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Xanthippe
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on: September 17, 2006, 10:48:14 PM

I got my hunter, Gidget, to level 12.  The levelling started to bog down because I began doing a bunch of the little side quests, which started to all feel the same.  So, I went back to the epic quest, which is really cool.

Fooling around a bit with being a Forester, which means I can gather wood and make some weapons.  I can also farm, but I haven't yet tried that.  I'm assuming there will be some sort of central Auction or marketplace where I can buy and sell things.  I don't mind having to rely upon other professions to make stuff, as long as that stuff is available for purchase through some central mechanism.  Either an in-game auction channel (which is not the most desirable way to go) or a central auction house/marketplace where you can dump stuff to sell and buy stuff (like WoW or SWG).

Combat's not thrilling me, but at least I kill stuff before it kills me.  Loremaster was problematic for me.  Definitely needs to be beefier.  The hunter pace is decent - I wouldn't want to see anything slower, it should be the base speed for all the classes.  Of course, this is 12.  I don't know how grindy it starts to feel at 20.

I have no idea what traits are or conjunctions.  I'm one of those people who never RTFMs until/unless I have to.  I prefer not to ever have to.  In fact, I married someone who loves to RTFM, so that works out well for me.

It's pretty.  I like the different armor colors, but wish I could dye my own junk so it matches.  And I hope Turbine spends some money on some people who can design clothing.  I like dress up in games.

I've collected hides, which I won't be using, silver ore and some torn thingies.  Who needs stuff for crafting? I can mail it, right?

I'm looking forward to farming, but figured I need more cash PLUS I have no idea what to do with farmed goods.   Sell them to cooks, I suppose.
Signe
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Reply #1 on: September 17, 2006, 11:09:08 PM

I don't know what to do with farming, either.  Next time I'm on, I'll mail you some money, though.  Crafting needs to be more fun, and by fun I mean more customisable for things like armour, weapon, clothing, etc.  I don't know what to say about wookworking, farming and cooking because I have sussed that stuff yet.  I like woodworking when I have my own house.  Not so much making staffs and bows and that sort of thing.  I like creating clothes and dressing up, too, which is one of the only reasons I miss SWG and CoX.  I kind of wish I looked better too.  I'm SO not happy with the female models in LOTRO.  I'm crossing my fingers that they improve the models and give crafting a bit of an "oomph." 

It's hard to type with crossed fingers.   undecided

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Xanthippe
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Reply #2 on: September 18, 2006, 01:04:03 PM

I don't have any need for money, not yet, anyway.  I gather they lowered the cost of the tools.

Yeah, my elf looks like every other elf.  My human looks like my elf too.

And I have realistic-sized boobies.  WTF!?!

sam, an eggplant
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Reply #3 on: September 18, 2006, 03:04:28 PM

Anyone else who hasn't logged in since alpha? I need some exciting patchnotes to get me back in, not just more of the same with bugfixes, polish, and 5 more levels.
WayAbvPar
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Reply #4 on: September 18, 2006, 05:00:34 PM

I have jumped in game briefly a couple of times, but the thought of grinding out LEVELS just makes me sad. I think EVE has spoiled me for all DIKU derivations.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

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Reply #5 on: September 19, 2006, 09:38:29 AM

I think I made level 12 on my Captain Bobbi (or something I'll have to check his name).  Going to reroll as a Guardian as they are meant to be one of the most balanced classes (according to what I have read on the beta forums), Captain started to feel a bit combat weak even after upgrading all his equipment.

The games actually a lot better than I thought it would be.  The leveling seems a reasonable speed but I have read it's been speeded up for Beta, not sure I'd want it any slower.  There's no sound till you enter the world so I thought my sound was broken during the client boot up and character creation.  Combat is a bit bland so far, chat window needs a bit of work.  The UI in general is a lot better than DDO beta.  I really thought I'd hate this game but I think the open world is a vast improvement over DDO, I'm surprised how easy it has been to solo so far as well.
Xanthippe
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Reply #6 on: September 19, 2006, 12:09:02 PM

The leveling seems a reasonable speed but I have read it's been speeded up for Beta, not sure I'd want it any slower. 

That would be a terrible decision, in my opinion - to speed up levelling for Beta.

