Useless Conversation

[Chimpy]

His next post is probably going to be a rant about his PS3 or 360 dying again.

[Morat20]

This is the thing I would like to gain.  For the most part, the coursework would be useless, but there are things I just don't get about computers.  I think the big revelation was the day I found out about the truss command.

Depends on what you want to do, really. Like if you really, really, REALLY wanted to understand Unix and the basics of an OS, I'd advise you just to shell out for something like Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment, which IIRC covers everything from the real way the file system is arranged -- including locking and synchronization -- as well as covering practically everything you'd ever need to use it.

You could write a OS kernal off what's in that book. (I've had to do it, although 'micro-kernel' is more accurate -- and that was a grad-level class).

Depends on the degree, too. Comp Sci is different than Software Engineering is different than the three or four Systems degrees. And then there's focus and electives...*shrug*. It's simpler if you already have a BS or BA, or at least have the credit for all the English, History, science and math basics that are required for everything. THen it's just two years or so of relevant stuff.

But a lot of it's wasted, depending on what you're planning to do. I've got endless hours of college credit -- digital circuits, language theory, computer architecture (the machine-level stuff, like registers and whatnot) that I've never needed and doubt ever will. But some of the guys I took the class with probably use that stuff daily, and think their file systems and OS classes were wasted....

[naum]

A Computer Science degree is a great plus if you're going to do any development work (yes, even web scripting).

Yeah, the piece of paper and the "achievement" is nice, but better is the grounding in algorithms and large systems architecture (though sadly, I think schools are still failing at this aspect).

Used to be, even if a entry level programmer arrived sans academic chops, he could learn the ropes from a more experienced practitioner, and learn from his code and work lessons learned on the job. Now, development teams are thinner, and it's more likely bad practices are propagated.

[Yegolev]

Did I tell you about a hard drive that went missing in my PC for no reason?    That worked out fine, though, because the disk came back after a reboot, then I was prompted to add some exceptions to BackBlaze and I obtained a complete backup for the first time since July 2010.

I'm telling my wife and I mention that when I rebooted the yellow "apply updates" shield was on there, and she says that's the issue.  I've not ever noticed this, but she says that things mysteriously stop working after updates and before reboots; in her case it's printers.  The thing I don't get is that I don't remember telling it to install any updates.

Depends on what you want to do, really.

What I want to do, simply put, is make more money for less work.  I'm not very interested in the piece of paper from a degree.  The aviation ship has sailed, or perhaps flown away.  Yes, the actual path for me from here is to continue on with learning things like UNIX (AIX) programming.  I want to be That Guy who people go to see for everything, instead of right now where they only come to see me for some things.  More practically, I'm going to be further pursuing a more advanced cert and for this I'll need to take a class.  I could read a book, yes, but why not take a class if the company is paying?  Also, I don't have to work while I'm in a class, which is very appealing.

[Morat20]

What I want to do, simply put, is make more money for less work.  I'm not very interested in the piece of paper from a degree.  The aviation ship has sailed, or perhaps flown away.  Yes, the actual path for me from here is to continue on with learning things like UNIX (AIX) programming.  I want to be That Guy who people go to see for everything, instead of right now where they only come to see me for some things.  More practically, I'm going to be further pursuing a more advanced cert and for this I'll need to take a class.  I could read a book, yes, but why not take a class if the company is paying?  Also, I don't have to work while I'm in a class, which is very appealing.

I got my Master's on the company dime. Can't really beat that. :) Although I got a 'mere' three hours paid time off a week for it.

Certs might do you some good, but I can't speak to those -- I don't have any. The only ones my department springs for are for System Admins, and they have to have a bucketload -- not to mention pass an even more stringent and expensive security screen. We had the budget for four, and I was number five. Frankly I'd hate the job anyways.

Being 'that guy' is a bit tough. It's a combination of experience, getting lucky with your projects, and book-learning.

[Salamok]

A Computer Science degree is a great plus if you're going to do any development work (yes, even web scripting).

Yeah, the piece of paper and the "achievement" is nice, but better is the grounding in algorithms and large systems architecture (though sadly, I think schools are still failing at this aspect).

Used to be, even if a entry level programmer arrived sans academic chops, he could learn the ropes from a more experienced practitioner, and learn from his code and work lessons learned on the job. Now, development teams are thinner, and it's more likely bad practices are propagated.

As a web app dev I don't think I have ever used a single algorithm covered in college.  All of the ones I would need are already functions of the language.

[Yegolev]

Certs might do you some good, but I can't speak to those -- I don't have any.

