Useless Conversation

[Sky]

Depends on the problem. In reality, I rarely re-image a computer. Public computers are locked down and are basically 're-imaged' every time they reboot. Staff is pretty knowledgable. Only trouble spots are a couple non-professional staff and windows pcs (because they love them some surfing and I haven't been allowed to set a policy on that yet). Still, imaging in those situations is rare.

I do actually fix things, I'd just prefer to wallpaper and get on with my projects :)

[RhyssaFireheart]

Well in Sky's case though, what he's doing does make a certain amount of sense.  In a public setting like a library, where the systems are available for use by a very diverse group of people and you do have all data on a server rather than being stored locally, re-imaging would be quicker and make more sense to fix issues that can be solved by that method.  Troubleshooting can be a hassle when you have folks waiting to use the system that could be back up and running in a much shorter period of time.

In a corporate environment, where theorectically each system has one user, then going through the troubleshooting process first makes more sense because that one person can wait and/or use a loaner if available.  Or even log onto a touchdown system for mobile users if you've got them while IT works on the troubleshooting.  

At least that was my reasoning back when I was doing support.

[bhodi]

re-imaging is standard practice for desktops. Hell, they'd be put into kiosk mode if they could still do their function at the same time.

[Engels]

For me, it varies from situation to situation. Some of my 'customers' have highly configured desktops that are a royal pain to get back to where they like them. Its worth spending a few hours troubleshooting something because a re-image actually might mean days of configuring.

The one case where I'm always in favor of reimaging is a stubborn virus. If it took you 6 tries with Malwarebytes, had to manually edit the registry, had to wipe out the system restore files and do a safe scan from a linux disk or some shit just to get rid of all -visible- symptoms, its time to nuke that shit from orbit, cuz  you just don't know what else has gone wrong inside the OS.

[RhyssaFireheart]

For me, it varies from situation to situation. Some of my 'customers' have highly configured desktops that are a royal pain to get back to where they like them. Its worth spending a few hours troubleshooting something because a re-image actually might mean days of configuring.

In cases like that though, wouldn't it make sense to keep a ghost image on file for that person?  Because then all you have to do is reimage with that and you should be set with some other tweaking and (minor) configuration, right?

[Lantyssa]

Keeping 200 images makes it not worth the time or effort, especially for machines mostly under their control which might have data that changes from month to month.  Far easier to make them have periodic back ups for disaster, but generally just trouble-shoot and fix their current issue.

[Engels]

Pretty much what Lantyssa said. Its more about the day to day accumulation of data, email contacts, specific licensed products that require re-registering, etc, rather than a stock software build. I do have one group that absolutely requires every single microsoft product known to man installed, so I do keep a 'special' image for their machines, but on the whole, each faculty and grad student is a special flower.

[Minvaren]

Where I work, I'm the IT department.  3 offices, 200 PCs, 25 servers.

All software needed by all users is loaded on all PCs.  User desktops are locked down via Group Policy (by job role by office) as to what they can run, and roaming profiles with folder redirection handles the critical data security and backup.  Proxy server (with AV scan) and OpenDNS tells them where they can go and filters what they get.  In the rare event a virus/trojan actually makes it onto the PC, it doesn't have permission to install or execute and the Antivirus comes along behind, scoops it up, and carries it away.

I generally only reimage PCs when there's a hardware failure, and all of them every 3-6 months for patches and new software needed.  I fix any issues as I find them and build the fix into the next set of images for each office.  After several years on the same base images, there's rarely anything of importance that comes up anymore.

This strategy likely wouldn't work as well in a more diverse environment or for someone who does contract/home PC support, but it's been a lifesaver for me thus far.

[Lantyssa]

In that kind of locked down environment with Active Directory or equivalent it'd work exceptionally well.  Computer labs or other public machines, too.  But that's not the kind of environment I'm in, which is why the "format it!" solution makes me roll my eyes.  Especially since they didn't have images.  It'd mean a complete reinstall.

[Sky]

We don't have a windows server (OSX and just got in the new one to play with), so Group Policy is out. I could probably cobble something with LGPs, but MS SteadyState for XP machines is pretty awesome.

Might have to break down and put in a baby server when we move to W7 because MS ended SS support after all these years.

Lant, don't you have some basic images with the default programs, settings and patches? I haven't installed OSX from a disc in a long time. I wish windows played as nice with imaging, or maybe I just haven't learned the proper tricks, since we have relatively few winderboxen.

[Lantyssa]

Usually I have a volume license copy of the OS and Office.  Whatever else they want I grab the disk for then.  Since any given lab may want different mixtures of each it's easier to do it that way.  I've slipstreamed a few disks with patches.  They're going to need patching anyways, so using the latest service pack doesn't really add that much more time.

Given most of our machines come pre-installed, it's not even an issue.  I think I've done maybe four installations in the last year.