It feels about right to me, levelling a hunter.  Loremaster was punishing due to deaths.
Rasix
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Reply #7 on: September 19, 2006, 12:22:55 PM

They usually speed up betas to get people testing the entire scope of what's available.  Plus, once you get to final, "for the good of the game" becomes "for the optimum player retention rate".   Of course, there's other ways to get people to test your upper tier/late level content.. but that takes EFFORT.

Of course, the last game to severely throttle back beta to live exp got a rather speedy cancellation from me.  I don't really like crawling through slow PVE.  And to draw another parallel to DAoC, it's combat had a similar fault that ended up adding to my dislike for the general progression of the game: slow combat speed.

Cal, scream it from the rooftops: the combat just moves too slowly.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 12:41:02 PM by Rasix »

-Rasix
Xanthippe
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Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 12:27:13 PM

I have to agree.

Best combat speed in a mmo I've seen is CoX.  Worst is DAoC (I agree with you that this rivals DAoC's speed).

WoW is in the middle, I think, but way speedier.  Speedy combat and fun are directly proportionate.
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Reply #9 on: September 19, 2006, 12:54:01 PM

Can you give me details on what exactly you mean by combat moving too slowly? I think I know what you mean, but I want to be sure.

Also I am not sure we've intentionally sped up XP gain. I'll check, but I'm pretty sure we haven't. It might get tweaked, but I don't think we increased XP gain by 2x or something just for Beta.
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Reply #10 on: September 19, 2006, 01:06:36 PM

It's a combination of things really.  First of all, weapons as a whole are too slow.  One handers are tollerably fast enough, but already you can do a two count before you swing again.  Two handed weapons I won't even use just because I can't stand to wait 4 seconds in between swings.  It feels like Dark Age, EQ, and FFXI (REALLY SLOW COMBAT) where the pace just feels languid.

There's also the fact that most (if not all) weapon abilities seem to be "on next swing" and not instant.  So you've got to wait for the already slow combat timer to pull off your move.  Plus, on top of that many moves have animations that just add to the execution time of the move.  Examples of this are the shield moves for the guardian that have very slow animations.  The block/swipe/stun combination is extremely slow due to both moves having complex animations.   This fact makes two handers very poor since you've got to wait for the slower combat timer to execute moves.  I wonder if the time considerations makes two handers a poor choice for DPS given that you can pull off more moves in less time with a 1 hander (damage added doesn't seem to be normalized based on speed).

Victory in combat seems to rely on using your special moves to deal damage but these moves and the combat itself are just on too slow of a timer.  It's combining the aspects of "hit autoattack and go make a sandwich" with the WoW mentality of using your abilities to their fullest to win.  It's a system that demands action and yet moves at a snails pace.  It's extremely frustrating.

-Rasix
Yoru
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Reply #11 on: September 19, 2006, 01:35:57 PM

I'd agree with Rasix's assessment. It's a system that demands input to succeed, but it demands input at a relatively slow pace. Every, say, 2-10 seconds, depending on type of input and class, would be my stab in the dark at the input rates. Caught between frenetic action and passivity.

Then you look at older autoattack-and-wait games, (drawing on my experience back in the day with Anarchy Online and straight-up Dikumuds) where your input was to start combat and MAYBE hit a key or two over the course of the 45-90 second battle; probably a 10-20 second input interval on average, maybe more or less depending on class. Compare that to the actiony WoW and... well, go watch a video; you'll see people hammering at the hotbar, constantly, desperately trying to shave milliseconds off their responses, even though the damn things are on a timer.

Not that I'm advocating passivity here, but it certainly doesn't capture the fast-paced action we got in the LOTR movies. If your target is a WoW-competitor, then I'd think you'll need to be around that hammer-it-shave-off-a-second pace it has. You may or may not have some focus group results that say that people are looking for a slower-paced game than WoW, but my impressions of the Gaming Youth of today wouldn't match up with that.
Calandryll
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Reply #12 on: September 19, 2006, 03:36:39 PM

Ok, just to dive a little deeper. So the timing between attacks is too slow, but the actual time it takes to complete a fight is okay? Is that a fair overview of what you are saying?
Rasix
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Reply #13 on: September 19, 2006, 03:50:39 PM

Ok, just to dive a little deeper. So the timing between attacks is too slow, but the actual time it takes to complete a fight is okay? Is that a fair overview of what you are saying?

