Useless Conversation

[ghost]

I look like a potato on toothpicks.  I need to start working out again. 

[RhyssaFireheart]

*burp*

Department pot luck holiday party.  Good lords, so much food!  It was insane!

See, all this working out talk is extra topical today.  Thanks!

[Rasix]

I look like a potato on toothpicks.  I need to start working out again. 

Interesting visual.

I'm pretty much the young version of Monty Burns.  My family is starting to bug me about gaining weight.   

[Ingmar]

I look like a potato on toothpicks.  I need to start working out again. 

Interesting visual.

I'm pretty much the young version of Monty Burns.  My family is starting to bug me about gaining weight.   

Maybe we could combine you and Kildorn into an actual entire person.

I haven't stepped on the scale since before the holiday fail time started but I'm pretty sure I've gained back at least 10 of the 30ish pounds I lost since February.

[Samwise]

I'm down 40 pounds after about 5-6 months of calorie-cutting and I'm trying to keep my momentum up (down?) through the holidays.  I've got about 5 pounds to go till I'm in the "healthy" BMI range (having been in the lower end of "obese" at the start of summer).

Wearing the same size jeans I did in high school and it's awesome. 

[Draegan]

Good for you.  I gained 10 lbs with the onset of football season, and I've lost it.  Now I need to lose another 10-15 lbs and be in "amazing shape" like when I was 19.

Amazing shape is completely subjective!

[Cyrrex]

Word of caution: use something that actually counts your fat percentage to determine your BMI.  If you are just going by averages (like those calcs you find all over the net), you might be way off in one direction or the other.  Your body composition means everything.  Weight is just a number.

[ghost]

BMI is a bit of a load of shit, really. 

Is anyone trying the twinkie diet?

[Cyrrex]

BMI is a bit of a load of shit, really. 

Is anyone trying the twinkie diet?

In other words, anyone willing to admit to being morbidly stupid?

[Nebu]

Word of caution: use something that actually counts your fat percentage to determine your BMI.  If you are just going by averages (like those calcs you find all over the net), you might be way off in one direction or the other.  Your body composition means everything.  Weight is just a number.

Weight is a meaningless number.  I can be 8% body fat at 205 lbs as easily as at 170 lbs.  I just look VERY different.  I don't even worry about BMI anymore.  If I can see my 6-pack clearly, then I know I'm about 6-8%.  I think that you know when you feel good in your own skin.  The rest are just numbers.

[Draegan]

I'm 6'2 223 and I don't think I'm near over weight, nor am I "in shape".  But in order to to be "average" with BMI I would have to drop 40-50 lbs which is impossible. I would be looking at my six pack if I dropped to around 195 or so.  I haven't seen that number since I was 18/19, maybe.

[Furiously]

He looks like he isn't going to have too much issue with skin elasticity. I have had a few friend that have lost several hundred pounds and all of them had dangles of skin hanging off of them afterwords.

[ghost]

BMI is a bit of a load of shit, really. 

Is anyone trying the twinkie diet?

In other words, anyone willing to admit to being morbidly stupid?

I think it would be interesting to see it recreated.  I am into the idea of the overall number of calories being very important, in addition to eating smaller meals multiple times per day. 

[Abagadro]

Had the office christmas lunch today and one of the white elephant gifts was two live chickens.

[Nebu]

I'm 6'2 223 and I don't think I'm near over weight, nor am I "in shape".  But in order to to be "average" with BMI I would have to drop 40-50 lbs which is impossible. I would be looking at my six pack if I dropped to around 195 or so.  I haven't seen that number since I was 18/19, maybe.

I'm 6' and 205.  My last checkup the doc told me that I needed to lose 30 lbs.  I lifted my shirt and asked him to tell me how I'd do that without losing muscle mass.  We both agreed that his BMI chart was worthless in the case of anyone lifting weights regularly. 

[Rasix]

Had the office christmas lunch today and one of the white elephant gifts was two live chickens.

Better than handcuffs, and the prerequisite creepy guy that "steals" them from someone else.

[ghost]

I'm 6' and 205.  My last checkup the doc told me that I needed to lose 30 lbs.  I lifted my shirt and asked him to tell me how I'd do that without losing muscle mass.  We both agreed that his BMI chart was worthless in the case of anyone lifting weights regularly. 

Sounds like your doctor needs to get his head out of his ass, if that was his recommendation. 

[Ingmar]

I'm 6' and 205.  My last checkup the doc told me that I needed to lose 30 lbs.  I lifted my shirt and asked him to tell me how I'd do that without losing muscle mass.  We both agreed that his BMI chart was worthless in the case of anyone lifting weights regularly. 

Sounds like your doctor needs to get his head out of his ass, if that was his recommendation. 

Depends on body type as much as anything. If I was at 205 pounds I'd need to lose 35-40, and I'm 6'1". It would be evident from looking at me, though, as it probably should have been evident to the doctor that he was wrong in this case.

[Merusk]

Hey now, let's just back off for a second and congratulate Nebu on keeping a blind man employed.

Well done, Neb.  Well done.

[Morat20]

My 14 year old is a moron. He has a Wii-fit, which claims -- through some sorcery -- that he has 25% body fat. (Not even remotely true). So he starts cutting calories and exercising, without actually INFORMING anyone. (The exercising was just tiny shit, but he cut a lot of food -- especially at lunch where we can't monitor him).

He did that right after a growth spurt, and he's down 15 pounds in 3 months. He's dead-center of the weight-range for his height, but as a growing kid that's on the low side.

