Useless Conversation

[Chimpy]

Achilles stretches are what I always found was the key to avoiding/relieving shin splints.

[Merusk]

Fuck you, Adobe, for your entire Creative Cloud system. You blocked a user for 2 weeks because they had a bad WEB cookie and nobody from tech support up to your engineer team had any clue how to fix it.

A happenstance web search gave us the idea to clear web cookies and - ta da - now the user has a CCE license again, accessed by the shitty mandatory app you force us to run. At least it only uses up 110mb of memory and updates every two weeks to NOT do its job of license-handling.

Fuck your incompetent asses. Goddamn.

[Yegolev]

Re-enact the Prestige.

This has already been discussed quite a bit.

The plasma lamp, is it what I think it is?
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Motion-10194-8-Plasma-Ball/dp/B000098XEE

Because that would be super easy and flashy.

[Merusk]

Re-enact the Prestige.

This has already been discussed quite a bit.

The plasma lamp, is it what I think it is?
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Motion-10194-8-Plasma-Ball/dp/B000098XEE

Because that would be super easy and flashy.

You just want to do the Prestige so you can dress like Bowie. Don't lie.

Yes that's a plasma lamp.

[Yegolev]

The boy is doing it, not me, thus the need for historic accuracy.  I don't need a reason to dress like Bowie.  The easy approach would be to buy many top hats and stuffed cats, but that won't necessarily fly.

Since we would like for him to continue attending the same school for another six years, I'm going to do my best to avoid damaging people or property.  No oscillator, nothing that would arc... except that Jacob's ladder, which we might still need to have a conversation about.  Besides the high voltage, it produces toxic gases.

[Ironwood]

Fuck LDAP.

[rattran]

No oscillator, nothing that would arc... except that Jacob's ladder, which we might still need to have a conversation about.  Besides the high voltage, it produces toxic gases.

Pretty much anything is going to be less dangerous than the Jacob's Ladder setup. I mean, they look and sound cool, but running it indoors around kids is just asking for problems. Unless you build a full on Tesla coil, those are potentially more dangerous and more work though.

[Sky]

Just hook up a couple rods to a small neon sign transformer, they're awesome. Then again, my stepdad was an electrician, so I did all kinds of things parents today would frown upon for their fragile little babies.

[Engels]

Fuck LDAP.

At first I read it as 'Fuck LAPD' and I thought Ironwood was going all gangsta.

[Lantyssa]

Fuck LDAP.

And risk it propagating? No thanks.

[Paelos]

Anybody else use Chrome and been having trouble with it freezing this week? I'm getting some issues.

[Merusk]

Not this week, but a week or two ago it was freezing on any site that used Java. Which is apparently a lot of the licensing sites I have to deal with, so that was fun.

[Paelos]

That's what was happening to me too. I'm switching back to Firefox for now.

[Merusk]

I just used Edge/ IE instead, but yeah, that seems to be the solution. Chrome's being pissy about a lot of things recently, I might just make a permanent switch to Firefox again.

[Yegolev]

Chrome works OK if you run it on a $2200 laptop.

[Sky]

Oh, snap. Chrome sucks.

[Morat20]

Morat, what you're describing is absolutely shin splints. No need to worry further than that. They will probably go away as you do it more but it might take a while, like, months.

But Cyrrex is right, jogging is a terrible idea for pretty much everyone. The only exception is if you can run on grass 100% of the time. Proper grass, not astroturf. And even then there's 1000s of things that are better for you than jogging.

Have you considered swimming? It's incredibly good at getting you generally fitter with a very low chance of also causing you injury at the same time. Particularly good if you're overweight at all.

I'd prefer to be swimming. Jogging's what I can fit in. Plus I feel I'm actually accomplishing something here, so I'd like to keep up the "Morat actually exercises and sticks to it" setup I've got, rather than risk modifying it and finding a reason to slack off. City just approved a bond measure to build an indoor pool so I can actually swim year-round without joining a gym. I've hated every gym within a reasonable distance of my house I've tried, and the one at work lacks what I'd really like (decent weight machines. Tons of elliptical, bikes, and treadmills but nothing for just maintaining or improving muscle tone).

Turns out it's not shin splits. Absolutely fine shins. (No pain, no tenderness, no issues outside of actually jogging. Pain goes away upon stopping running, even if I keep walking).

Got sent to a physical therapist (there's a really good sports medicine facility not far from work), who did a rather thorough evaluation (since I have a history of minor lower back issues -- spasms hurt, btw -- they wanted to rule out nerve entrapment faking it all) and it apparently boils down to "stiff ankles" and "weak hip and lower abdominal muscles". It feels like a cramp because it IS a cramp, and it's cramping because my calves and shins are apparently doing work my ankles and hips should be doing.

