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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming Conferences and Conventions  |  AGC '06  |  Topic: Raph Gone Wild 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Raph Gone Wild  (Read 44744 times)
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 25966


Reply #70 on: September 15, 2006, 04:20:22 PM


Heh, I am not doing consulting. The talk is the outgrowth of watching trends for the last few years at SOE, where I was in a position high enough to see all the business stuff flying about.

You should be hearing about what I am doing very soon.


Maybe you should concentrate on your music.  Your Games Suck.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
koboshi
Contributor
Posts: 304

Camping is a legitimate strategy.


Reply #71 on: September 15, 2006, 04:41:29 PM

Oh My God!  Nearly every single poster in this board has said something truly inspired and intelligent at some point… but not here.  Not a one of you has understood the simple concept behind all of this,

You need money to make games.

Let me dumb this down for you and go back to an earlier analogy.  Many of you have been suffering under the delusion that you are nerds, at the nerd table, playing your nerdy game, you've all slipped back into your high school personas, understandable.  But here's the real analogy: Raff is the principal of a school with a wonderful athletics program so good in fact the school makes good money off the sale of tickets to its games.  Of course to make sure that more people could get in and those that don't pay are kept out the principal authorized the construction of a stadium for the football, soccer, and baseball teams.  This cost a lot of money, and after it was done it brought in even more money.  All this made the Board of Directors very happy and of course it made jocks very happy.  But why did principal Raph do it, sell out his school?  Raff realized as principal he was neglecting the other students.  The drama club didn't have a stage to act on, the only musical program was the marching band, and despite the fact that there was a science club, art club, and a Boy Scout troop, none of the members would admit to being part of them.  Raph was getting the money together so that he could build a stage for the drama club, a music program that included of classical and modern instruction, he wanted to harness the abilities of the truly gifted students in the science club by giving them lab time, equipment, and supervision, provide the artistic with the ability and the means to express themselves, and he was trying to put together enough money to send the Boy Scout troop to an actual forest where they could actually explore.

After reading that I want to get one thing clear, the reason why everyone of you was pissed off and dead set against him is because he's not trying to work for you. In fact he's working against you. Because you are the jocks.  You're the idiots who run around and pick on everyone else who comes anywhere near you.  You are the destroyer of artistic expression which does not serve to increase your egos.  You are given everything, time, money, equipment, attention, and you scream like children for more!

Raph is talking about market trends because he needs to pay to make your games, and as anyone here knows full well, our community is far too judgmental to pay upfront for something before it has been put out, and so the money does not come from us.  (Feel free to prove me wrong by forming a couple investment groups for gamers, I would welcome it)  So he must get money from those who have it.  Fortunately, the people who have it are easily lead creatures.  These walking penises believe that money is God, they will follow it, wherever it goes.  They will even follow when it points them towards games, a field they have absolutely no experience in.  So what has Raph been doing recently, he's been learning to heard these beasts, corral them into pens, to butcher them, so that you may eat.

But let's not be too easy on Raph has he has underestimated its prey, and so to have some on this board.  Myspace is not a model on which to follow economically, Myspace is an emergent social phenomena.  If you want Myspace in your game you're going to have to figure out how it happened, which is a much more complicated task than figuring out how to make a web page where people can put their pictures up.  Don't believe just because you captured the beast that you've broken it, many a developer will get tossed aside, broken, trying to tame that beast.

-We must teach them Max!
Hey, where do you keep that gun?
-None of your damn business, Sam.
-Shall we dance?
-Lets!
Llava
Contributor
Posts: 4602

Rrava roves you rong time


Reply #72 on: September 18, 2006, 07:15:39 AM

I'm largely in agreement with koboshi, though I couldn't put it to words earlier.  Frankly, the game industry is in the business of making money.  Though we really like the idea of it being "just for us", we're not exactly the largest market in the world.  I can't blame them for talking about trying to attract more people.  Fuck, if they lose every single one of us and bring in the entire Sims market, they're in better shape than they are now.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
WindupAtheist
Army of One
Posts: 7028

Badicalthon


Reply #73 on: September 18, 2006, 03:26:08 PM

Raph is talking about a bunch of shit we don't care about.  It's precisely as if he came in here and told us he realized the real money was in toilet seat manufacturing.  Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.  I don't care either way.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
Righ
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6542

Teaching the world Google-fu one broken dream at a time.


Reply #74 on: September 19, 2006, 08:48:29 AM

My theory is that its a diversionary tactic. If he can get a bunch of games developers who attended AGC to build virtual worlds for MySpace onanism, he'll have the gaming virtual world market to himself. He's a cunning man.

The camera adds a thousand barrels. - Steven Colbert
Raph
Developers
Posts: 1346

Title delayed while we "find the fun."


WWW
Reply #75 on: September 19, 2006, 10:09:55 AM

The real way to think of it is that I am sick of working on giant team big-budget extravaganzas. :)
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 37293

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #76 on: September 19, 2006, 11:51:47 AM

So you've given up the idea of making a GOOD virtual world then?

Roac
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3338


Reply #77 on: September 19, 2006, 12:12:05 PM

It's odd that for people who claim to like games, they seem to hate game developers so much.  I don't understand why you post here, Raph, but good luck with whatever it is you're up to.

