Useless Conversation

[Paelos]

Yeah, except I'm the type of guy that thinks '4 of us are wondering what's going on and 1 of us is in the pub celebrating.'

My experience with this was always "5 wondering what's going on without ever hearing back and management deciding to promote from within or not hiring anyone at all due to budget cuts yet too chickenshit to actually have the balls to tell the candidates."

Yeah it's more likely that nobody got the job.

[Merusk]

Truth be told I'd rather be a structural engineer.  Still involved with construction, but you make a hell of a lot more money for a hell of a lot less work.  

Do you have to have finaid to pursue a new degree or can you make it for a while on your own dime?

The dirty secret of graduate engineering is that if you can pay your own way and have held down a job that's at least a little related they pretty much won't give more than a cursory glance at your GPA.  I know your next argument will be, "But don't I need an undergrad Eng degee?" and the answer to that is no.  You may not be able to get into any of the 5/6/7 level courses until you pick up some of the prereqs but, whatever.  As an architect I imagine you are already pretty familiar with most of the concepts in structural engineering if not really able to rigorously apply the theory so it shouldn't be that hard a transition.

Enroll as non-degree seeking at the college you want to attend, take a course & pass it and then apply to become degree seeking.  Admissions requirements are high because of the competition for finaid, if you don't need one of those precious slots then you could probably go to a top 10 school without having to jump through too many hoops.

I could save up and make it for a year or so here at UC (who appear to have a M.S. in Structures & Materials), or sell the house and move, living off that for a while, I suppose.  Not a bad idea, now I just need to figure out a decent school to try and get in to.  As I said, I'd tried once before and was rejected at UC, but that was Elec. Engineering so a bit of a shift.

On the upside of things, I got a call for an interview on Thursday and went in on Friday for a big local international firm.  They may need some temporary help with a Hilton project and, from the sound of the interview, I'm one of the few candidates who actually has kept their CAD skills up.  Having an in from knowing 2 guys who worked there and vouched for me was a big help because residential work is the black spot of the architectural world.   Now to hope they 1) get the work and 2) I'm the guy picked and 3) the economy continues to pick-up so I get offered a permanent position.

My current hate is for residential process/ production housing right now, not the actual field.  I'd still rather be an engineer in the long-term, though. 

IW - If it's that interview you just did, do you really want the job anyway?  Particularly if they can't be arsed to call anyone back or do anything on a timetable they set in the first place.

[ghost]

Fuck.  I just had a close friend diagnosed with stage IV bronchoalveolar carcinoma.  He's 34 and a non-smoker and has three kids.  Bleh. 

[Nebu]

Fuck.  I just had a close friend diagnosed with stage IV bronchoalveolar carcinoma.  He's 34 and a non-smoker and has three kids.  Bleh. 

That's not typically an invasive type cancer.  Hopefully removal of the lobe will take care of it with radiation/chem adjuvant therapy.   

[ghost]

That's what I thought, Nebu, but apparently the pathologist said it is atypically aggressive in this instance and is giving a lower chance of survival than the typical 20-30% for stage IVs.  It came up very quickly for him.  He's at MD Anderson though, so he will be getting good care.  

Edit:  And remember stage IV means mets, so not good either way. 

[Merusk]

Sorry to hear it, ghost.  I hope he manages to be one of the few.

[ghost]

The other weird part of it is this- 

I was in a residency for 3 years for Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery.  Our department was located in the corner of one of the main buildings here in SA's dental school.  Out of that department (which my friend who got the lung cancer was also in)-  the chairman of the department died of a Glioblastoma, his secretary died of esophageal cancer, the doctor in the next office got a thymoma that they initially thought was benign but had some thymic carcinoma cells in it when they did the pathology, and then my friend with the lung cancer.  And all of this is over the past 6 years.  That is some creepy shit and makes me wonder if I shouldn't go get a full body CT just for kicks and grins.  I wonder if they have a radon issue or something that hasn't been discovered.  Radon can be a cause for the lung cancer at a minimum. 

[Merusk]

What's the saying.. once is chance twice is coincidence three times is enemy action?

Yeah, I'd go do the scan just to be sure.

[Nebu]

Edit:  And remember stage IV means mets, so not good either way. 

Yeah, I did my research fellowship in heme/onc.  Not good indeed. 

I'm so sorry ghost.  He's too young to have to cope with something like this.

