Burning Crusade Goes Beta, NDA Lifted

[Morfiend]

So, the expansion went from alpha to beta today, and they have lifted the NDA. I have been in for about a month. I love it, there is some really great stuff. The Blood Elf and Dranie starting areas are very well done.

Feel free to ask questions here and ill try and answer them.

[bhodi]

how much do rogues suck? really?

[Morfiend]

Not as much as you would think.

I havent leveled that much, but at 60 with full bloodfang (hemo specced) I can solo level 63 mobs with no downtime. The cap was recently raised to 67, so we dont know about the level 70 PVP and such yet. Its defenetly not the doom and gloom everyone is predicting on the forums. Also, it remains to be seen how the new Resiliance stat hurts us.

[Morat20]

I've seen a screenshot or two that indicates a full BM-specced pet is insane. Huge bonus to armor, damage, and surviveability. Not sure if they'll scale to raids, but apparently it's totally viable again.

[Morfiend]

Hunter talents where only just implemented, like a few days before the talents where released on the main page. Yes, hunters are NASTY again. Like I said in the other thread, I really think hunters are in line for a bunch of nerfs. They are just to badass. And yes, the new BM stuff rocks.

[Jobu]

How are the new stats that replace crit percentages? Does it feel nerfed?

Are the new dungeons cool?

I've heard second hand rumors (a friend's guildmate said on vent...) that the loot dropping higher up is pretty nice, in some cases equivalent to MC purples. Is that true?

[Merusk]

Got any links/ pics of the new items at the higher levels?  How does it actually compare to the current T1/2/3 gear vs the rampant speculation we've been giving?   Noticed any significant changes due to the Stamina budget cost decrease?

[bhodi]

[Morfiend]

The loot is insane. Level 61 quests give almost MC equilivant loot. I had to stop and consider upgrading some of my teir 2 set with quest loot.

I really didnt like the first zone, Hellfire Paninsula, it feels like the Barrens+Blastlands, and is HUGE. The other zones are just awesome though.

[Morfiend]

Got any links/ pics of the new items at the higher levels?  How does it actually compare to the current T1/2/3 gear vs the rampant speculation we've been giving?   Noticed any significant changes due to the Stamina budget cost decrease?

I dont have any pics of loot, but Ill try and take some after I get the new client installed. I figure most people will have replaced the majority of their raiding gear by 65/67, but I think you could last in teir 2/3 up to 70 or so. I figure most hardcore raiders will have replaced 70% of their gear by level 70, and the reszt very soon after.

[Morat20]

Hunter talents where only just implemented, like a few days before the talents where released on the main page. Yes, hunters are NASTY again. Like I said in the other thread, I really think hunters are in line for a bunch of nerfs. They are just to badass. And yes, the new BM stuff rocks.

I've wondered how much of that is real and how much is ingrained response. I know with the BM spec, there's an ingrained feel that BM-spec is inferior. It's not an "end-game" or "Raiding spec" -- pulling BM up to bar with MM post-60 might feel overpowered, but isn't. (In fact, there was one retard on the FOH boards -- a hunter, no less -- screaming because MM and Survival weren't as "improved" as BM and EVERYONE specs MM or Survival, so it was wasted effort.)

 But then again, until I actually see a BM-spec versus a MM spec at 60+, it's really hard to tell. I think the crit resistance thing is going to be key to whether hunters are overpowered. We have a lot of crit boosts, and a lot of procs off of crits (our or our pets) and I can't tell how big a difference crit-resistance is going to make for that.

I do think perma-frenzied .54 speed pets are going to rape casters in PvP unless there's some jewels to resist spell interruption.

[bhodi]

Druids got some SERIOUS loving, especially moonkin. The talent tree changes were everything they hoped for, and more. I hope rogues get the same...

[Driakos]

how much do rogues suck? really?

I was depressed when I first got my rogue copied over to the Alpha server.  The first thing I did was spec 41 in combat, and run out to Hellfire.  The very first mob I fought, when I hit Gouge, dodged it.

I hearthed back to Ironforge, and respecced to Mutilate.  /bugged Surprise Attacks.