The aforementioned hips/lower abdomen stuff is probably also why I have back problems.

Now maybe it doesn't fix my jogging and I have to switch to something else, but even just doing a few simple exercises showed they were right about their claims. I figure stretches, a month or so of pretty cheap physical therapy and worse case I've improved a few areas of my body that could use it.

[Sky]

I'd prefer to be swimming. 

The fiancee doesn't quite get how important a pool set up for laps is when we talk about requirements for a house. Especially as we get older, it would be really nice to have one. I'd be out there half the year (since we love in a winter wonderland). I'd trade yardwork for pool cleaning (and by that I mean paying a guy) anyday.

Now, if I could get a heated indoor pool....oh, man.

[Merusk]

I'd love to do a small pool with an endless lap machine. It's cheaper on both build and maintenance costs and easier to do indoors.

[Cyrrex]

Morat, what you're describing is absolutely shin splints. No need to worry further than that. They will probably go away as you do it more but it might take a while, like, months.

But Cyrrex is right, jogging is a terrible idea for pretty much everyone. The only exception is if you can run on grass 100% of the time. Proper grass, not astroturf. And even then there's 1000s of things that are better for you than jogging.

Have you considered swimming? It's incredibly good at getting you generally fitter with a very low chance of also causing you injury at the same time. Particularly good if you're overweight at all.

I'd prefer to be swimming. Jogging's what I can fit in. Plus I feel I'm actually accomplishing something here, so I'd like to keep up the "Morat actually exercises and sticks to it" setup I've got, rather than risk modifying it and finding a reason to slack off. City just approved a bond measure to build an indoor pool so I can actually swim year-round without joining a gym. I've hated every gym within a reasonable distance of my house I've tried, and the one at work lacks what I'd really like (decent weight machines. Tons of elliptical, bikes, and treadmills but nothing for just maintaining or improving muscle tone).

Turns out it's not shin splits. Absolutely fine shins. (No pain, no tenderness, no issues outside of actually jogging. Pain goes away upon stopping running, even if I keep walking).

Got sent to a physical therapist (there's a really good sports medicine facility not far from work), who did a rather thorough evaluation (since I have a history of minor lower back issues -- spasms hurt, btw -- they wanted to rule out nerve entrapment faking it all) and it apparently boils down to "stiff ankles" and "weak hip and lower abdominal muscles". It feels like a cramp because it IS a cramp, and it's cramping because my calves and shins are apparently doing work my ankles and hips should be doing.

The aforementioned hips/lower abdomen stuff is probably also why I have back problems.

Now maybe it doesn't fix my jogging and I have to switch to something else, but even just doing a few simple exercises showed they were right about their claims. I figure stretches, a month or so of pretty cheap physical therapy and worse case I've improved a few areas of my body that could use it.

Is it the jogging itself that you find interesting?  Just trying to get into your head a little bit.  Is the elliptical too boring?  What about cycling?  Fast walking on the treadmill?  Sprints?  I ask only because these are all exercises that are better than jogging, and that goes triple considering all the symptoms you are talking about.

[Nebu]

There are only three reasons to jog

1. You genuinely enjoy it.
2. To improve your VO2 max
3. You want to become a better distance runner

It's shit for burning calories/weight loss.

[WayAbvPar]

4) You are being chased by a bear and your companion is a LITTLE bit slower than you.

[Morat20]

Is it the jogging itself that you find interesting?  Just trying to get into your head a little bit.  Is the elliptical too boring?  What about cycling?  Fast walking on the treadmill?  Sprints?  I ask only because these are all exercises that are better than jogging, and that goes triple considering all the symptoms you are talking about.

Hmm. It mostly started because "I'm fat and need to exercise" and "I have a treadmill". (Houston's too hot for most outdoor stuff like 8 months of the year). Jogging was mostly because, you know, I wanted something a little more aerobic than fast walking. To be honest, the second my knees twinge I'm quitting for something else -- I'm not stupid. There's a reason I went straight to a doctor about this, rather than trying to push through it or something stupid. Mind you, I've been doing this -- a mix of jogging and walking -- for six to eight months now. If I hadn't been an idiot about distance at the beginning of August, I wouldn't have abused my muscles so badly that it went from 'petty annoyance to stretch out and then move on' to 'Jesus that hurts, wtf did I do?'

But I rather like it, the few times I've gotten into the groove. I'd probably be able to do it with an elliptical or anything else that pushed me a bit harder than a fast walk, but I don't have one (nor can afford one) and I really DO hate every convenient gym. I am very, very likely to switch to swimming as soon as the indoor city pool is complete (I used to swim competitively, way back when I was a teenager, and I still know how to train and pace myself. Did it for almost 10 years, even though doing it now is like starting from scratch. Worse than scratch. I was in much better shape at 6).