I didn't touch upon your second point, but yes, fights complete in a reasonable manner.  If they completed faster due to faster melee, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

The real problem is that you've got too much time between swings and slow timers on a game that rewards constant interaction.  These interactions can only occur in the intervals of the swing time or when the timer is up.  The result is slow/boring melee interactions. 

For some classes, take guardians, timers aren't really the problem.  They refresh fast enough and you've got enough attacks to where you almost never have to just use autoattack.  The problem is the application of the timers is based off the timing between swings, which is too long.

So my overview is: the time between swings is too long.  It makes what could be a very interactive combat experience slow and plodding.

Edit:

To expand on why this is troubling, LOTRO combat doesn't benefit at all from a slower base attack speed.

There's no real great visceral feel to the combat that would benefit it being at a slower pace.  The enemy doesn't reel back in pain when my sword comes in contact with it, there's no visible damage, the display of damage done and swing contact time don't synch, etc.  Only some monster actually fall down when I nail them with a knockdown attack. 

If anything like, Yoru said, it makes the game feel less epic.  I feel less like Gimli tearing through orcs and leveling blow after viscious blow and more like his younger cousin whose abilities extend to beating down the occasional surly wolf.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 04:01:43 PM by Rasix »

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Calandryll
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Reply #14 on: September 19, 2006, 04:00:24 PM

Understood and added to my feedback document. You aren't the only person saying that.
Yoru
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Reply #15 on: September 19, 2006, 04:33:52 PM

Edit:

To expand on why this is troubling, LOTRO combat doesn't benefit at all from a slower base attack speed.

There's no real great visceral feel to the combat that would benefit it being at a slower pace.  The enemy doesn't reel back in pain when my sword comes in contact with it, there's no visible damage, the display of damage done and swing contact time don't synch, etc.  Only some monster actually fall down when I nail them with a knockdown attack. 

If anything like, Yoru said, it makes the game feel less epic.  I feel less like Gimli tearing through orcs and leveling blow after viscious blow and more like his younger cousin whose abilities extend to beating down the occasional surly wolf.

Yes, exactly - the combat isn't fun to watch, but it's paced at a speed that obligates you to passively watch it for a good amount of time. It's two models animating at each other until one falls over, not a Legendary Struggle for Survival in the Grand Wilderness of Middle Earth. The wide open spaces (which is very pretty!) feel epic. The city of Bree feels huge. But when I hit something, it doesn't react, and there isn't even a spray of sweat when my war-hammer clocks some bandit upside the noggin. (I'm assuming you don't want blood so the ESRB rating stays down.) My enemy does not look more ragged towards the end of the fight, nor do I. It feels static.

I'll try to log in sometime soon and listen to it to see if I can level that critique against the aural quality of the game as well; I only dimly recall clunks and grunts.

Single-enemy fights also don't help; we're back to old-school here's-an-enemy,-here's-some-loot,-here's-another-enemy gameplay, whereas both the books and movies have the characters fairly often outnumbered, surrounded, or otherwise engaged with multiple enemies. This may not be true in a party, I've yet to really try that beyond duoing some newbie quests back in Beta2 with Yegolev.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #16 on: September 19, 2006, 05:34:45 PM

Also I am not sure we've intentionally sped up XP gain. I'll check, but I'm pretty sure we haven't. It might get tweaked, but I don't think we increased XP gain by 2x or something just for Beta.

When I said I read that, it was just some poster, I assumed he was right because the leveling speed didn't feel too bad.  I hope you don't raise it, fast leveling with characters that play differently hasn't hurt WoW's retention.

On a separate note, you get cash far too fast.  I rolled up a 2nd character tonight, didn't gind, just did the first few quests.  By the time I hit the first vendor I had more than double the amount needed for the most expensive weapon sold, yet I was level 4 when the item was level 5 restricted (I think).  I imagine the money will be sucked out of circulation by repair bills, personally I'd rather get far less money and have to save for what I want, rather than waste money and time on excessive repairing.  If I remember correctly Aragorn entered the blacksmith's only once, for a weapon that was still effective even though it was a few thousand years old.  Another option would be to go a different direction to WoW and make epic items have cheaper repair costs.
Rasix
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Reply #17 on: September 19, 2006, 05:39:36 PM

Quote
Another option would be to go a different direction to WoW and make epic items have cheaper repair costs.