They've fixed it since.  Was just funny that the very first chance Surprise attacks had, it failed. People are SkyIsFalling the Rogue situation.  I just wish the Combat and Sub 41's were more enticing.

[Driakos]

How are the new stats that replace crit percentages? Does it feel nerfed?

Are the new dungeons cool?

I've heard second hand rumors (a friend's guildmate said on vent...) that the loot dropping higher up is pretty nice, in some cases equivalent to MC purples. Is that true?

I've only run Hellfire Ramparts and The Slave Pens (Coilfang Reservoir).  Hellfire Ramparts felt like doing a beefed up wing of Scarlet Monastery.  It was short.  Fight evil orcs up and down the walls.  Then 3 bosses in quick succession.  Nice loot. 

The Slave Pens had some interesting fights from the trash mobs.  Different types of naga, throwing different spells.  Some packs would have a Mind Controller.  Some packs would Frost Nova, run and nuke from a distance.  Some packs would Fear and DoT.   Didn't see much loot in here.

The world drop greens are insane at the moment.  I've gotten a few level 60 two-hand axes (green) that are almost as good as The Unstoppable Force.  30 less high end damage, but same min damage, and better stats.

[Driakos]

Hunter talents where only just implemented, like a few days before the talents where released on the main page. Yes, hunters are NASTY again. Like I said in the other thread, I really think hunters are in line for a bunch of nerfs. They are just to badass. And yes, the new BM stuff rocks.

They are definitely seem like they need a nerf.  The Beast Within is an IWin button.  Combine that with the passive 20% pet/hunter attack speed talent, it's lights out in PVP.  The regen on pets is out of control at the moment too.  I was solo'ing Dire Maul (north) with Humar (60).  As long as I keep one trapped, kill the ogre mage first, the regen is so fast, they can't kill the cat.

They hotfixed the health/armor scaling soon after it was patched in.  Higher level hunters were rolling around with pets with insane stats.  I am going to be nerfed.

Shaman were nerfed about 3 weeks ago.  Dual Wield Rockbiter/Windfury was brutal.  Now it's been toned down to Rockbiter just adding a random amount of damage per hit (plus threat).  Rockbiter no longer adds attack power.  Before, I could put rockbiter on both weapons, and even with my Int/Stam gear I had 2.2k attack power.  Windfury procs two extra hits, but they are Yellow Damage/specials.  They wont proc enchantments or weapon effects.  Double Flametongue weapons seem best for sustained DPS now.

[Morat20]

They are definitely seem like they need a nerf.  The Beast Within is an IWin button.  Combine that with the passive 20% pet/hunter attack speed talent, it's lights out in PVP.  The regen on pets is out of control at the moment too.  I was solo'ing Dire Maul (north) with Humar (60).  As long as I keep one trapped, kill the ogre mage first, the regen is so fast, they can't kill the cat.

Only against a moron. Any ability is an IWIN against those.  All you have to do is make him move. Get into his deadzone, get out of his range, whatever. Our DPS -- even with the TBW buff -- on the move is totally crappy. Deliberately so.

The Serpent Speed talent is good -- I expect that one to get toned down a bit, actually -- but really a BM specced hunter is only going to be a problem for casters in PvP -- too much spell interrupts. Warlocks should still be able to load us with enough DoTs to make it mutual destruction, and warriors should still be able to close and just eat us alive (no more FD/trap, and trap is a 1.5 second interruptable cast). If you're BM specced to get TBW, you have no scattershot or improved wingclip. All you have is the pet's intimidate. And I don't care how buff me and my pet are with TBW, we still suck in melee and aren't plate-wearers.

Pet health shouldn't regen in combat -- focus regen should be insane with the right stats (100% bonus for improved regen, and 50 focus for each crit with Go for the Throat).

I'd prefer to see what a MM or Survival specced hunter can do first -- they have even nastier PvP tricks than a BM.

[Morat20]

I'd really also like to hear from other classes -- so far one of the Hunters in alpha has been pretty talky, but I haven't seen as much out of other classes. Everything looks overpowered for people used to level 60 -- from the descriptions I've heard, it seems like it's back to the pre-60 levels -- I used to offtank everything but bosses with my BM pet before level 60. (And even some bosses, depending). That we can do it again isn't surprising. I suspect the pet scaling is twitchy as hell.