-Roac
King of Ravens

"Young people who pretend to be wise to the ways of the world are mostly just cynics. Cynicism masquerades as wisdom, but it is the farthest thing from it. Because cynics don't learn anything. Because cynicism is a self-imposed blindness, a rejection of the world because we are afraid it will hurt us or disappoint us." -SC
Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 14095

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #78 on: September 19, 2006, 12:15:16 PM

Who here hates game developers?  undecided I'm not seeing it.  I'm seeing people being somewhat rude and kinda douchey, but that's it.

-Rasix
koboshi
Contributor
Posts: 304

Camping is a legitimate strategy.


Reply #79 on: September 19, 2006, 01:08:00 PM

Who here hates game developers?  undecided I'm not seeing it.  I'm seeing people being somewhat rude and kinda douchey, but that's it.
It woulden't be F13 if it wasen't.

-We must teach them Max!
Hey, where do you keep that gun?
-None of your damn business, Sam.
-Shall we dance?
-Lets!
schild
Administrator
Posts: 54247


WWW
Reply #80 on: September 19, 2006, 01:17:56 PM

Posting in a completely degenerated thread.
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 25966


Reply #81 on: September 20, 2006, 03:40:59 AM

Who here hates game developers?  undecided I'm not seeing it.  I'm seeing people being somewhat rude and kinda douchey, but that's it.


Nor do I.  I don't see anyone dragging this down to a personal level.  As to being rude :  We paid for these games.  It's the tone of dissatisfied customers you are hearing. 

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Signe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 18745

Muse.


Reply #82 on: September 20, 2006, 08:05:47 AM

I love game developers.  Sometimes I feed them breadcrumbs at the park.   Heart

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Endie
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6109


WWW
Reply #83 on: September 25, 2006, 08:35:20 AM


But this talk wasn't for the consumers, it was for the developers, publishers, and investors. :)
Not For You

My blog: http://endie.net

Twitter - Endieposts

"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
El Gallo
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Posts: 2211


Reply #84 on: September 25, 2006, 05:58:24 PM

The douchey answer is that he is so sick of looking at bar graphs that look like this:


number of people who have subscribed to...
WoW xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Lin     xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
EQ     xxxxx
UO     xx
SWG  KEKE LOLZ


that he'll do anything he can to justify a chart like this:


# of people who have ever...

masturbated         xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
sent an email        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
eaten McDonalds   xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
watched the NFL   xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Been to Qatar        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
played WoW          xx
played Lineage       x
played EQ              x
played UO              x
played SWG           kekelolz

But that would be super-douchey.


This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
Engels
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8719

inflicts shingles.


Reply #85 on: September 26, 2006, 12:49:26 AM

Seems a bit mean spirited, but perhaps accurate. All the things Raph seems to think are marketable items have one thing in common; they are not games. They may be features within a designed game, but not games in and of themselves. It just won't fly. I hope you don't think the new chart will look like this:

played SWG                                   x
played wow                                   xxx
watched youtube                           xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
played swg with embedded Youtube  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something.

-Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

"let go of my dick you mother fucker!"  - Jimbo
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 16369

sentient yeast infection


WWW
Reply #86 on: September 27, 2006, 02:47:09 PM


"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Margalis
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Posts: 12335


Reply #87 on: September 27, 2006, 08:51:08 PM

WOW is a much bigger success than Runescape.

There is a fundamental problem in trying to figure out how to make a lot of money from things when their main selling point is that they are free or very low cost.

A lot of people play Window's Solitaire. It may be the most popular game in the world. That doesn't mean you can charge $15 a month for it and start raking in money.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Ironwood
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Posts: 25966


Reply #88 on: September 28, 2006, 01:40:36 AM

Well, yes, you can.

Just up the price of Windows by $15.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 16369

sentient yeast infection


WWW
Reply #89 on: September 28, 2006, 02:41:50 AM

That would be that content aggregation thing at work.  You may not be able to sell Solitaire all by itself (at least not for $15 - I suspect that if you made a marginally better Solitaire, charged $5 for it, and got a good distribution channel you'd actually do pretty well relative to the cost of development), but it does very nicely when bundled with a bunch of other stuff.  Like all the various crap that comes with Windows, each bit of which does in fact drive up the price of the OS.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Ironwood
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Reply #90 on: September 28, 2006, 02:57:45 AM

Yes, Indeed.  Which was really my point - Margalis used a very bad example.  Solitaire is not free by any manner of means.

However, what is generally overlooked is that one of the most basic positives of 'Things that are free or low cost' is that they have the distribution channel built in :  People Love Free Shit.

So finding ways to make money off of that is much easier than if you had to overcome an initial cost.

After all, that's pretty much how advertising space gets sold, isn't it ?

So it's easy to make money off Windows Solitaire :  You strike a deal with Marlboro to have every card stamped at the back with a 'Smoke My Cancer Sticks' logo.


The REAL trick is to get people to start paying for something that they used to get free - and even then, there's been successful models in the past, particularly in the gaming world.  Doom and Counterstrike leap straight to mind here.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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