[Minvaren]

We don't have a windows server (OSX and just got in the new one to play with), so Group Policy is out. I could probably cobble something with LGPs, but MS SteadyState for XP machines is pretty awesome.

In a pinch and with a bit of legwork, Samba should be able to emulate a PDC and provide GP support...   

[Merusk]

You guys would hate admining an AutoDesk-rich environment.  Locking down the PC means the software just plain won't work right. (In Xp it meant it wouldn't even startup fairly often.)  Each individual user has to have admin access to system files and directories.  You can lock certain things down, like hardware installation but printers, sys files and even driver installs need to be open for the user.

It's also one of those environments Engles mentions where reimaging instead of troubleshooting means the user loses at least half a day of time as they have to re-customize their workspace.  Since that's lost billable time most places, it gets upper management upset really quick.

[Chimpy]

Nuking AutoDesk HQ from orbit would definitely be something I would pay to see.

[Merusk]

You and me both. 

Then I'd have to learn Microstation/ Bentley or Solidworks, though. Nahhh.

[Morat20]

Damn, I'm getting really annoyed by my poor performance on technical screens. I'm good at my job, but I can't help but wonder if the rather narrow focus I've had the last few years and the very informal nature of my current group has fucked me in terms of finding a job.

Perhaps I'm just unlucky, and it doesn't help that I'm visual and I keep getting phone screens -- but I seem to keep getting into interviews where either the questions are on older shit on my resume (stuff from five or six years back) or it involves really specific bits and pieces I've either not had the need to use, or not had the need to discuss in years.

It's frustrating me. I should probably go check my resume again and make sure my older skills are definetly shown as older -- my C++ is rusty 'cause I haven't used it in 7 years, and C# I haven't used in 3. And I certainly haven't had occasion to try to fumble out the difference between this and that, I just know when to use them.

Articulating, on the fly, the difference between oh...inner and outer joins or between classes and structs is just hard for me. I know what they are, how to use them, when to use them -- but trying to describe that over the phone when I'm already nervous about an interview and all I can think of is "I haven't used an OO language in 18 months, and half our DB's were written by programmers so it's all outer joins and ...."

Then again, I've only had like three screenings like that. Maybe I should study a bit and brush up a bit.

[Lantyssa]

That's going to be my concern.  I transpose all that stuff in my head, so I use reference books.  I know the general syntax, I can write 95% of the stuff down, but if I'm not using it every day a reference book or a quick peek at the internet will be called for.

[Morat20]

That's going to be my concern.  I transpose all that stuff in my head, so I use reference books.  I know the general syntax, I can write 95% of the stuff down, but if I'm not using it every day a reference book or a quick peek at the internet will be called for.

We switch languages here all the time. Get moved from project to project. We live on reference books. I've spent the last 10 years living in a world where knowing "where to look" was a good chunk of it. The rest of it was the ability to learn quickly, and to distill problems and design elements down.

I mean, I got asked "I have class A and class B. I do B.set(10) A.add(B), B.Set(15), A.add(B), the a.print() -- how would you write a.print() to get that data?

My answer is I'd do a foreach -- the language in question doesn't have 'foreach' but basically iterate through however class A was storing instances of B and then do a b.print() because surely whomever wrote B for you added a standard string output. Otherwise you'd be all B.getElement() whatever shit.

I don't think that was the answer he was looking for. Or "Say you included a library with a reserve and a release method which your class needed. How would you write the code for a function?"

Well, I'd wrapper function in a try/catch block to make sure the sucker was released (put it in the outside catch), do a try/catch on the reserver, and then the main body, then a release. Yeah, it's a lot of duplicate code -- but cut and paste is quick and easy and it's very readable. And we're big on "Readable" and "quick" here. Elegant is good, very good -- but elegant code that can't be read by someone else when you're not around is a problem. Or elegant code that takes six months to write rather than two.

Apparently there's a better way. I have no idea what, offhand, unless you really only needed to reserve/release when you created the instance -- but that didn't seem the be the case. I can't decide if I misunderstood him, or there's some subtle solution I'm not seeing.

[Fraeg]

Special happy fun time email I just received from our director

The following instructions are if Congress cannot approve a budget:

All employees (unless you are on prior approved leave for the entire day) must report to work on Monday morning,
no earlier than 8:00 am and no later than 12:00 pm.  If you cannot make it between these times, contact your
supervisor to arrange an alternate time.

On Monday morning, you will be here long enough to:

1) Perform an orderly shutdown. (This means things like leaving a message on your phone that the government
is not in operation; or turning off your computer)

2) Sign the furlough form that your supervisor will give you, and return the signed form to your supervisor.

3) Fill out Quicktime for your time worked.  For the rest of the time in the pay period, use the code for
furlough.  Verify your timesheet.  You will be paid for the time you work on Monday morning.

This should probably take you less than an hour (although you are authorized for up to 4 hours if you need it).

Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.  The powers that be have all recommended that we sign up for unemployment if we get a furlough (apparently the state I am in considers being furloughed as being unemployed).   The idea being if say we are furloughed for 3 weeks (like in 1995) that is a long time to not be bringing any money in. If we do get back pay, we will of course have to pay back the unemployment we receive.  However, if we don't receive back pay we can't retroactively apply for unemployment for those 3 weeks.   

Never applied for unemployment, sounds like a long wait in a long ass line :P   Checking over my finances, I chose a very poor time to buy some new shiny things 

[Chimpy]

Never applied for unemployment, sounds like a long wait in a long ass line :P   Checking over my finances, I chose a very poor time to buy some new shiny things 

You might not need to. Check your state employment office website, I know Illinois basically WANTS you to file online as it saves at least one data entry step.

[Merusk]

Kentucky and Ohio you have to file online.  If you go into the UE office, they have computers for you to file with. The employees are there to help those who can't use the machines or if you've screwed something up when filing.

[Fraeg]

cool thanks for the tip!

[Selby]

I don't think that was the answer he was looking for. Or "Say you included a library with a reserve and a release method which your class needed. How would you write the code for a function?"

Anyone who asks you to write code to them in a specific language over the phone is an asshole and wasting your time (how I see it).  Your description is spot on what I would want to hear, but I wouldn't ask anything so ridiculous.  You aren't in undergrad programming classes anymore, why should they ask such specific questions?

Special happy fun time email I just received from our director

My director sent out a note this afternoon saying basically "We're continuing to work for the time being, be here Monday normally.  Don't travel.  Don't spend unnecessarily on projects."  I wanted to ask what defined "unnecessarily" since I am right in the middle of a $1M upgrade project and am spending cash like it's going out of style...

[Morat20]

Anyone who asks you to write code to them in a specific language over the phone is an asshole and wasting your time (how I see it).  Your description is spot on what I would want to hear, but I wouldn't ask anything so ridiculous.  You aren't in undergrad programming classes anymore, why should they ask such specific questions?

He was obviously getting at the problem of reserve() without a release() (exception or error in main body) -- I've had that happen, it tends to lead to difficult to pin down memory leaks and other such issues -- but he apparently wanted something other than what I gave him.

It was mostly psuedo-code. I was a bit annoyed with the a.Add(B) stuff since my first thought was "Wait, does Java pass objects as references or copies?" -- that's sort of important if you add B to A, change B, add it to A again. Offhand, I couldn't remember -- it's one of those things I'd look up if I needed it. Which was what I THOUGHT his question was, but he veered me away from that. To me that seems like the major issue. You'd get completely different results depending on which it was.

I think I'm going to spend some of my downtime rereading some of the basics on .NET and C#, and maybe skimming some SQL stuff. I've gotten so focused on the limited applications we use (we've been in 'maintaince mode' too long, I haven't had to do anything novel in awhile) that I could use a refresher on the parts of it we don't use.

I still think code problems are stupid over the phone. Then again, I wasn't very fond of "What's the difference between private, public, internal, and protected variable in C#" either. I much prefer "Suppose you have X. What issues implementing X spring to mind? How would you approach the problem? What parts would you consider most difficult to address?"

[ghost]

I had no idea what I was getting into by bitching about IT folks, did I?   

[Rasix]

It's not like you're posting on a caber tossing enthusiasts board.

[Morat20]

It's not like you're posting on a caber tossing enthusiasts board.

Don't even talk to them about the idiots who throw telephone poles.

[Strazos]

I have to walk across the street to sign the furlough sheet because being in long-term language class is non-exempt. What a waste of time...but at least I walk to my classes, instead of driving in NoVA. 

[Furiously]

I think your bosses are trying to screw you out of hours. They "mention" the you can take up to four hours...

Because I believe the law is if you show up to work and they tell you to go home, you get paid for 4 hours work.

[Strazos]

Unpaid vacation averted. 

[ghost]

It's not like you're posting on a caber tossing enthusiasts board.

You're telling me that if you asked the right people the right questions around here that you wouldn't have 50 "experts" lined up in about five minutes? 

[Reg]

Don't say things like that. I don't think I could bear it if even more threads turned into tedious dueling text walls between self proclaimed experts.

[MuffinMan]

What's nice is when you're here for so long you can keep a rough list in your head of who knows what they're talking about and who's talking out of their ass. I assume it's much more useful for us lurkers since that means I don't ever get frustrated by interaction with the ass-talkers in discussion.

[Ironwood]

Yes, it's easy : They're all talking out their arse.

Except Arthur, who's looked it up, so is talking out of someone elses arse and, well, Trippy.  Who's always right.

[Chimpy]

Trust no one on the internet and you will be making the best choice 99% of the time.

Though Ironwood sells himself short, he is almost never talking out of his ass when he says "They are all cunts" about pretty much anyone.