Certs are a job requirement, more or less.  Strictly speaking, I'm required to have 40 hours of education per year, which isn't much and people who wish to remain ignorant can happily do so with minimal effort.  Less strictly, my boss wants me to have certs and this is one of the things that the bean-counters look at when it's time to clean out the workforce.

Besides AIX, which is my chosen poison, he wants me to get up to speed on linux as well.  It's apparently a very popular OS.

[naum]

As a web app dev I don't think I have ever used a single algorithm covered in college.  All of the ones I would need are already functions of the language.

I have.

Yeah, not going to rewrite quicksort in PHP or implement a B-tree in Ruby, but the background is helpful when I need to determine whether to use a queue, stack, hash, array for a given project (task)?  Especially, on the backend too or if your web stack is going to experience surges in traffic -- you better have a good grasp on algorithms or else just be accepting of performance (and costlier cloud computing fees, if that route is opted for) pitfalls.

And while a lot of web coding is simple FIFO (or should I say, DIPO) stuff, I have experienced sticky conundrums with data design (vividly recall a billing system that turned into an intricate dynamic sales/marketing coupon/incentive scheme flexible enough on the fly to slot rates by time, subscription count, etc. via various benchmarks and conditionals) and resultant scripts to present and update.

It's even helpful on the client side, to be aware of optimization pitfalls that can make your application less responsive to user interaction.

[Yegolev]

That's pretty much why I want to know more low-level stuff.  No, I definitely don't need to know it, but it would be nice to have a good understanding of the disk IO, for example, when troubleshooting things.  I don't usually find myself playing with the kernel debugger, either, but it would be cool to be more fluent with that sort of thing.

[Morat20]

That's pretty much why I want to know more low-level stuff.  No, I definitely don't need to know it, but it would be nice to have a good understanding of the disk IO, for example, when troubleshooting things.  I don't usually find myself playing with the kernel debugger, either, but it would be cool to be more fluent with that sort of thing.

Get this and probably this. Stevens UNIX books are good, and the nice thing about them is they expose the fundamentals of the OS.

Not that you really need to know that DOS used B+ trees for file structures, but reading about how UNIX (and practically everyone) handles basic networking and files is a good idea, because those practices represent what the programming industry consider 'damn good ways of doing it'.

Plus, it's fascinating and the books are really good. That's one set I have no intention of ever parting with, even though I don't need to reference them often.

[Trippy]

That's pretty much why I want to know more low-level stuff.  No, I definitely don't need to know it, but it would be nice to have a good understanding of the disk IO, for example, when troubleshooting things.  I don't usually find myself playing with the kernel debugger, either, but it would be cool to be more fluent with that sort of thing.

Get this and probably this. Stevens UNIX books are good, and the nice thing about them is they expose the fundamentals of the OS.

Not that you really need to know that DOS used B+ trees for file structures, but reading about how UNIX (and practically everyone) handles basic networking and files is a good idea, because those practices represent what the programming industry consider 'damn good ways of doing it'.

Plus, it's fascinating and the books are really good. That's one set I have no intention of ever parting with, even though I don't need to reference them often.

The second one has been updated and split into 2 volumes.

[Yegolev]

[ezrast]

The Awesome Pictures Thread inspired me to look up stuff about accents and pronunciation on Wikipedia. In doing so, I realized that I have a speech impediment.

Thanks, f13!

[Sky]

I'm going to be further pursuing a more advanced cert and for this I'll need to take a class.  I could read a book, yes, but why not take a class if the company is paying?

This is where I am right now, though really there's no class, it's basically just book work. I'm glad I loaded up with a couple extra books, the one we got for free is pretty limited and basic.

The next step is a tough one. On the one hand I could push for the CISSP, on the upside it would be free if the DoL approves. And frankly, given the mouth-breathers they've let into the Security+ program (I shit you not, this is an actual post on the class forum: "Besides the computer being slow, how do you know if you are infected with a worm virus?") I really hope they let those of us that are experienced and really taking this seriously move to another cert program. On the downside, I believe it's a provisional cert and I'd have to then work someplace with a CISSP overlord for 3 years (as mentioned in the cert thread), so I'd be job hunting a bit sooner than planned.

On the other hand, I'm considering getting a degree, but that's both long and expensive. Something like a associate in CIS into a bachelor in Cybersecurity would be do-able locally (and the same college my fiancee attended).

Not being able to program beyond super simple scripting is pretty limiting, too.