If you're an seriously geared hunter, your pet is going to be seriously geared as well -- even if it's lower level than you. (Other than hitpoints). It ought to make leveling up a lower level pet easier, though.

When your pet was tanking DM North, what level were you? What's your gear like?

I do agree -- Hunters are going to get some nerfs. (They already have, actually -- some of the recent changes toned down some of it). I don't think TBW is going to be changed, I suspect Serpent's Speed will have only minimal changes, and I suspect pet scaling will remain roughly as it is. I think the new status quo about pets is that Hunter level is just as important as pet level in terms of their abilities. I certainly hope a few other classes get some more buffs.

[Chenghiz]

Is it confirmed that traps have a cast time?

[Morat20]

Is it confirmed that traps have a cast time?

I think so. 1.5 seconds was what I heard. I look forward to the mass chaos of Viper traps (although that'll just make poison-cleansing totems that much more useful).

[Driakos]

Only against a moron. Any ability is an IWIN against those.  All you have to do is make him move. Get into his deadzone, get out of his range, whatever. Our DPS -- even with the TBW buff -- on the move is totally crappy. Deliberately so.

Wing Clip, and moving works great.  They can't slow you down with anything.

The Serpent Speed talent is good -- I expect that one to get toned down a bit, actually -- but really a BM specced hunter is only going to be a problem for casters in PvP -- too much spell interrupts. Warlocks should still be able to load us with enough DoTs to make it mutual destruction, and warriors should still be able to close and just eat us alive (no more FD/trap, and trap is a 1.5 second interruptable cast). If you're BM specced to get TBW, you have no scattershot or improved wingclip. All you have is the pet's intimidate. And I don't care how buff me and my pet are with TBW, we still suck in melee and aren't plate-wearers.

Intimidate works well enough.  Freezing trap, frost trap, explosion trap don't have cast times (at least a week ago).  I haven't tried other traps, nor leveled high enough to get some of the new ones.  You can use them in combat.

Pet health shouldn't regen in combat -- focus regen should be insane with the right stats (100% bonus for improved regen, and 50 focus for each crit with Go for the Throat).

My pet is pretty indestructable at the moment to a single melee target (often more).  The regen definitely needs to be fixed.  I haven't played in a week on BC, might be reduced already.  I /dueled a Shaman, told the cat to attack, and had the Shaman try to kill it.  He couldn't.  Shaman was 61, Pet was 60.  Pet would get down to around a quarter life sometimes, if he got enough crits at once (or fire nova went off simultaneously with windfury).  Pet would just regen a huge chunk of life.

I'd prefer to see what a MM or Survival specced hunter can do first -- they have even nastier PvP tricks than a BM.

Yes, there's all kinds of fun stuff in the other trees as well.  The Beast Within is still stupid good at the moment.

[Morat20]

Wing Clip, and moving works great.  They can't slow you down with anything.

Wing clip is one of the weakest snares in the game. I don't think you can spec 41 in BM and still get improved wing clip -- and if you can, you give up a lot of DPS and useful stuff to do it. I might be all big and red, but once you make me move even an inch I'm stuck on arcane shot. I can't be rooted or snared for 18seconds, but you can jam up my dead zone and force me to keep moving -- I'm not going to Arcane Shot someone to death, even with a pet. Admittedly, your best bet is to simply run out of range while I blow my 18 seconds of awesome trying to keep up. Then again, my pets have dash for exactly that.

I suspect the PvP tactics against BM specced hunters will consist of keeping the hunter polymorphed or feared while you nuke the pet. (Can't TBW while feared, I'm sure).

Intimidate works well enough.  Freezing trap, frost trap, explosion trap don't have cast times (at least a week ago).  I haven't tried other traps, nor leveled high enough to get some of the new ones.

Cooldown on intimidate is too long, and traps should have cast times. If they don't, then that's probably going to change.

My pet is pretty indestructable at the moment to a single melee target (often more).  The regen definitely needs to be fixed.  I haven't played in a week on BC, might be reduced already.  I /dueled a Shaman, told the cat to attack, and had the Shaman try to kill it.  He couldn't.  Shaman was 61, Pet was 60.  Pet would get down to around a quarter life sometimes, if he got enough crits at once (or fire nova went off simultaneously with windfury).  Pet would just regen a huge chunk of life.