*deleted.  I don't read so good.*

But yah, I had more money than I knew what do to with at level 20.  I could easily fully re-buy armor/weapon/shield(s) every couple of levels with it only denting my wallet.

Edit:
The reason cash flow might be so high later on is that so few quests are actually itemized.

Edit #2: Reading comprehension is HARD.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 05:49:27 PM by Rasix »

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Reply #18 on: September 19, 2006, 05:48:47 PM

Yes, WoW Epics cost a lot to repair, that's why I said go a different direction to WoW.  Make the most rare items in LOTRO cheaper to repair than standard items (or require repairing less).  I'm only low level in LOTRO so no idea what repair costs are like at high level, but in WoW repairing just seems to be an unfun time/money sink.
Rasix
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Reply #19 on: September 19, 2006, 05:52:27 PM

It's pretty trivial compared to the cash flow (level 20ish).  I die as a form of teleportation. 

Only concern related to repairing I have is that shields/armor (weapons are a little better) get beat up really fast.  I don't like having to repair due to my amor breaking through general use in a play session.

It would be nice for higher quality items to degrade at a lower rate.

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Signe
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Reply #20 on: September 19, 2006, 05:55:42 PM

Shh!  I don't want them to make it harder to travel via the Death Train! 

I never repair anything until Darth Vader shows up and tells me to.

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Xanthippe
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Reply #21 on: September 19, 2006, 08:47:00 PM

Agreed with what's above about why combat feels slow. 

Also agree that money seems awfully easy to come by.  I assume that people will be buying other people's drops and crafted goods and so on, and it will all somehow work with the game economy. 

I hope they keep the bags at character creation.  That's such a pain in the ass in WoW and other MMOs to have to play the "manage inventory" game which usually translates into more running back and forth to sell shit.  I just hate that.
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Reply #22 on: September 19, 2006, 10:07:36 PM

I think I made level 12 on my Captain Bobbi (or something I'll have to check his name).  Going to reroll as a Guardian as they are meant to be one of the most balanced classes (according to what I have read on the beta forums), Captain started to feel a bit combat weak even after upgrading all his equipment.

Captain is one of the weakest classes - limited number of combat specials, slow 2-hander, and outrageous power cost for abilities.  They might be more interesting to play in a group but solo they're boring and barely able to solo even cons.  Guardians on the other hand can pretty much kill anything non-elite, get a good array of abilities and rarely have any issue with power.  Guardians is like playing in CoH - you can kill groups of below even con mobs, you can kill 2-3 even con mobs before needing to rest (which basically means trotting over to the next group of mobs), and can kill any orange con.  Last night I killed 3 white con invisi-wolves who gang attacked me in my travels.  I guess that's what the forums mean by most balanced.
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Reply #23 on: September 20, 2006, 02:22:15 AM

Guardians is like playing in CoH - you can kill groups of below even con mobs, you can kill 2-3 even con mobs before needing to rest (which basically means trotting over to the next group of mobs), and can kill any orange con.  Last night I killed 3 white con invisi-wolves who gang attacked me in my travels.  I guess that's what the forums mean by most balanced.

I prefer to use the phrase "most balanced", yes Guardian even at early levels seems a lot more powerful than Captain (My Captain is not level 12 but 9 when I checked, my new Guardian is level 7).  I don't think Guardian needs to be nerfed, instead they need to make the weaker classes stronger.  From AC2, Defender and Feral were by far the most powerful classes at release, both were quite fun to play, both got nerfed badly.  Tactians (sp?) in AC2 leveled groups too fast and were fun, they got major nerfage, Archers in AC2 Beta were rapid firing death dealers, they got nerfed even before release.  AC2 was the most balanced game ever, every character ended up equally unfun. 

