Useless Conversation

[Cyrrex]

some questions involving "Why did you develop this in house, and yet have consultants doing all the work for the past 7 or so years, and what's your transition plan since you have no in-house expertise?",

Welcome to 99% of the corporate world right now. If they arent directly an IT or computer company themselves they farm that shit out. The IT department for most corporations is just to keep the desktops running and give them enough expertise that they can provide maintenance and house keeping. Anything else goes to a consultant.

One recent company my wife worked at. Their entire rules engine and database for one operation was created and run by one employee for like a decade. Then they downsized him. It wasnt until after letting him go they realized NO ONE else had any idea how to run the monster in the basement, and this was for a major health care corporation.

Hell CTO/CIO's even farm out the creation of their strategic plans to consultants now.

Hell, farming out IT was just the tip of the iceberg.  Business are all about outsourcing and offshoring everything they do that isn't their core business (read: almost everything).  Company I work for is slowly moving out HR and Procurement, too.  Sky's the limit.  There is no handover plan, because they never plan to take it back.

Of course, it doesn't work for shit and ends up being more expensive, but that's someone else's budget problem.

[Sand]

I see this as double billing, they are dinging my projects a flat % for overhead, and on top of that billing me again for labor time for people whose salary I am helping to pay for with my overhead cost.

It is. You've already budgeted for it and they are hitting you with an additional charge back.

[Morat20]

Hell, the recruiter/HR team that's handling it is at least sane. I told him the entire job offer seemed like  CF in the making -- handing off all this shit from consultants to in-house guys on Day 1 and trusting "that it hasn't really broken in the last couple of years" (the consultants do maintaince on it. Who knows how often they're having to fix shit? Not this guy!) to cover the new hires (IE: Me) to 'figure it out' before it fucking breaks is not a 'plan'.

Especially not when half of it is in Powerbuilder, something I've only heard of -- and isn't in the hiring description.

What that IS is a catastrophe which I'd be ground zero for, and be based entirely on luck whether it explodes and takes down a giant chunk of their Texas business before I can learn enough about their huge legacy system to properly fix it.

I told the recruiter I was uncomfortable with the position, the lack of a transition plan, and frankly the company's long-term prospects and that my previous "minimum salary" requirements were way too low for it. He told me given how much time I have left and the current market for software devs here, that despite the fact that he doesn't think they'd want to meet my new minimum -- just for them -- to hold out for it because frankly there's lots of jobs, I have plenty of time, and not to jump into the first offer when I wasn't struggling to pay bills.

Thank god. He also thanked me for my 'candor'. I told him "I wouldn't be so undiplomatic with them, but you match people to jobs. It doesn't do either of us any good for me to sugar-coat it.".

Apparently there is actually ANOTHER, supposedly real, technical screen. This was just apparently this guy's interview style. *rolls eyes*.

Speaking of: Anyone ever work for Amazon as a developer?

[Yegolev]

Of course, it doesn't work for shit and ends up being more expensive, but that's someone else's budget problem.

Apparently this depends a great deal on who the associated companies send to the negotiating table.

[naum]

Hell, farming out IT was just the tip of the iceberg.  Business are all about outsourcing and offshoring everything they do that isn't their core business (read: almost everything).  Company I work for is slowly moving out HR and Procurement, too.  Sky's the limit.  There is no handover plan, because they never plan to take it back.

Of course, it doesn't work for shit and ends up being more expensive, but that's someone else's budget problem.

Because it looks good in those spreadsheet cells, and a great bit of the cost is in the future where, by that time, management hopes to hop over|up to another rung or just marking the days until retirement. Somebody else will get to tackle the morass then. And a gigantic morass it will be as the company|corporation|organization will be entirely knowledge-less about the given business domain, with all the technical acumen in third party minds.

That's been the dream since the late 90's -- a VP at AMEX told me flat out that they really just desired to be a "branding" shell, farming out all processing to approved vendors and simply collecting "tolls" for stamping their company logo on top of it. That, in essence, is the GE "globalist" model, inculcated and infected via cross board membership in Fortune-500-ville…

…it's been 6+ years since I left the corporate world, sounds like not much has changed.

[Ironwood]

No, it has.  It's been 6 months for me and it has just got more and more vile.

[Merusk]

Oh how I love the first day on the job.  It's even more glorious when you realize that the plan of action has been "run at things at full-tilt while putting out fires." 

 

I don't know why I expected organization from a bunch of Architects, really.  On the upside I can go to Keenland race track with them all next Friday. Woo, ponies!

[Minvaren]

It's even more glorious when you realize that the plan of action has been "run at things at full-tilt while putting out fires." 

Wait, that's not the normal plan of action?   

[K9]

Well, it certainly is if you are a fireman

[Merusk]

It's even more glorious when you realize that the plan of action has been "run at things at full-tilt while putting out fires." 

Wait, that's not the normal plan of action?   