What level are you? Still, that does seem broken -- perhaps the pet health regen isn't working right in combat. Health regen in combat is called "heal pet".

Yes, there's all kinds of fun stuff in the other trees as well.  The Beast Within is still stupid good at the moment.

I think that's just because TBW is pretty obvious. Some of the other nasty tricks are either more complicated ("This plus this and that") or situational, or depend on stuff that's not known. (Like how good the Warlock's new pets are, or the Ice Mage's pet, etc). If the 'lock pets are as good as mine, I'm still dead versus a 'lock. If the Mage's pet is decent, he can probably tie up my pet and actually do better against me than a fire spec -- especially as I won't have Hawk's Eye anymore.

I think that the biggest change here is that pet's look to be moving from "tiny and ignorable DoT" to "serious issue".

[Xanthippe]

Nice to hear hunters get a boost.  Hope the incoming nerfage isn't overkill.

As far as equipment scalability goes, currently warriors seem to benefit far, far more from being OP with great kit than hunters do.  Does that hold in BC as well?

[Driakos]

Wing clip is one of the weakest snares in the game. I don't think you can spec 41 in BM and still get improved wing clip -- and if you can, you give up a lot of DPS and useful stuff to do it. I might be all big and red, but once you make me move even an inch I'm stuck on arcane shot. I can't be rooted or snared for 18seconds, but you can jam up my dead zone and force me to keep moving -- I'm not going to Arcane Shot someone to death, even with a pet. Admittedly, your best bet is to simply run out of range while I blow my 18 seconds of awesome trying to keep up. Then again, my pets have dash for exactly that.

I suspect the PvP tactics against BM specced hunters will consist of keeping the hunter polymorphed or feared while you nuke the pet. (Can't TBW while feared, I'm sure).

Arcane shot is a lot better.  It's a lot more expensive, but it's better.  It scales in damage based on your Ranged Attack Power now.  Not really viable to kill somebody unless they let you kite them.

What level are you? Still, that does seem broken -- perhaps the pet health regen isn't working right in combat. Health regen in combat is called "heal pet".

It has to be broken.  It is just too much at the moment.  My hunter is only level 61, pet is still 60.

I think that's just because TBW is pretty obvious. Some of the other nasty tricks are either more complicated ("This plus this and that") or situational, or depend on stuff that's not known. (Like how good the Warlock's new pets are, or the Ice Mage's pet, etc). If the 'lock pets are as good as mine, I'm still dead versus a 'lock. If the Mage's pet is decent, he can probably tie up my pet and actually do better against me than a fire spec -- especially as I won't have Hawk's Eye anymore.

I think that the biggest change here is that pet's look to be moving from "tiny and ignorable DoT" to "serious issue".

The Ice Elemental is a lot better than it was.  You had to tell it to cast Frost Bolt each time.  It had a reagent, and a summon time.  Now it is instant cast, no reagent, but only lasts for 45s.  It will auto attack with Frost Bolts though.  The best part, is you can tell it where to Frost Nova, like with a Flamestrike cursor.  So you have the elemental Frost Nova at range, and go go Ice Lance spam.  Frost mages are going to be rough(er) in PVP.

[Morat20]

It has to be broken.  It is just too much at the moment.  My hunter is only level 61, pet is still 60.

That health regen does sound broken. Did you have spirit bond in your spec? That's the only health regen pets should get in combat, and that's (maxed) 2% per 10 seconds. Fully buffed at 60, I've got maybe 5k health -- so we're talking 100 health every 10 seconds, or 10 health a tick. Shouldn't be enough to overcome a shaman.

Has to be a bug.

[Jobu]

Which crafting items should we start hoarding to gouge people powerlevelling jewelcrafting or any new factions?

[Rasix]

Anyone have experience with the new honor revamp.  IE using honor to purchase gear rather than ranks determining what you can buy? I can't seem to find any info on it.  Maybe it's not even  BC item, but I thought it was.

[Merusk]

Which crafting items should we start hoarding to gouge people powerlevelling jewelcrafting or any new factions?