[Ironwood]

If nothing else, it's made me feel better about the chap who hasn't called (because, it turns out, he's on holiday.  Bastard.)

Even so, don't lose hope and don't get down - you'd be amazed what people recover from.  My Uncle who totally kicked the ass of Lymphoma recently can attest.  It should have killed him in days.

That was 2 years ago.

[ghost]

Well, this guy is pretty stout.  If anyone could pull out of it, it would be him.  I'm going to go see him on Friday over at MD Anderson when I can drive over.

[Lantyssa]

MD Anderson means he's getting the best care possible.  I'm thankful my dad had the opportunity to get treatment there.

[Chimpy]

So I went to do dishes, and decided I was going to see if the trap was clogged as the drain has been slow for a while. I open the cabinet, see water dripping from the bottom of the trap. I touched it and it disintegrated.

So, 3 and a half hours (most of which was spent extricating the end of the J pipe out of the drain pipe in the wall) and $3.00 at the hardware store for a PVC trap I now have a working drain and I even got the previously jammed disposal working.

But god do I hate plumbing.

[ghost]

I had to do that same thing in the bathroom just the other day, Chimpy.  God it's fucking disgusting some of the stuff that can build up in there.   

[WayAbvPar]

I hate plumbing because it rapes my poor credit card. I am sure I could fumble my way through much of it, but at what cost in time, frustration, money, and curtailed life expectancy due to stress? Don't ever say I am not doing my part to spur the economy!

[RhyssaFireheart]

So the 55 random pending charges finally posted today. :-(  They kept dropping off, re-pending, dropping off, and now finally posted.  We got our replacement debit cards yesterday and activated them just fine.  Husband called the bank customer service this morning and spoke to a woman there who was a bitch from the getgo.  He said he wanted to dispute the charges, said that we'd already cancelled the old cards and received/activated the new ones last night, and asked about a provisional credit since we didn't make these charges.  CS Woman said that bank didn't know we hadn't made those charges so they couldn't give us a provisional credit.  Husband said "so we're guilty until proven innocent?" and woman was "huh?"  So he said thanks, he'll go into a branch to handle the dispute.  He knows how the system works though, considering he's a bank manager himself.

[Paelos]

He knows how the system works though, considering he's a bank manager himself.

What do you mean?

[RhyssaFireheart]

He used to work at that bank before going to another one.  When a customer disputes charges that have posted to their account, it's not that uncommon to give them a provisional credit to cover the disputed funds taken out. 

[Paelos]

He used to work at that bank before going to another one.  When a customer disputes charges that have posted to their account, it's not that uncommon to give them a provisional credit to cover the disputed funds taken out. 

No I meant why does going to a branch do anything different than CSR?

[Chimpy]

Face to Face meetings are much easier to escalate to the point of getting someone who can actually get something done.

[Sky]

I hate plumbing because it rapes my poor credit card. I am sure I could fumble my way through much of it, but at what cost in time, frustration, money, and curtailed life expectancy due to stress? Don't ever say I am not doing my part to spur the economy!

What happens between sinks and wall can hardly be called plumbing, really. If you understand the basic principles involved (slope, traps), it's a good way to save money. Both my kitchen and bathroom sinks were failing when I bought my house, second project I did (after changing the locks) was to re-plumb the kitchen sink, from new drains to the wall. Two separate plumbers backhandedly complimented me saying I did a good job, but it's hard to screw up. I did point out that both the previous jobs and also my last apartment and my mother's house had crappy installs under the sinks, but eh.

[Merusk]

He used to work at that bank before going to another one.  When a customer disputes charges that have posted to their account, it's not that uncommon to give them a provisional credit to cover the disputed funds taken out. 

No I meant why does going to a branch do anything different than CSR?

Because CSRs are easily replaced low-wage employees given very little authority to do anything at all.  At best they're authorized to give $5-$25 credits and track things.   They're in place to handle petty shit like account balances, customer complaints, checking on transfers and reordering checks or lost cards.  If you're dealing with this type of issue you should be talking to a supervisor from the get-go or just going in to the branch.   If you're insistent on talking over the phone you should also work through the fraud department, not the front line CSRs. 

At least that's what my wife always tells me.  She worked as a CSR for US Bank, FirStar and 5/3 over 7 years and it was the same at each place.

