Useless Conversation

[Salamok]

Tell that cunt to put a backup line in.

For Fucks sake, if it's costing you that much, get some fucking redundancy !

"But if we aren't using it why should we pay for it®" is brought to you by the same people who invented "Every business needs to have sales people or you don't have jobs®".

[Samwise]

Every business needs to have sales people or you don't have jobs. I don't get the hate.

I could point you at quite a few successful businesses that don't require dedicated sales people in order to make money.  Shit, you're posting on a game website -- when's the last time you bought a game because a sales guy talked you into it?

[Paelos]

The games industry is one of the worst businesses ever run.

Also, they have huge sales forces they pay with demos and payoffs. They are called game journalists.

Even if it's not a dedicated sales force, somebody has to sell something or you're not making money. I have to sell my ability to get tax returns done, and differentiate myself from HR Block or the other firms. Lawyers do the same thing. At it's core, sales is the most important part of any business.

[Samwise]

Yes, but in this conversation, we were talking about "sales people", that is to say people employed for the sole purpose of selling.  So you lose.  

[Ironwood]

KITANO WINS.  FATALITY.

(I think board discussions would be better with Mortal Kombay animations after every one.  Anyone visiting the depression thread would be instantly cheered up.)

[Ingmar]

We had one of those guys who liked to make up numbers about how much outages were costing the company, except he was an engineering manager. Every minute we waste failing to set up this videoconference* costs us a thousand dollars, blah blah blah. Exempt salaries don't work that way, buddy.

*because we fucked around with the cables trying to move the camera around and plugged them back in wrong ourselves.

[Chimpy]

Stupid weather. The foot of snow/ice that was on the ground everywhere (and had been there for the last month) pretty much melted all at once today with thunderstorms/rain dumping around an inch of rain on top. So basically everywhere is flooded because the ground is frozen and a large amount of storm drains are blocked by residual snow piles and debris.

And of course, the winds have picked up substantially and there are Tornado watches.

[Strazos]

Wow this thread moved quick today.

Anyway, if you want some truly vile drinks, try one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakia#Albanian_rakia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodabe#Distilled

[Khaldun]

Well, I am getting tarred and feathered now. Just in slow motion and largely by anonymous or indirect action. Really makes me wish I could just stay in bed, honestly, and I don't think I've actually ever felt that way in many years of teaching.

[Rasix]

It occurred to me sometime after I had done it, but.. I probably should ask people before removing a piece of cactus that's lodged into their hand.  Especially when there's a medical tent like 50 yards away.   Guy handled it rather well. 

Weather was perfect for the golf tournament, but people kept bumping into cactus.  There were a lot of foreigners present that didn't understand that Arizona plant life wants you dead.

[Yoru]

Arizona plant life wants you dead.

FTFY. Based on my recollections of Schild's houseparty back when he lived in Arizona, I'm surprised any of us survived.

[Merusk]

If you just hang out with them on the golf course, of course you're going to enjoy their company.

He's the accountant.  He has no other useful function.   

Hey someone's got to justify those big bonuses to the sales force that sits at their desk not doing cold-calls and hitting their numbers.  It's not like the PRODUCT was selling itself or anything.

 

My dad was a salesman and a division president, my grandfather was a salesman.  They both hated sales people, but only a certain kind.  The kind we're referencing here.  The kind that lies to customers about features, doesn't know shit about the product they're selling, doesn't understand the market segment the company is working in but pushes to sell, sell, sell to ANYONE and only does that to make their own paycheck bigger.

IT runs in to this a lot on the software side of things.  If you're fortunate and have a somewhat savvy CEO/ CFO/ COO they'll send it to an IT manager for discussion.  If you have a guy easily sold a pretty demo they'll buy the software and then harangue you about using it.

 "Why aren't you drawing plans in that awesome software we spent $12,000 on?!" 
  "Because while it makes a great demo, and makes things look pretty without the ability to make changes easily, doesn't interact with 90% of the rest of the industry and requires fucking DOS."

True story, wish I could remember the damn software.

Housing I ran into this all the time as well. Sales people sell houses by making wild promises about what can and can't be done both according to code and physics.  They & their bosses then harass the arch. department and escalate it to company presidents when told, "Look, it's not physically possible to erect a 2 story shell and have nothing holding it together.  We need at least a beam or cross tie, this isn't a dome." THEN they bitch like children when told their commission is going to be cut to cover the cost of the structural engineer to fix their idiocy.

The kind of sales people that don't do this are becoming fewer and further between in my experiences.  It's all, "milk the idiot, jump to new company" with no professional or personal liability.  If fired or given a less plumb assignment, just point to your excellent numbers from the past to get a new job.   The worst violators I knew from the housing debacle all jumped to medical products and medicines. Coincidence? No.

[Lantyssa]

I'm starting to think that I'm broken.  I have no taste for coffee, tea, or alcohol.  I only drink alcohol for effect or medicinally.  Can't stand vinegar or most condiments either. 

I'm a lot like that.

I do alcohol socially and I've worked to find the drinks I do like.  Mustard and spicy stuff are the only condiments I like.

My tastebuds are 'off' in comparison to a lot of friends though.

[Paelos]

I'll just point out that you could most likely do a survey of how people feel about the people in their sales department, and the people in their IT department.

A lot of you work in IT, but I don't think either survey would be extremely flattering to those involved.

[Salamok]

I'll just point out that you could most likely do a survey of how people feel about the people in their sales department, and the people in their IT department.

A lot of you work in IT, but I don't think either survey would be extremely flattering to those involved.