Playing a Guardian at the moment feels like cheating, that's not a bad thing, I remember feeling my Rogue in WoW was a lord of destruction yet Blizzard managed to balance them by making the other classes equally fun to play.
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Reply #24 on: September 20, 2006, 03:02:01 AM

I actually don't think the hotkey mashing is too slow. CoH is not an even comparison because there's no default attack (yes I know you can Option click on any power to turn on auto repeat mode but that's not the same thing) -- i.e. you have to keep hitting keys to do any damage at all. If you sped up skills significantly in LOTRO you wouldn't have time to do your auto attack, at least not until you ran out of power. Because of power management issues in LOTRO I'm already not hitting skills as fast as I can in situations where I have to pace myself. In addition because of the very short "windows" on some the trigger skills (skills that are only available when certain events happen) I often miss them if I'm doing something during that time like repositioning myself cause of an add or something ("You must face your target", grrr). There are also situations where you want to space out your skills. For example, if you do one of the Minstrel DD songs, that'll "interrupt" your auto attack cycle since that makes you do the goofy weapon point. For a better damage to power expended per unit time ratio you are better off doing DD song, wait for auto attack, DD song, wait for auto attack, etc. rather than DD song, DD song, DD song. And with my Guardian I can keep hitting my three "base" skills over and over because of their refresh times just like a CoH 3 power attack chain.

Here are some of my complaints about combat.

* 1H hammers and clubs are way too dinky. I can't even really see my hammer in combat cause I keep my view zoomed out and the hammer is so small.

* The attack animations need work. E.g. like I said above the weapon point of doom ranged DD skills are just goofy. It's slightly better than EQ2's finger point of doom since at least you are pointing your weapon but not by much. There also need to be more variation and for the love of the FSM please stop having my characters "stab" with non-stabbing weapons.

* Power regen in combat is way way too slow. I've literally been in battles solo against elites with my Minstrel that took 5 minutes or more to complete. Even with my Minstrel buff I was only regening enough power every minute or so to get off one heal song. So the combat went something like burn all my power to get the elite to half dead then auto attack the rest of the way with a heal thrown in every minute or so. I do like, though, that you do have to worry about power management in combat I just don't like how slow it is to regen in combat.

* Along with that I hate how you automatically go into combat mode even if you are running away or just trying to avoid combat during travel. I understand why it happens but it's still really annoying.

* I don't like the Minstrel chain songs. It makes no sense that I can only sing song B after I sing song A. It also means that sometimes I'm mashing songs not caring what they actually are just so I can eventually get to a song later down in the chain. I do like the Guardian's "reactive" skills -- those make sense to me.

* However the triggers need to be much more obvious. Yes there are "Block" and "Parry" that float up (quick which color are they?) but I basically have to watch the skill bar if I expect to be able to trigger them in time because of their short trigger windows. There needs to be better sounds or something when these events occur. With the Minstrel I don't have to watch cause I'm in control of the trigger events.

* I don't like the Minstrel DD song sounds -- the whole electronic dissonant chord thing is annoying. It also doesn't look or sound like I'm singing or playing a song -- I'm basically just doing that weapon point of doom thing every time.

* I don't like how you instantly wield/sheath your weapon. Yes I know it's a lot of work to animate all that but games like FF XI have been doing for a long time so it's something you would expect in a major title.

* Let us queue up one skill. It's a pain waiting for the Guardian shield bash animation to finish so I can trigger the stun move.

* I don't like how you hear a "hit" sound even if a creature misses you.

* Need...throwing...knives...did these things get taken out of the game?

* Please put display timers on all buffs. The Minstrel and Guardian have long lasting buffs with no display timers. Yes it's easy to reapply if you are a Guardian (Minstrel's takes a while and you have to be standing still) but there are plenty of times I've gone into battle without them cause I don't notice that they've dropped.
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Reply #25 on: September 20, 2006, 03:07:55 AM

It's pretty trivial compared to the cash flow (level 20ish).  I die as a form of teleportation. 
I would do that more often if all the weapons and armor I had in my bags didn't take damage as well. Please either remove that or give us storage boxes/vaults/banks.
Xanthippe
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Reply #26 on: September 20, 2006, 09:28:14 AM


* Along with that I hate how you automatically go into combat mode even if you are running away or just trying to avoid combat during travel. I understand why it happens but it's still really annoying.

Especially annoying if it's a grey con mob.

Rasix
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Reply #27 on: September 21, 2006, 12:32:56 PM

Gah, board ate post.  Try #2.

I have a gripe from playing last night which might only be significant for me.  Lynxes you fight in the Loneland have battle sounds that sound like house cats fighting.  Being a cat owner, the sound of domestic feline battle is nails on a chalk board.  I had to turn off the sound or it was going to drive me batty.  Might want to make the sound a bit closer to a mountain lion and less like a tabby.