I've felt a lot better since I started, all around. I've started losing weight and eating better, and I'd prefer not to mess with something that's working unless I have to. I just..enjoy jogging more. If I start suffering from problems that aren't purely bio-mechanical -- this stuff I'm looking at now is all proper conditioning stuff, really -- then I'd switch to something else.

As it is, while I doubt the ankle stuff would have ever been noticed, the weak core stuff? I've been fighting that for 20 years (I ripped the hell out of my lower back muscles in my early 20s, and never really rehabilitated them. In fact, that was when I more or less quit exercising. I was out for months. Sucked) and even if I switch to bikes (I rather hate those. Never tried an elliptical) tomorrow, I'd do the PT for the back. That's been causing me problems for years.

But yeah, if I'm damaging myself? I'd quit and find something else. My knees start to bug me? Done. But if it's just "you need to limber up your ankles and fix that back problem you've had for decades?" -- that's fine.

Because in the end, I'm exercising and enjoying it. It's making me healthier, and I have goals and I'm actually starting to reach them and I don't plan to mess with what's working unless I have to. (And hey, my jogging goals are pretty small. 12 miles a week, max. No more than three times a week. So like 3 to 3.5 miles twice a week and 5 miles once a week. I have no interest in running daily or training for marathons or pushing to high speeds. And if stuff starts bothering me, I stop and see a doctor. And if I gotta switch to something else, I will.

[Nebu]

4) You are being chased by a bear zombie and your companion is a LITTLE bit slower than you.

 

[Sky]

I'd love to do a small pool with an endless lap machine. It's cheaper on both build and maintenance costs and easier to do indoors.

But then I couldn't build an elaborate system of rope swings and ledges to jump into the deep end. A co-worker's husband owns a pool business and he's already told me he can't dig the deep end to 20' :p

But that's where I would put the secret underwater entrance to my lair, sheesh.

[Morat20]

I'd love to do a small pool with an endless lap machine. It's cheaper on both build and maintenance costs and easier to do indoors.

But then I couldn't build an elaborate system of rope swings and ledges to jump into the deep end. A co-worker's husband owns a pool business and he's already told me he can't dig the deep end to 20' :p

But that's where I would put the secret underwater entrance to my lair, sheesh.

My in-laws have a pool with a 12' deep end. Diving board and all. It's nice. :) If I was rich, I'd get that AND a lap machine. Pay the extra to install speakers in the lap one, too. Pipe some music in.

Of course if I was rich, I'd be retired too and do hobby programming or learn woodwoorking or something too.

[Rasix]

I wish my pool was a little longer for swimming laps, but then it'd pretty much take up my entire yard.  Still, it's a pool, and rather valuable this time of year.

The skimmer basket is doing a good job of making me less squeamish around gross stuff. 

[Morat20]

I wish my pool was a little longer for swimming laps, but then it'd pretty much take up my entire yard.  Still, it's a pool, and rather valuable this time of year.

The skimmer basket is doing a good job of making me less squeamish around gross stuff. 

Care for an infant. After that experience, no matter how gross something is....it'll never be as bad as the time the baby had projectile diarrhea that was blackish/green and somehow runny and sticky at the same time AND you're pretty sure it expelled it's own body weight every 12 hours or so.

Baby's are like hoses for gross. It's a year or so or random vomiting, pooing, peeing, and general oozing icky stuff.

Seriously, the day a kid is finally potty trained? It's like a lifetime of Christmas. Just...glorious.

[Bunk]

I recently got inspired to get active again, mostly by the discovery that my father was suddenly in far better shape than I was, despite nearing 70. So I've given up 95% of my junk food intake and snacking, and started trying to get active.

Been walking everywhere lately, since I moved to an area of town with lots of small shops and restaurants. It's also very hilly, which has made it interesting. Also decided to invest in some proper running shoes (first pair in 20 years) and started a bit of jogging to see how it went. The realization of how bad my lung capacity has gotten me inspired to keep it up. Not doing it as consistently as I should, but I found a local track with nice cushiony surface nearby, and I think I'll stick to that for actual jogging. I'd forgotten just how good jogging actually feels once you're past those first few laps.

Currently the exercise is pretty much just balancing with my beer intake - I've lost about five lbs in two months - but it feels good.

[Morat20]

I'd forgotten just how good jogging actually feels once you're past those first few laps.

That's why I'm doing rather painful exercises several times a day so I can get back to it -- but yeah, track surfaces are pretty good. I can't fathom the people who run on concrete. I suppose you either perfect your form fast or you get used to pain. Tracks and treadmills are far more forgiving.

