because school kids NEVER kill people), and quickly dismissed it. No harm done.

I wish the rest of the government were this thorough when dealing with potential threats. Maybe a few of the 9/11 guys would've been picked up. Maybe Katrina wouldn't have happened as it did, or at least been quite as bad. It would be nice if everyone took their responsibilities that seriously, but also exercised enough common sense to realize when they've caught a red herring and need to move on. What happened here is what should've happened, and it's unfortunate it doesn't happen elsewhere.

Much as I'd love to be on the girl's side, I can't be on this one. She didn't just say "I hate Bush", she said "Kill Bush." That's a problem. The SS was right to check it out, 14 or not, because someday one of those apparently bogus threats will turn out to be real.

Plus if she hates Bush, she clearly supports the Al-Qaeda terrorism methodology and a 14 year old still makes a great suicide bomber. Hell, she's almost too old to be a suicide bomber. She should be married and have callused cheeks from her daily beatings by now!

Running the risk of falling into Llava's sarchasm, I hope everyone realises that there are probably millions of people in this country who want Bush dead. The SS just showed themselves to be incredibly incompetent to spend resources on a 14 year old who couldn't possibly have the resources to assassinate the most closely guarded US presidents in history. The ones that are actively seeking an assassination and may actually present a threat are sure as hell not making a god damned MySpace about it.

Its the job of the Secret Service to investigate legitimate threats against the president. Even an idiot like Bush can't be gunned down like he would deserve it, its just not proper behaviour.

Legitimate being the key word here. Anybody trying to tell me a 14 year old girl is legitimate enough a threat to be dragged out of a class room is clearly deluded. She certainly wouldn't have grabbed her high velocity sniper rifle after school and killed the president before she came home. How's she do that? Take the bus? Go hitchhiking to the White House? And those SS agent knew that. They were already at home. They could have easily waited and the educating effect for the child would have been the same.

They were assholes. Plain and simple.

Quote from: Tebonas on October 17, 2006, 02:07:58 AM

They were assholes. Plain and simple.

Ding, ding, ding. Winner.

Quote from: Roac on October 16, 2006, 07:23:35 PM

One further thought. They didn't do anything harsh to this kid. They took her out of class for a 15 minute talk. Her life isn't ruined. She got embarrassed, but she should be.

Embarrassed? The feds and president were so scared that they sent the Secret Service after her, she's probably the coolest kid in school right now. Actually, I doubt that, she probably started out at the computer nerd rank but this has got to bump her up quite a few notches on the social ladder. She's rebel bad-girl now.

Quote

I wish the rest of the government were this thorough when dealing with potential threats. Maybe a few of the 9/11 guys would've been picked up. Maybe Katrina wouldn't have happened as it did, or at least been quite as bad. It would be nice if everyone took their responsibilities that seriously, but also exercised enough common sense to realize when they've caught a red herring and need to move on.

Hey, I think you figured out the point, finally. They're all commando on some girl's myspace page but completely inept at anything actually threatening american lives.

Quote from: Miasma on October 17, 2006, 06:30:12 AM

The feds and president were so scared that they sent the Secret Service after her, she's probably the coolest kid in school right now.

The President doesn't have anything to do with investigations like that, nor is it "fear". This is SOP.

Quote

Actually, I doubt that, she probably started out at the computer nerd rank but this has got to bump her up quite a few notches on the social ladder. She's rebel bad-girl now.

Getting talked to by cops makes for an interesting story that people want to gossip over, but the cool factor doesn't extend to wanting to repeat or copycat the event. Everyone's going to want to know about it, but no one is going to think "wow, I should try that".

Kids aren't that stupid in your world ?

Quote from: Ironwood on October 17, 2006, 08:36:06 AM

Kids aren't that stupid in your world ?

What, in yours when one gets arrested, they all decide to do it for kicks? Must suck to be a shop owner in Scotland, but the teachers gotta have it easy.

Personally, I'll still expecting to hear of the dead kid that got waterboarded by the lockerroom jocks. You know, since its not torture or dangerous or anything.

Quote from: Roac on October 17, 2006, 08:43:42 AM

Quote from: Ironwood on October 17, 2006, 08:36:06 AM

Kids aren't that stupid in your world ?

What, in yours when one gets arrested, they all decide to do it for kicks? Must suck to be a shop owner in Scotland, but the teachers gotta have it easy.

Nah, not all of them. But I'd have to be a total fucking retard to say that 'no one' would think on doing it for attention. Kids, they hate attention.

The Shop Owner is actually a pretty good analogy. Look at Shoplifting.

Quote from: Engels on October 17, 2006, 08:43:52 AM

Personally, I'll still expecting to hear of the dead kid that got waterboarded by the lockerroom jocks. You know, since its not torture or dangerous or anything.

Quote from: Ironwood on October 17, 2006, 08:46:13 AM

No, the 'cool' behavior we were talking about isn't shoplifting (look, free shit I wanted!), it's getting caught. How many people do you know shoplift and wave the merchandise infront of a camera/clerk/whatever so they can go to jail and spend time with cops? You said that was the cool part. I don't know anyone who thinks being interrogated/arrested is a fun way to spend the afternoon.

Well, maybe that Jon Benet confessor guy. So that's one.

I cannot fault the secret service. This was their job you cannot joke around about doing fatal things to our commander in chief no matter how much you dislike them. Their main job and function is to track down threats to the president. Even if they are pretty clearly just a kid playing around they can't truly know until they talk to them.

Their 15 minute talk was probably more of a put a realization of consequences into the kids head and give her a bit of a scare so that actually starting any kind of more serious process would not be needed.

You may have the right to say things like this but the secret services WILL check up on you if you do it in a public forum or site.

kaid