[HaemishM]

Front-line CSR's exist so "important" people at companies who make anything like a living wage don't have to talk to pissed off shithead customers for anything but the worst complaints.

[Bunk]

Oh cool, Haemish thinks I'm an "important" person.  (I'm the Assistant Manager of a customer service  dept. for a software company, for those who don't know).

Merusk does have it mostly right. Front line CSRs have a set boundary to work within, and one of their main goals is to keep you happy with a solution within that boundary so that you don't escalate. Not because the supervisor or manager doesn't want to deal with them, but because they know that the farther up the customer escalates, the more they will have to concede to the customer.

It's a tough business, I've been on all three sides of the call center environment - CSR, Tech, and Sales. I can tell you without a doubt that the ones who have the most complex job and the most knowledge of the inner workings of the company’s systems - are the ones who get paid the least.

Sales and Tech can both be tough jobs, but neither of them has to deal with screaming lunatic customers - that’s the CSRs job, and is why you don't see many career CSR people.

[HaemishM]

Oh cool, Haemish thinks I'm an "important" person.  (I'm the Assistant Manager of a customer service  dept. for a software company, for those who don't know).

No. If you have Assistant in your name or ever ever have to talk to a person you didn't call who bought your product, you are not an "important" person in the corporate hierarchy. You're just the guy that gets the worst shitheads and if you're lucky you can kick that shithead up one level.

Aren't you Canadian as well? If you're company wasn't founded in the US, you also aren't nearly so disdained by your corporation as a US CSR Asst. Manager would be.

[Merusk]

It's a tough business, I've been on all three sides of the call center environment - CSR, Tech, and Sales. I can tell you without a doubt that the ones who have the most complex job and the most knowledge of the inner workings of the company’s systems - are the ones who get paid the least.

Depressing fact for you: It's the same for most companies outside of call centers as well.

[ghost]

Promoted to your highest level of incompetence is the rule. 

[Polysorbate80]

Promoted to your highest level of incompetence is the rule. 

AKA, "Shit floats"

[Ironwood]

 

[Paelos]

Promoted to your highest level of incompetence is the rule. 

AKA, "Shit floats"

I think yall would be shocked at how intelligent the average CFO actually is, and how much they really do understand the business down to the smallest levels. But keep living in that fantasy land that big business is run by morons.

[Nebu]

I think yall would be shocked at how intelligent the average CFO actually is, and how much they really do understand the business down to the smallest levels. But keep living in that fantasy land that big business is run by morons.

I'd be shocked.  I've met quite a few and about 10% strike me as having any real intellectual capacity.  I will grant you that most of them have an exceptional level of ability to set aside personal ethics when it comes to making a buck.  It is very seldom that the smartest and most creative people in a company are the ones running it.  The managers are managers because they know where to put the talent.  While that's a skill set, I'm not sure I'd relate it so directly to intellect. 

[Polysorbate80]

C'mon, now.  Intelligence =/= Competence.

Come work with some of the university professors here, you'll see what I mean.

Oftentimes the only thing the managers here have "managed" is to drive off any rational, competent competition for the positions.

[Ironwood]

Either there's a huge amount of cultural difference in this thread or a lot of fucking underperforming bitter wankers.

I'm not sure which yet.

[Polysorbate80]

Can't we be both ignorant and lazy at the same time?

Although that is two things at once, and I'm not sure I can be bothered to put that much effort into it 

[Bunk]

Yea, while I understand the sentiment, and I have felt it myself in regards to others who have managed me in the past - it all depends on the process in how someone got their position.

I earned my way up - I was internally recruited from another department to be a Supervisor in Customer Service when there was an opening, and I made my way to middle management over others in my department (who had more seniority) by being better at the job. This was all despite the fact that I had very little political clout due to perceptions of certain middle managers in other departments that I was "a problem". aka I bitched when something needed bitching about. It's taken me several years to rebuild my reputation with other departments, but I have - thanks mostly to a manager willing to guide me on the finer points of office politics. 

Typically, I see it being as balance though - the farther up the food chain you go in a company, the more the scale tips towards political influence and away from competence. Then of course comes the issue of senior roles being filled by hires from outside the company - they typically have great business skills, but no practical knowledge of the buisness itself.

Really though, it's rather stupid to try to apply any sort of "rule" to what managers or employees are like. Being a knob is an equal opportunity thing.