I know for certain, high level gems and raw ores.   Last rumor was that Jewelcrafters would need 2 ore for each use of their gem-refining skill.

404 error

Broken link, gives me a 404.    Thanks for trying though.  Now that I'm home from work I can hunt around myself  :-D

[Ironwood]

Hey, can you tell us about Priests in the expansion and how the whole decursing thing is working out ?

Dunno why, the question just jumped into my head this morning.

[Xanthippe]

As a lazy hunter, I've yet to get my class epic bow/spear (despite having the thingie to do it).  I went to Winterspring and got my ass kicked by the demon there 3x (solo).  Either I'd outrun him and he'd run back or he'd get to close and demonize me.  So I put it on the back burner for a while and then sorta forgot about it.

How good is that bow/spear going to be and for how long?  I'm currently using a Striker's Mark and a AV spear, which, while not nearly as good, seem to be sufficient for my pvp/farming purposes.  Should I even bother with the class epics?

I guess the same question applies to my priest and Benediction.  I've not done much of anything on her since hitting 60 other than tailoring, grinding a little rep, and doing a little pvp.  She's a tailor first and a priest second.

[Morat20]

As a lazy hunter, I've yet to get my class epic bow/spear (despite having the thingie to do it).  I went to Winterspring and got my ass kicked by the demon there 3x (solo).  Either I'd outrun him and he'd run back or he'd get to close and demonize me.  So I put it on the back burner for a while and then sorta forgot about it.

How good is that bow/spear going to be and for how long?  I'm currently using a Striker's Mark and a AV spear, which, while not nearly as good, seem to be sufficient for my pvp/farming purposes.  Should I even bother with the class epics?

I guess the same question applies to my priest and Benediction.  I've not done much of anything on her since hitting 60 other than tailoring, grinding a little rep, and doing a little pvp.  She's a tailor first and a priest second.

I'm a bit curious too. I'm a dwarven hunter. I don't use freaking bows, dammit. I am proud that my Xbow and Bow skills are 1. I'm currently using Blastershot launcher, and I'm second in line for the leaf (we just downed Domo for the first time last week -- but frankly our strategy for that fight sucks balls, but since it finally succeeded the raid leader is going to keep using it until it becomes obvious). I'm torn on the leaf. I might take the polearm part, but the bow is iffy. I don't WANT to use a damn bow.

I did see some screenies that indicate the bow is getting a boost for TBC, but that might just be the itemization changes for Hunters. 

[Phred]

Anyone have experience with the new honor revamp.  IE using honor to purchase gear rather than ranks determining what you can buy? I can't seem to find any info on it.  Maybe it's not even  BC item, but I thought it was.

Supposedly theres stuff on the vendors in the officer's lounge which everyone can get in now but I haven't checked it out yet. There's a ton of vendor reward stuff spread around I have seen. There's a vendor in the first hub city that has items you buy with tokens from hard mode dungeons, and honor hold, the first alliance city, has a faction vendor as well with some nice stuff. Also saw some stuff in the swamp zone (Z something, forget now) that you buy with tokens you get from doing the pvp quest. Every zone I've been in has some kind of pvp thing in it, like the towers in EPL.

There's a million quests in hellfire, and the z swamp zone has a ton too. Doesn't look like I'll run out of quests while leveling.

[Phred]

As a lazy hunter, I've yet to get my class epic bow/spear (despite having the thingie to do it).  I went to Winterspring and got my ass kicked by the demon there 3x (solo).  Either I'd outrun him and he'd run back or he'd get to close and demonize me.  So I put it on the back burner for a while and then sorta forgot about it.

How good is that bow/spear going to be and for how long?  I'm currently using a Striker's Mark and a AV spear, which, while not nearly as good, seem to be sufficient for my pvp/farming purposes.  Should I even bother with the class epics?

I guess the same question applies to my priest and Benediction.  I've not done much of anything on her since hitting 60 other than tailoring, grinding a little rep, and doing a little pvp.  She's a tailor first and a priest second.