From what I remember of most other businesses, yes, it is.  However, for the last 7 years I was blessed by working for guys who had actual plans we set about implementing and working while also doing the "putting out fires" thing.   I'd forgotten that most folks just blindly stab at things then frantically try to play catch-up while saying, "Shit, I don't have time to write this crap down. Just throw the new guy at it and he'll catch on.  BTW we need more help because I'm so totally behind."

I really shouldn't complain because that inefficiency is what gets me a paycheck.. but it stabs at that "engineer" part of the brain.

[Selby]

Business are all about outsourcing and offshoring everything they do that isn't their core business (read: almost everything).

"We have great designs on proprietary technology that only a handful of people in the world could design and troubleshoot, but we have detailed build drawings.  Let's lay off the entire design group and leave just their manager who hasn't designed a new product in 5-6 years and just outsource all of it!"  I was part of that "design group" that got laid off because it was cheaper to just hire some contractor Indians temporarily to update schematics than it was to keep me around to design, build and test new hardware for the next generation systems.

[Murgos]

Edit:  It's amazing how much less soda with real sugar in it I can drink as compared to the HFCS stuff.  I drink half of a coke with real sugar and I'm done.

It is, though I'm scared to try in case it makes me take up the HFCS drinks again.  I really wish I didn't have to go out of my way to get Mexican Coke, as I could probably strike a balance if it was more readily available.

Most Coke from Mexico is made the same way ours is.  They do still make a limited amount with sugar cane though.  It's a shame that it isn't more readily available. 

You guys know that around passover you can get 'kosher for passover' coke in major markets, right?  In this case kosher for passover means made with cane sugar.

[ghost]

Oh how I love the first day on the job.  It's even more glorious when you realize that the plan of action has been "run at things at full-tilt while putting out fires."  

 

I don't know why I expected organization from a bunch of Architects, really.  On the upside I can go to Keenland race track with them all next Friday. Woo, ponies!

Wait, did you get a job in Lexington and I missed it?

Edit:  If so, congratulations.  Keeneland kicks ass.  It's been years since I went.

[Morat20]

Business are all about outsourcing and offshoring everything they do that isn't their core business (read: almost everything).

"We have great designs on proprietary technology that only a handful of people in the world could design and troubleshoot, but we have detailed build drawings.  Let's lay off the entire design group and leave just their manager who hasn't designed a new product in 5-6 years and just outsource all of it!"  I was part of that "design group" that got laid off because it was cheaper to just hire some contractor Indians temporarily to update schematics than it was to keep me around to design, build and test new hardware for the next generation systems.

That was pretty much the job they were speccing me. "We laid off/let go the entire original design team. We've paid consultants to maintain it. Now that we've been bailed out of our finanical hole, we'd like you to modernize it. Also, we're going to hand the whole fucking thing to you on Day 1 -- and no, the consultants won't be paid to talk you through it. Good luck if it breaks!". Add in a steady vibe of "We only have money 'cause we were bought out, and our business model is no less crappy!",

I told the recruiter to up my minimum salary 10k for that. Should have made it 15k, simple because the building is next to the Gallaria. (For you non-Houstonians -- we built a giant, VERY popular and crowded mall next to a freeway. Except the freeway narrows there, exchanges with another freeway, and generally that section is a fucking pain even outside of rush hour. At rush hour, it's a fucking nightmare. At Christmas, it's like driving armageddon.)

[Lantyssa]

You guys know that around passover you can get 'kosher for passover' coke in major markets, right?  In this case kosher for passover means made with cane sugar.

Never heard of it, which is funny since our HEB caters to a Jewish neighborhood.  I've not gone down the soda isle or into their separate little Passover store to notice though.

[Paelos]

You guys know that around passover you can get 'kosher for passover' coke in major markets, right?  In this case kosher for passover means made with cane sugar.

Never heard of it, which is funny since our HEB caters to a Jewish neighborhood.  I've not gone down the soda isle or into their separate little Passover store to notice though.

Considering I live in the Coke Mecca, I'll see if I can find it at the Kroger tomorrow.

[Murgos]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2009-04-08-kosher-coke_N.htm

[JWIV]

I need my boss to be less patient/kind in certain ways.  Firing someone that is a value-minus really needs to be done after you give them more than a few chances to shape up.   

[FatuousTwat]

(For you non-Houstonians -- we built a giant, VERY popular and crowded mall next to a freeway. Except the freeway narrows there, exchanges with another freeway, and generally that section is a fucking pain even outside of rush hour. At rush hour, it's a fucking nightmare. At Christmas, it's like driving armageddon.)

So it's like every single other GOD DAMN HELLHOLE MALL in the country?

[Ironwood]

We built one of those in Glasgow.  Christmas traffic became extremely interesting.

[Morat20]

So it's like every single other GOD DAMN HELLHOLE MALL in the country?

It's worse. It's really hard to explain without actually being there, but suffice it to say the interchange it's located near is a major one that is insufficient for even non-peak traffic. Having a large mall there just makes it worse.

I'm sure there are worse highway/mall placements, but this one has to be in the top ten at least. I can't even imagine what the accident numbers are for that whole area.

[Yegolev]

You guys know that around passover you can get 'kosher for passover' coke in major markets, right?  In this case kosher for passover means made with cane sugar.

