Invitation to Speculate: Blizzard and Havok 4

[Venkman]

So, why do YOU think Blizzard want so use Havok 4?

Console game likely, in my opinion. They COULD do something in some next expansion for WoW, but I can't assume everything they ever think about from here on in is going to be about Azeroth.

Thoughts?

[Strazos]

What kinda specs does it take to run something using Havok? If it's anything besides "pretty much any system can run it easily," it's not for WoW. The underwhelming, mediocre easy-to-run graphics are one of the game's big selling points.

[Trippy]

Well the press release sub heading says "Blizzard to use Havok 4.0 for both PC and Mac platforms" so that probably rules out a console game.

[Oban]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin

[Lantyssa]

Console game likely, in my opinion. They COULD do something in some next expansion for WoW, but I can't assume everything they ever think about from here on in is going to be about Azeroth.

Of course they have other games in mind.  Starcraft Galaxies, for example.

Is Havoc only good for FPS type games or could a 3-D sequal of one of their isometric games benefit significantly from it?  (Not that they couldn't make a new original property.)

[Viin]

Havoc is a physics engine, not a graphics engine. It can be used for anything (marble madness type games, even).

I've seen it used in RPG-type games before, with 3rd person.

Basically it can be used to dictate 3D objects and how they interact with the environment. Their cloth stuff is pretty darn cool.

[Yegolev]

This is like asking what I think someone might use a hammer for.  To hit things.  What might Havok be used for?  Physics simulations.  Of course, if we are here to just make wild guesses: Blizz played enough Titan Quest that they realized they needed to have that crazy ragdoll shit in Diablo 3.

[Samwise]

What kinda specs does it take to run something using Havok?

If you can run it on a Gamecube, you can run it on just about anything.

[Soln]

Starcraft.  It will be ressurected, if not already been redone for something.  /summon

[Lantyssa]

Havoc is a physics engine, not a graphics engine. It can be used for anything (marble madness type games, even).

I've seen it used in RPG-type games before, with 3rd person.

Basically it can be used to dictate 3D objects and how they interact with the environment. Their cloth stuff is pretty darn cool.

Yes, but if the playing field is too distant, one probably doesn't need the full power of Havoc to have decent looking physics.  A third person perspective works fine, I played Vampire Bloodlines that way, however the camera was still close to the action.  (We'll ignore that the physics engine was completely wasted in that game.)

Would it really add anything to Diablo though?  The camera is too far back and there really wasn't much of a way to add an interactive enviroment so I don't see it having anywhere near the impact it might in a first-person or over the shoulder third-person perspective.

[Venkman]

Well the press release sub heading says "Blizzard to use Havok 4.0 for both PC and Mac platforms" so that probably rules out a console game.

Yea, I wondered about that actually. It seemed like the release was mostly about Havok itself and how it can be used for both platforms. I think this because it was really the Havok team doing the talking, noting that Blizzard is nice enough to support both platforms. But Blizzard themselves were mum.

Personally, I hope it's Diablo 3 or Diablo MMO they plan to work on next. That's an IP i'd like to see get a true persistent world for (though Diablo 2 was arguably an MMO as well, just only having a textual public space).

[Margalis]

Why the hell doesn't someone make Diablo for a console? It's the type of game that would make a lot of sense on console. Imagine diablo but instead of clicking to move and to attack you just steer with a pad and press buttons to attack.

At some point I'll write up my screed on mouse vs. pad control, but the basic idea is that mouse is good for issuing orders and pads are good for actually moving. Given that in Diablo you only have one guy to control a pad seems like a logical choice.

[Yoru]

There was a port of Diablo 1 for the PSX. I remember playing it back in The Day(tm).

As for why someone doesn't port Diablo 2/Dungeon Siege/Titan Quest to a console... no idea. Or maybe they already have and I haven't been paying attention.

[Venkman]

Why the hell doesn't someone make Diablo for a console?

I'd buy whatever console did Diablo 3.

[angry.bob]

I'd buy whatever console did Diablo 3.

Consoles would be a good move, because the game's graphics will be made to only support 800x600. Insert fond memories of playing D2 in windowed mode on my 21" 1280X1024 monitor.

[Viin]

Havoc is a physics engine, not a graphics engine. It can be used for anything (marble madness type games, even).

I've seen it used in RPG-type games before, with 3rd person.

Basically it can be used to dictate 3D objects and how they interact with the environment. Their cloth stuff is pretty darn cool.

Yes, but if the playing field is too distant, one probably doesn't need the full power of Havoc to have decent looking physics.  A third person perspective works fine, I played Vampire Bloodlines that way, however the camera was still close to the action.  (We'll ignore that the physics engine was completely wasted in that game.)

That doesn't matter - the game client can dictate what is actually shown based on FoV and LoD settings, but that doesn't change that some dickhead just pushed a boulder down the side of a hill behind you - wether or not you are seeing it.

[WindupAtheist]

There was a port of Diablo 1 for the PSX. I remember playing it back in The Day(tm).

And it was awesome.  Two-player co-op made it into a really atmospheric Gauntlet.

[Venkman]

Hrm, wish I knew about that one...

Consoles would be a good move, because the game's graphics will be made to only support 800x600

Only if they went Wii. PS3 and Xbox 360 both support HD, and while I'm not sure about Sony, Microsoft requires all games made for the 360 to support HD (not sure which minimum, but this includes both resolution and aspect ratio). That doesn't mean they need to go 1280x1024, but they could now. It's about effing time.

[Yegolev]

Consoles would be a good move, because the game's graphics will be made to only support 800x600

Only if they went Wii. PS3 and Xbox 360 both support HD, and while I'm not sure about Sony, Microsoft requires all games made for the 360 to support HD (not sure which minimum, but this includes both resolution and aspect ratio). That doesn't mean they need to go 1280x1024, but they could now. It's about effing time.

What about the arcade titles on 360, those have to be HD as well?  I don't know a huge amount about the Wii Virutal Console but that might be an easy route to put one of these games out on a console.  Like Fate.

[Venkman]

The Arcade titles support HD. So, yea.

[Fabricated]

Instead of any class balancing or new content the next WoW patch will feature ragdolls.

You heard it here first.

[Chenghiz]

I've always thought that gibs and ragdolls would add a lot to WoW's PvP.  :-D

[Baldrake]

Havok isn't only for ragdoll. It is also used for collision detection and ballistics. E.g., WoW doesn't use Havok, but it does have physics to worry about -- when you jump on top of a house in Orgrimmar City and run on top of the roof, there are two physics computations going on - one to make you fall realistically, and the second to make sure you stay on top of the roof. It's not impossible they want to use Havok in some new game for more mundane reasons such as these. Havok's new release even handles avatar-terrain collision detection, which makes it easy to keep your avatar on the surface of the world. (You'd think that'd be easy, but hey, we all remember flying tanks.)

As for how much computational resources are required to run Havok: remember that tons of PS2 titles use it. The computational requirements depend on what you're asking the engine to do.

Most surprising title to be using Havok: Second Life.

[Bunk]

Actually, the physics in SL is quite good. When I tried it out, I went in to a public sandbox and built a 50' tall human pong board.

Catapults are fun too.

I kind of gave up on it though when I realized that my subscription fee only paid for a plot of land the size of a closet surrounded by 18000 other closets.

Oh, as for Havok - physics are nice and all, but it's not always perfect. Walk in to an inn in Oblivion and brush by a table. The resultant slow motion earthquake effect on the place settings is rather cheesy looking.