I think IT recently passed accounting and took over the bottom spot in a nationwide survey asking employees which department they least liked.

[Merusk]

 

You're right it's not, not anywhere.  IT took the beating from my co-workers when I was in production answering questions because people didn't want to call IT and I am taking it now that I'm in IT.  In both positions I can point to where the loudest complaints came from the user not knowing their damn software or best practices 90% of the time.  

No, storing your important stuff in Deleted items is NOT a good idea.  No, you shouldn't be using a 750mb 25MP image shrunk to 4x5 on an 8x11 flyer. No, you shouldn't be attempting to print a 97 page document through the sheet feeder.  No, you shouldn't be putting granite samples on the copier glass to make an image book. No, SketchUp is not a valid software to try and produce high quality renderings with the default engine.  No, your Mac can't save to the network, work locally and copy it over like Adobe says to because they don't know how to code a goddamn back-up save process.

It doesn't help that most IT folks can't explain in plain English why a problem happened, or that those who can often have to explain it to people who think computers are magic and understand intent vs. rigidly ordered and only do exactly what you tell them to.

 "I didn't do anything different." Which later becomes "... except for these 5 things" as you walk through the process with them.

TLDR:  People who don't know how to use Tech are the ones who bitch, and there are tons of them.  Which also means there are going to be tons of unemployable people as software continues to cycle ever-faster and moves to "software as service" requiring users to re-learn the newest version instead of,  "just sticking with Office 97 because I know how to use it."

[Bunk]

 No, you shouldn't be using a 750mb 25MP image shrunk to 4x5 on an 8x11 flyer.

For me about three times a week: No, you can't shrink down that 25MP image and stick it in your email stationary, then send it to 900 people.
Whomever invented the idea of "stationary" for email should be shot.

I've found in our company that the IT department generally gets a pass. They get overlooked in the war between Sales and Customer Care. I've done both over the last ten years, and both think the other to be fully incompetent, or out to sabotage them. Of course now a big chunk of my job is working as a go between for them. Fun.

[Merusk]

 No, you shouldn't be using a 750mb 25MP image shrunk to 4x5 on an 8x11 flyer.

For me about three times a week: No, you can't shrink down that 25MP image and stick it in your email stationary, then send it to 900 people.
Whomever invented the idea of "stationary" for email should be shot.

See, I can forgive that ignorance to a point with common users.  Ok, you made a mistake let's rectify it and here's why you don't do that again.   

However, the people I'm having to yell at about it are professional Graphic Designers with degrees and everything.  People who should know better as they're doing t his for a living 9-10 hours a day.  They're pitching a fit when their nearly-gigabyte .AI or .ID file takes an eternity to spool then crashes the printer.

[HaemishM]

Whomever invented the idea of "stationary" for email should be shot.

Substitute "v-cards" for "stationary" and "shot" for "have their genitals eaten slowly by rabid rats" and you have my feelings on the subject. I FUCKING HATE V-CARDS. Fuck you, Microsoft.

[Numtini]

Where I work, I was once told by a user I'd shown how to cut and paste that she didn't need to go over it again because if she ever had to do it again, she'd call me.

I am not Miss Popularity here.

[HaemishM]

Where I work, I was once told by a user I'd shown how to cut and paste that she didn't need to go over it again because if she ever had to do it again, she'd call me.

OH HELLLLLLLLL NO.

[Sky]

I love user disdain when you try and show someone a keyboard shortcut.

Then again, my own fiancee refuses to use scroll wheels and still uses scroll bars. As someone beyond scroll wheels into touch scrolling on a Magic Mouse 

[Ingmar]

I'll just point out that you could most likely do a survey of how people feel about the people in their sales department, and the people in their IT department.

A lot of you work in IT, but I don't think either survey would be extremely flattering to those involved.

That's just the nature of a job where 1) people mostly only see you when something is broken, so they're already upset and 2) like 75% of the job is telling people 'no'.

[Yegolev]

End user support is balls.

[Paelos]

That's just the nature of a job where 1) people mostly only see you when something is broken, so they're already upset and 2) like 75% of the job is telling people 'no'.

No doubt. I just found a sort of glass houses  when people bitched about sales. Yeah, some of them suck, but I guess we're not stocked up on mirrors.

[Rasix]

Stomach flu.  YAAAY.   

[WayAbvPar]

I love our IT folks. I know enough to not burden them with stupidity, and they in turn respect me enough to explain why things went haywire and how they are fixing them. Most of the time it is not a knowledge thing but a permissions thing, and we both roll our eyes at management policies that actively interfere with people, you know, doing their fucking jobs.

Stomach flu.  YAAAY.   

Nothing sucks worse than vomiting (or even just being nauseated) while sober. Fuck that.

[Yegolev]

I had something to say about people in IT but I realized it would offend many, many F13 posters.

[Ironwood]

I'm fairly sure it wouldn't.

[Yegolev]

Oh man.

[Ingmar]

I just had performance review training today, nothing you can say can hurt me now.

[Merusk]

I'm fairly sure it wouldn't.

It wouldn't and he most likely wouldn't be wrong in the critique.  Like all other professions IT is littered with people of various abilities and shortcomings.  

Just so happens that most of those shortcomings are directly related to the personality type it takes to be IN the profession to start with.  Which Yeg knows anyway as he's in the field like a good portion of the posters.

[Abagadro]

Colleague and guy I am friendly with just got busted doing some really gnarly drug shit and is likely going to prison for a very long time. I had no clue. First time I've been in this position and it's really weird.

[Cyrrex]

Really gnarly?  Like what?

[Ironwood]

Making blue meth.