Never heard of it, which is funny since our HEB caters to a Jewish neighborhood.  I've not gone down the soda isle or into their separate little Passover store to notice though.

Considering I live in the Coke Mecca, I'll see if I can find it at the Kroger tomorrow.

I heard they have it in Sandy Springs.  Look for the yellow caps... which is ironic if you think about it and know some history.

[Yegolev]

I need my boss to be less patient/kind in certain ways.

I'm reminded of Alan Arkin in So I Married An Axe Murderer.

[Minvaren]

So it's like every single other GOD DAMN HELLHOLE MALL in the country?

It's worse. It's really hard to explain without actually being there, but suffice it to say the interchange it's located near is a major one that is insufficient for even non-peak traffic. Having a large mall there just makes it worse.

I'm sure there are worse highway/mall placements, but this one has to be in the top ten at least. I can't even imagine what the accident numbers are for that whole area.

FWIW, I've been told that 610/59 near the Galleria, and the 59/45/288 interchange downtown in Houston used to be in the "US' worst intersections" section of the Guinness Book of World Records.  Not sure if they still both are...

[Morat20]

FWIW, I've been told that 610/59 near the Galleria, and the 59/45/288 interchange downtown in Houston used to be in the "US' worst intersections" section of the Guinness Book of World Records.

It's fucking nerve-wracking to drive. Not so bad, I suppose, if you do it daily and know when to change lanes and shit -- but it's a mess for anyone that doesn't drive their habitually, and for those that DO drive there daily -- you have to watch for people moving three or four lanes at a time, crossing solid white lines, and doing all the usual shit people do when the freeway keeps changing the number of lanes, randomly merging or splitting with another freeway or -- in my favorite -- there's a place where you have the fun of having to switch over two or three lanes inside of half a mile, when those lanes are "merge" lanes from ANOTHER freeway entering.

[Lantyssa]

They improved the 610/59/Westheimer roads.  It's probably only the second or third worst in the nation now.

59/45/288 still sucks mightily.  I won't drive through either, but I'm to the point I won't get on any of our major freeways unless I absolutely have to or it's at a very off hour.

[Paelos]

I just learned that once it gets cloudy, people in Atlanta completely forget how to operate any motor vehicle. It doesn't even have to be raining yet to cause mass hysteria, wrecks, and pileups.

"Honey? What's that outside the windshield?!?? It looks grey and menacing! Quick, jerk the wheel into that bridge embankment!"

[NowhereMan]

I'm going to be in Atlanta briefly next week. Last time I was there I remember the weather being almost unpleasantly hot and two days later there was a blizzard. I would imagine people in that sort of freakish apocalyptic climate would be able to adapt to anything, or was that one of those really freak weather occurrences and I have totally misjudged Georgia's climate?

[Paelos]

I'm going to be in Atlanta briefly next week. Last time I was there I remember the weather being almost unpleasantly hot and two days later there was a blizzard. I would imagine people in that sort of freakish apocalyptic climate would be able to adapt to anything, or was that one of those really freak weather occurrences and I have totally misjudged Georgia's climate?

Two weeks ago it was Sunny and 81. Today it's 57, pissing rain, and it will drop to 40 at night. It dropped snow for 3 days at the beginning of February and then hit mid 60s a week later.

Georgia's climate is seemingly random.

[Rasix]

Sounds like Tucson.

It was 60 around the beginning of the week.  79 right now. It'll hit 97 on Friday. 

[HaemishM]

I'm going to be in Atlanta briefly next week. Last time I was there I remember the weather being almost unpleasantly hot and two days later there was a blizzard. I would imagine people in that sort of freakish apocalyptic climate would be able to adapt to anything, or was that one of those really freak weather occurrences and I have totally misjudged Georgia's climate?

Two weeks ago it was Sunny and 81. Today it's 57, pissing rain, and it will drop to 40 at night. It dropped snow for 3 days at the beginning of February and then hit mid 60s a week later.

Georgia's climate is seemingly random.

There's a saying about Mississippi weather that shows how similar the two states are: "Don't like the weather? Stay a few days."

[Chimpy]

There's a saying about Mississippi weather that shows how similar the two states are: "Don't like the weather? Stay a few days."

Pretty sure that is the motto for everywhere in the U.S. that isn't San Diego.

[Rasix]

You don't hear that a lot in the summer. 

[Lantyssa]

In Houston it's "wait five minutes".

All the Gulf states are pretty much the same as far as weather goes though.

[ezrast]

Yeah, It's said about everywhere that's not the west coast or Florida, usually as "Don't like the weather? Wait five minutes," or "Don't like the weather? Stick around!"

You people have nothing on the midwest though. In the past month, if you just look at the highs, my area has had day-to-day temperature shifts of 19+ degrees five times, and throughout the month has gone from 69 to 40 to 67 to 34 to 73 to 57 to 80 to 36 to 54.

Atlanta and Tucson's average daily temperatures have not changed by more than 10 degrees in any day this month. Ours has done so five times.

This is maybe slightly weirder than normal for us.