Also, the user directed experience tends to fall apart a bit post 20.  I have no idea where I'm supposed to go for quests my level.  Lonelands have a few (some really poorly written so it's hard to find your query) but a lot of what I have is starting to grey out.  I attribute part of this to the story line not picking up again. Is it supposed to continue after you beat the wight and talk to Gandalf? I've gotten no indication in game as to where it or if it starts again.  The main plot was a great impetus keeping me going in the game, probably the most significant one.

-Rasix
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Reply #28 on: September 22, 2006, 10:05:03 AM

Played for a bit last night, with a Captain. I'm up to level 7 or so, a bit past when the Inn gets torched.

Captain seemed easy enough to solo thus far. I like the idea of abilities being status-dependent.

But anyway, even though I have not played a ton so far, my big question is:

What is going to really set this game apart, besides the LotR IP? What is going to make LotRO a better Game than WoW (because that's who it seems you are targetting as competition)?

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Signe
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Reply #29 on: September 22, 2006, 01:26:57 PM

You taking the piss?

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Reply #30 on: September 22, 2006, 06:45:22 PM

Also I am not sure we've intentionally sped up XP gain. I'll check, but I'm pretty sure we haven't. It might get tweaked, but I don't think we increased XP gain by 2x or something just for Beta.

Finally found the quote from August 10th, it's pretty vague.  Whatever is decided, I just hope exp gain isn't nerfed post release.

http://beta.lotro.com/showthread.php?p=8232#post8232

Quote from: Hakai
Leveling is fast in alpha. Expect this to be tweaked as we move forward.

As for the long term worry of not having the playtime we had when we were in college, I think that concern is in the minds of the devs. Making sure you can accomplish something in an hour or even half and hour is an important play goal. Whether we like it or not the devs are getting older too, and know what having a family does to playtime!

Cheers,

-Hakai

From today.

http://beta.lotro.com/showthread.php?p=46883#post46883

Quote from: Hakai
We will be adjusting the curve with plenty of time left in Beta to adjust it further and test out the systems that will be impacted by it changing. For various reasons previously stated it just isn't changing in the short term.
Xanthippe
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Reply #31 on: September 26, 2006, 01:32:12 PM

I'm now having trouble with my hunter at 17.  Maybe it's the particular quests I'm trying to do, but I just don't have a lot of power.  My equipment isn't that great, but it's not that bad either.  I should spend some of that jingle for upgrades to armor, but like I said, it's not that bad.  I have upgraded my weapons already.

I'm stuck on quests in the Barrow Downs, which are listed as level 14.  Also Chapter 3 first quest of the epic - I can't keep the guy alive because it takes me too long to get the mobs to beat on me instead of Underhill.

Frustration is setting in.  I'm feeling the way I felt on Loremaster at 7.

So is everyone who plays going to either group up or play a Guardian?  Or just skip the quests?
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Posts: 18942

Muse.


Reply #32 on: September 26, 2006, 05:33:57 PM

I haven't been on for a few days.  I have a bunch of stuff to do and went and bought about 6 or 7 console games.  I DO plan to play and when I log in (this week for sure), I'll do what ever you like.  We can group up and try and knock out some of our quests.  I'm 18 so we should both be able to get some stuff done.  I enjoy the game when I log in and play... I just wish it were a bit more compelling.  I don't always feel motivated.  I also want to try and sort out crafting.  I have enough stuff, I think, thanks to contributions.  Maybe people could list the sort of stuff they need and we can use the nifty keen mailing service to help each other out. 

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Xanthippe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4779


Reply #33 on: September 26, 2006, 05:53:30 PM

That sounds good.  Let me know when you want to play.  10am to 2pm pacific time is my most-likely time to be on.

I sent you a couple more gems that I found.  It seems orcs and goblins drop them.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23391


Reply #34 on: September 26, 2006, 06:05:02 PM

I'm stuck on quests in the Barrow Downs, which are listed as level 14.
You have to be careful not to aggro too many mobs in there.

Quote
Also Chapter 3 first quest of the epic - I can't keep the guy alive because it takes me too long to get the mobs to beat on me instead of Underhill.
That's a fellowship quest. I tried soloing it at 16 with my Guardian and was unable to do it. Definitely need at least a duo for that.
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