I don't eat a ton of junk food as it is, nor drink a lot of beer, but I've been watching portions. Between that and exercise I've lost a few pounds -- but my belt shows I've lost more than the scale does.

My goal's pretty high (I'd like to lose a third of my weight) but I'd honestly accept 15% loss. Luckily I'm really sedentary so I've got a lot of easy gains. Not just jogging, but I've gotten so flabby overall that just tightening and toning muscles -- even simply adding some daily pushups and situps -- is another sink for calories. 1/3 puts me back at late college weight, and I think that's...gonna be hard without outright joining a gym.

So far I'm shooting for 1 to 2 pounds a month, max, and when that stops I'll reassess where I want to go next. But actually exercising means I sleep better and feel better.

[Soln]

There are only three reasons to jog

1. You genuinely enjoy it.
2. To improve your VO2 max
3. You want to become a better distance runner

It's shit for burning calories/weight loss.

What exercise would you recommend for weight loss, health?

[Morat20]

Dunno about him, but back in the day, I'd have said "Racquetball". Playing an hour of racquetball with someone roughly your own skill level is, well -- it's like doing wind sprints for an hour. Except you're having fun. Of course, everyone closed their courts because you can fit 40 people in a spin class in there instead of two or four people playing racquetball.

Now days, being older and fatter and more concerned about sudden starts and stops and quick changes of directions killing my knees, I'd probably vote 'swimming'.

I had a bunch more stuff here, but realized after I posted that it was only true if you're already a skilled swimmer. I'm ridiculously out of shape and practice, but I did it for almost a decade competitively, and by that I mean "Actually competitive'. I was one of the top swimmers in my area, in a rather large and strong team. It was one of the few sports activities I was actually good at.

If you're not a skilled swimmer -- and by that I mean capable of an efficient freestyle with solid form -- it's not so great. If you can't swim efficiently, you basically don't keep your heart-rate up (it'll feel like you do but not so much -- that's because you're holding your breath) and you're not working your muscles in a way that's going to build them up. You'd get better results for your time doing a lot of other things.

OTOH, it's low impact and if you can swim it's not that hard to get a good form if you've got instruction. It's just the YMCA level "You can get around and won't drown" stuff probably won't cut it. You won't keep your heart-rate up, you won't build and tone most of your muscles.

Water's weird that way. There's a lot of resistance, but no gravity weighing you down (well, you know what I mean) and to keep working the muscles hard, continuously, requires good form. With good form, however....you'll tone the heck out of your body (especially if you switch styles) but it's about endurance more than anything. Not gonna add much muscle, but what you have will get denser and more efficient.

[Evildrider]

Dunno about him, but back in the day, I'd have said "Racquetball". Playing an hour of racquetball with someone roughly your own skill level is, well -- it's like doing wind sprints for an hour. Except you're having fun. Of course, everyone closed their courts because you can fit 40 people in a spin class in there instead of two or four people playing racquetball.

Me and my buddies were/still a bunch of out of shape nerds/hippies.  We used to smoke a few bong hits then play racquetball.  That was amazing fun and we would all be winded and sore by the time we were done.

[Morat20]

Fun game. Popped a knee out of socket playing it, but that's really not a normal danger of the sport (sticky shoes, a knee that's vulnerable to dislocation when things twist just right, and Morat's on the floor staring at the knee cap on the SIDE OF HIS KNEE). After that, I played wearing the dorkiest looking knee braces (all material. It's there entirely to hold a tiny piece of felt so that if my kneecap decides to wander, the little piece of felt stops it and says "Go back to where you belong". Which means I feel a horrible, brief, WTF sensation followed by a knee that's a little sore for about 48 hours as opposed to six weeks in a brace).

Seriously, if there was a court around here I'd dig out my stuff and place in a heartbeat. And then possibly have a heart attack about 20 minutes in.

[Cyrrex]

There are only three reasons to jog

1. You genuinely enjoy it.
2. To improve your VO2 max
3. You want to become a better distance runner

It's shit for burning calories/weight loss.

What exercise would you recommend for weight loss, health?

Almost literally everything else is better than jogging, but there is no universal answer to this question, because you have to be more specific about what "weight loss" and "health" mean to you.  People are terrible at setting tangible and specific goals.  How can you know the best way to achieve a goal that you haven't really even set?  Seems super obvious, but even really dedicated people struggle with it. 

There are certainly exceptions, but most people who are good at jogging (like, been doing it for years and can go for miles and miles) look like shit regardless of their body weight, and are usually not good for anything besides jogging.  It doesn't transfer over very well to anything else, and if you stop doing it for any length of time, your body quickly reverts to its former state.  Not to mention the bio-mechanical havoc it plays on your body.  Is that our metric for good health?