[Murgos]

Well, the interesting thing about removing a gall bladder is that your cholesterol skyrockets.  I'm already borderline, 190 last I checked.  In addition to anything else that is done, I'm probably going to have a go at being vegetarian.

You have to have a stricter than nomal veggie diet then.  I know a number of vegetarians with shit cholesterol numbers, eating cheese and pasta for every meal will do that to you.

[Ingmar]

The Awesome Pictures Thread inspired me to look up stuff about accents and pronunciation on Wikipedia. In doing so, I realized that I have a speech impediment.

Thanks, f13!

 I'm tho thorry?

[Yegolev]

"A gunfight over dog poo" is a fantastic example of a thread that I will not click on.

[Paelos]

"A gunfight over dog poo" is a fantastic example of a thread that I will not click on.

Yeah I wouldn't wade in there.

[Yegolev]

PG Tips is pretty drinkable.

Edit:
So why am I drinking PG Tips?  I value the opinion of my English friends so much that I went out of my way to find some?  No, there's an English section in my grocery store.  Why is there an English section but no Mexican section, with those delicious Mexican Cokes?  No idea.  It seems based on a dare:

[IainC]

PG Tips is pretty drinkable.

If by 'pretty drinkable' you mean 'better than Liptons' then I guess but that's not a tough bar to clear. It's otherwise poor quality fannings and broken orange pekoe dressed up as a tippy tea. Probably the best supermarket brand English Breakfast tea is Yorkshire Tea but I don't think you can get that in the US, Tetley's is a close runner up though.

[Yegolev]

Did you know I'm American?  I meant relative to other teas I might make myself. 

[Paelos]

Did you know I'm American?  I meant relative to other teas I might make myself. 

Pretty sure Yeg's down here with the other rednecks like me.

We get tea sweetened and iced, or you get odd stares and/or possible violence.

[IainC]

Did you know I'm American?  I meant relative to other teas I might make myself. 

Yes, hence the 'I don't know if you can get that in the US' part of my response. I'm fairly sure I've seen Tetley's for sale in the states.

[Merusk]

Tetleys used to be around but I haven't seen it in years.  It's all Lipton or Bigelow.

We've got an English food section here, along with the Chinese and Mexican sections, but I've never seen creamed rice there.  Ewww.

[Chimpy]

Man, I could go for a box of winegums right about now.

[Paelos]

WTF is a winegum!?!?

Also round here we have Luzianne tea.

[MuffinMan]

Anyone ever order anything from zazzle.com? I ordered a 33"x52" matte print of this today. If it doesn't look like garbage I'm going to get a nice frame for it and hang it over my fireplace.

[Yegolev]

Stickers for the 3-4-year t-ball team.  Kids love stickers.  Were not shit.

[Paelos]

Anyone ever order anything from zazzle.com? I ordered a 33"x52" matte print of this today. If it doesn't look like garbage I'm going to get a nice frame for it and hang it over my fireplace.

That's pretty pimp, I must say.

[MuffinMan]

I figure I'll use it as a guest litmus test. If someone doesn't stare in awe or at least mention it I'll tell them to get the hell out.

[Chimpy]

WTF is a winegum!?!?

It is similiar to a jujyfruit, but with better flavoring and not quite as hard to chew.

[Furiously]

WTF is a winegum!?!?

It is similiar to a jujyfruit, but with better flavoring and not quite as hard to chew.

How are they related to Jelly Babies?

[NowhereMan]

I'd say slightly fruitier, a touch less sweet and a solider gelatin (for a more satisfying chew). Maynard's wine gums are pretty much the greatest thing ever, especially frozen. Also 'creamed' rice I'm guessing is referring to rice pudding, which is delicious when made properly (basically risotto with milk instead of stock). For an easy to put together pudding when it's cold out, with a dollop of good jam or similar and nutmeg it's amazing.

On the 'weird ethnic foods' thing, when I was living in Manchester the local Asda had an Irish foods section that lacked all the really nice Irish food (specifically Klonakilty black puddings). Why do those sort of food sections just seem to go out of their way to put cheap, generic brands on the shelves?

[Merusk]

See, rice pudding I've had and it's pretty good.  Creamed rice makes me think of creamed corn which... isn't good.

I'd guess they stock the generic stuff because it's cheapest to import and you lose less money when you have to toss the stuff that's gone bad.

[JWIV]

Speaking of weird foods, has anyone here tried durian fruit?   I was at a local bistro and they had a creme brulee w/ durian fruit on the menu with the subtitle of DO NOT ORDER THIS.  All quite bizarre.

From the description, it seems to be one of those things you do on a dare while drunk.