We finally found out about it and had to have a long discussion about nutrition, and how "Eating less" can be worse than eating too much if what you CHOOSE to eat is mostly fried cheese. *bangs head*. We had a long talk about fats, simple sugars, and the fucking importance of trying to get some damn vegetables in your diet.

*bangs head*. I think we got it across to him that "going on a diet" or "starting an exercise plan" or even a goal of "losing weight" requires a bit of forethought, and not simply forgoing food if you'd like to avoid stunting your growth, getting sick, missing important vitamins and minerals, etc.

[rattran]

I blame the parents.

[Nebu]

Sounds like your doctor needs to get his head out of his ass, if that was his recommendation. 

I had just moved to the town and this was the first GP I encountered.  If my job didn't request that I get an annual physical, I doubt I'd ever go to a GP again. 

[ghost]

Sounds like your doctor needs to get his head out of his ass, if that was his recommendation. 

I had just moved to the town and this was the first GP I encountered.  If my job didn't request that I get an annual physical, I doubt I'd ever go to a GP again. 

Don't you know physicians through your work? 

[Sky]

I'm 5'11" and 190, lost about 25 lbs over the last 5 years adjusting my diet. Could probably stand to lose another 15 to be perfect, but I'm not sweating it. I'm in decent shape and eat well. Best part of losing that weight, I didn't even know it. She brought over the scale to weigh the cat and when I stepped on to calibrate to my weight, it was a nice surprise.

My hunt for GP has sunk to asking my lawyer friends which ones have the least lawsuits against them. I wish I was kidding, this area is a pit in a lot of ways.

[Nebu]

Don't you know physicians through your work? 

Let's just say that I was lured away by another university and the climate here is entirely lab based.  I'm almost a pure synthetic chemist now and I'm loving it.  That being the case, I don't know any physicians in the area that I'd take my dog to.  I usually fly to get health care.  Thankfully, being fit means that happens almost never.

[Sky]

My fiancee turned to me after hearing the average time for heart attacks at a hospital 45 minutes away, "you realize it would be faster to go there and get treated than get treated at our local hospital?" I told her that's why I have a standing order to be taken to that hospital and BY NO MEANS EVER to our local hospital. The one that had my mother sitting for 9 hours without any pain medication, sitting in a hard plastic chair with sciatica. Watching her bite down on her screams the entire time made me fucking stabby.

[Yegolev]

How do people get degrees in science with this kind of thinking? 

Peer review?

Also I am suspicious of BMI charts in many cases.

[Murgos]

A BMI chart is what it is.  A general guideline, I'm not defending it but if you know what it is and what it isn't you can make an informed decision.

From what I understand, if you get the BMI index of every person in the country and graph it against longevity in the Y access and BMI in the X axis you get a normal curve with the peak of the normal curve where they put the range that says 'healthy' (and probably 1 sigma of that).

It has nothing to do with you personally and everything to do with statistics.  People with a BMI in the 'healthy' range tend to live longer, now there is a LOT of other factors that go into you, so yeah doctors who just go, "Your BMI sucks lose 30 lbs" and don't evaluate you are probably not doing a very good job.  But, in probably 97% of the people who walk through their door, it's right.

Edit: I wanted point out that the simple nature of the BMI chart is one of its biggest problems.  I've seen criticisms that old people who have lived a long time often get sick at the end of their life and lose a lot of weight just before dying are thought to skew the BMI index pretty heavily.  And anyone with a passing familiarity with statistical analysis can probably see various holes in the basic premise of the chart.

[Cyrrex]

Any doctor that calculates your BMI using a chart is just being lazy.  The charts are based on averages according to your height, weight and sex, and take no other factors into account.  It is useless and misleading in almost every case, and I doubt that it is even close to 97% accurate.  Honestly, just telling you to take your shirt off would be a better way of telling if you need to lose weight.

The best practical way to measure BMI is to take actual fat measurements on the three to six relevant points on your body.  When you factor that it, you can get your (nearly) exactly BMI measurement.  Any method that doesn't involve either this method, some water displacement I've heard about, or actual disection of your body that measures the actual amount of fat is going to be inaccurate.  Possibly wildly so.

[ghost]

A BMI chart is good for research and as a rough guideline for treatment.  The drug companies want to try to shunt us into using it as a firm cutoff point for medications, etc, just like blood pressure.  I hope that doesn't happen. 

[rattran]

Lecturing Nebu on doctoring is 

[ghost]

Who is lecturing Nebu?  It seems more like a conversation.   

[Nebu]

I certainly didn't take it in a bad way.  I was just pointing out how silly some MD's can be.  Often society thinks education = intelligence.  It's very much not the case for most physicians. 

[ghost]

I'm not sure where these people lose their ability to think critically.  I went to medical school with a lot of very quality people.  And some of them even went on to be GPs.  

We better digress before this gets into politics.  


Edit:  And I have to admit, knowing some of your background, that I was surprised that you didn't tell the physician to get his head out of his ass when you were at the appointment.    

[Nebu]

Edit:  And I have to admit, knowing some of your background, that I was surprised that you didn't tell the physician to get his head out of his ass when you were at the appointment.    

I'm a teacher at heart and try my best to educate rather than demean.  Sometimes, sarcasm is pretty damn hard to resist.  

Edit: I also have almost no clinical experience having spent most of my years in research.  I'm not sure that I could handle the day-to-day of clinical practice.