I'm a bit curious too. I'm a dwarven hunter. I don't use freaking bows, dammit. I am proud that my Xbow and Bow skills are 1. I'm currently using Blastershot launcher, and I'm second in line for the leaf (we just downed Domo for the first time last week -- but frankly our strategy for that fight sucks balls, but since it finally succeeded the raid leader is going to keep using it until it becomes obvious). I'm torn on the leaf. I might take the polearm part, but the bow is iffy. I don't WANT to use a damn bow.

I did see some screenies that indicate the bow is getting a boost for TBC, but that might just be the itemization changes for Hunters. 

I'm suspecting faster weapons will be as good if not better than slow ones now with all the changes they've made. As I don't have a working dps meter in beta it's impossible to say for sure but there's no more shot rotation and aimed shot is useless except as an opener. Basically you're relying on arcane shot, which doesn't seem to be effected by bow dmg at all, just atk power. Until I get steady shot at 68 it's really kind of boring after having been in the groove with a shot rotation for so long.

I've banked my crossbow of smiting and dug out the qiraj musket I shelved because it used to suck. Now I get 1k crits off arcane shot it doesn't seem to suck anymore.

[Merusk]

Arcane is 20% of your RAP, so yes it's unaffected by weapon speed & damage.  Those stats will still affect Multishot and Aimedshot, but your bow DPS, Crit % and RAP look like your biggest concern now.

The curse gaming site has an item database at (I think) www.cursebeta.com  You can mine it for info on the new bows/ guns/ etc. 

From the links there, it looked like the Epic bow (Upped to 54.4 DPS iirc) will last you until ~65 where it becomes comparable with blues. The X-bow of Smiting (55.6 DPS iirc) up to 67 or 68.  I think most of the stuff seen has been quest and world drops, so no idea what the L70 stuff looks like, but they did have an x-bow for HWL/ GM .. I just didn't take a look because it was late when I found the thread linking me to Curse.

The are 2 very large threads on the official hunter forums with all kinds of good info and links (which is where I found the curse beta site). It may be up to part 3 now, because it was P2 and 10 pages when I saw it at 10:30est last night.   He discusses mainly Beast Mastery changes, but also gives some insight into the way the UI is changing for stat display and how crit/ hit rating and resiliance work.

[Driakos]

I'm a bit curious too. I'm a dwarven hunter. I don't use freaking bows, dammit. I am proud that my Xbow and Bow skills are 1. I'm currently using Blastershot launcher, and I'm second in line for the leaf (we just downed Domo for the first time last week -- but frankly our strategy for that fight sucks balls, but since it finally succeeded the raid leader is going to keep using it until it becomes obvious). I'm torn on the leaf. I might take the polearm part, but the bow is iffy. I don't WANT to use a damn bow.

I did see some screenies that indicate the bow is getting a boost for TBC, but that might just be the itemization changes for Hunters. 

There is a Hemit Nesingwary quest in Nagland that you can get at level 65.  The gun (green) he rewards you with is crazy.  59DPS or something abouts.  My guess is that the level 62-63 items are comparable/better than the hunter quest epic.

[Phred]

I'm a bit curious too. I'm a dwarven hunter. I don't use freaking bows, dammit. I am proud that my Xbow and Bow skills are 1. I'm currently using Blastershot launcher, and I'm second in line for the leaf (we just downed Domo for the first time last week -- but frankly our strategy for that fight sucks balls, but since it finally succeeded the raid leader is going to keep using it until it becomes obvious). I'm torn on the leaf. I might take the polearm part, but the bow is iffy. I don't WANT to use a damn bow.

I did see some screenies that indicate the bow is getting a boost for TBC, but that might just be the itemization changes for Hunters. 

There is a Hemit Nesingwary quest in Nagland that you can get at level 65.  The gun (green) he rewards you with is crazy.  59DPS or something abouts.  My guess is that the level 62-63 items are comparable/better than the hunter quest epic.

If you can stomach xbows, which is what my dwarf hunter uses, because guns used to suck so bad, there's a quest reward xbow at L61 in hellfire. Not sure if you can get the quest earlier that's when I found the guys. It's 53 dps 2.9 speed so is pretty damn good, definately as good or better than rhok.

At least an xbow looks vaguely like a gun. Plus I got to use the 18 slot quiver from the rhok quest with it which was a bonus.