fun time!

[dwindlehop]

I just broke 4M skill points (only 270k in learning!) and am finally disenchanted with asteroid belt ratting. I still intend to make some isk that way, but I need to start doing other things. So what's fun for the mid-game character? I can't mount T2 guns or fly T2 ships, but those things are certainly within reach. I can fly a BS.

Skillwise, it's finally time to get those advanced learning skills done, and then I can trek up the T2 turret tree and AFs->HACs if nothing else presents itself.

Whatever I try doesn't have to be very profitable, but my wallet can't support stuff that is unprofitable.

Here's what I've thought of:
o mission running- nothing wrong with this, except occasionally I need to log off in while I'm in the middle of one. I guess you lose a time bonus? Does part of it respawn?
o pirate mission running- sounds slightly sexier because it's not standard. I'd need Diplomacy and access to 0.0 NPC stations to get some decent agents, correct? I'd hate to blow my faction for factional warfare, though.
o smuggling- F13 has L3 mission runners. Probably I'd find out what their agents are looking for and figure out a good way to get it, then put the stuff on the market. I think it also requires 0.0 NPC station access for most contraband, but perhaps there's some items that are contraband in one race's space that isn't in another? Googling doesn't show any great FAQs or guides on smuggling, but people make a living doing it. It seems to involve instas for the region in which you're smuggling. I wonder if a customs inspection attack is the same as CONCORDOKEN? That is an expensive experiment. I guess I could make an alt to smuggle past customs and attack the police and compare the differences, if any. And I could always put Zipper Zee in some daisy dukes to distract the cops while I blow past in my souped up Stabber.
o alliance pvp- I think something along the lines of strikes behind enemy lines would support my playstyle, which is sporadic and prone to interruption. Logging off for the win! I'm never online for the big fleet battles, and I'm not online long enough for gate camps. I'd really like to break up gate camps with some T2 sniping when I get there (Next year?). Perhaps I should try hanging around the enemy's empire hangouts looking for action.
o bounty hunting- Seems like this might be a better idea after September Kali rolls around. Contract killing is my cup of tea. But I could give it a go, especially if I get some backup.
o piracy- Ransoming newbs doesn't sound like a ton of fun, but I do need more PvP experience.
o nonalliance 0.0 pvp- As in go to Curse or Stain, someplace with 0.0 and NPC stations, and just NBSI everyone. Um, probably much more effective with backup.
o T2 item building- Kali brings T2 to the masses with Invention and Reverse Engineering! Scout moons! Secure deals! Create reactions! Find morphite! Make stuff! Okay, so it's not that awesome.
o Any other suggestions? I'm plenty open to ideas that involve training for new ships, as I need a new goal. Any feedback on the ideas I had, either in terms of Logosity units (where 1.0 is as fun as one Log (it's big! it's heavy! it's wood!)) or in terms of feasibility, would be much appreciated.

I am currently looking for an excuse not to run missions.

[Roac]

o mission running- nothing wrong with this, except occasionally I need to log off in while I'm in the middle of one. I guess you lose a time bonus? Does part of it respawn?

Some missions respawn.  I think most/all will respawn after reboot.  However, I can do even the toughest lv3 within an hour, and quite a number of them are doable in a quarter or half hour.  Also, you can preview a mission before you accept it, and can decide from that if you want to accept based on how much time you have, if you like.  Should you quit in the middle, you will likely lose the bonus, but still get whatever base pay, faction standing, and lp.  Usually that means a loss of about 20% total mission value (about half of your flat reward).

pirate mission running- sounds slightly sexier because it's not standard. I'd need Diplomacy and access to 0.0 NPC stations to get some decent agents, correct? I'd hate to blow my faction for factional warfare, though

You have it - basically same thing as mission running, but you're in 0.0 and working for pirates.  If your standing with a faction is below -2 you'll have a hard time doing anything for them, however, as factions stop speaking with you at that point.

smuggling- F13 has L3 mission runners. Probably I'd find out what their agents are looking for and figure out a good way to get it, then put the stuff on the market. I think it also requires 0.0 NPC station access for most contraband, but perhaps there's some items that are contraband in one race's space that isn't in another? Googling doesn't show any great FAQs or guides on smuggling, but people make a living doing it. It seems to involve instas for the region in which you're smuggling. I wonder if a customs inspection attack is the same as CONCORDOKEN?

Running illegals is mostly broken.  If you get caught by customs, they will demand the cargo or your ship.  Instas help you avoid giving up either, but you'll still get hit with standing losses and isk fines.  The payout for some illegals is obscene, however (massive isk for little lp).

bounty hunting- Seems like this might be a better idea after September Kali rolls around. Contract killing is my cup of tea. But I could give it a go, especially if I get some backup.

Hard to do, because you have to get a pod kill, and unless they are -5 CONCORD you take a faction hit for podding them.  Fun, though.  People with decent bounties tend to be good at PvP, so be warned.  In addition, a number of pirates keep their status positive, which prevents bounties from being leveled against them to begin with.

piracy- Ransoming newbs doesn't sound like a ton of fun, but I do need more PvP experience

Don't ransom newbs - they don't have isk to pay with.  Pick fights with them if you want the PvP experience, but they're not worth it beyond that.  However, there are quite a number of experienced miners in lowsec.  They often work in groups; I've seen groups of 2-4 working a belt before, usually with BC escort.

[dwindlehop]

I forgot complexes! I understand it takes multiple BSs to run a 10/10 complex. How difficult a complex could I run solo in a BS?

[Llyse]

4/10 is doable in a kiting caracal just takes time
there's suppose to be a big jump in 5/10 though so be careful...
Report back Dwindle!  :-D

[dwindlehop]

No opinions on what is the most fun?

[edlavallee]

Can someone esplain what a complex is and what is the difference between a 6/10 and a 10/10 is? What do the numbers mean?

[Yoru]

A complex is a space dungeon - a series of deadspaces with enemies to pop. The rating indicates how difficult, numerous and powerful the enemies are. 1/10 is the rating of the newbie complexes in 1.0 space. 10/10s are the uber-hardcore deep-0.0 complexes than keep the alliances that do them well in the black.

[Leon]

o mission running- nothing wrong with this, except occasionally I need to log off in while I'm in the middle of one. I guess you lose a time bonus? Does part of it respawn?

Most profitable, and easiest option. High LP also grants navy faction ships.

o pirate mission running- sounds slightly sexier because it's not standard. I'd need Diplomacy and access to 0.0 NPC stations to get some decent agents, correct? I'd hate to blow my faction for factional warfare, though.

Requires pirate standings of at least -2.00, meaning any prolonged regular mission running will render you unable to run pirate missions. Pirate missions also lowers your sec status over time, as well as requiring 0.0 access. Depending on your location, its either possible, or near-suicidal. They give uber profitable full-grade implants however.

Serpentis : Snakes
Blood Raiders : Talisman
Guristas : Crystal
Angel : Halo
Sansha : Slave

o smuggling- F13 has L3 mission runners. Probably I'd find out what their agents are looking for and figure out a good way to get it, then put the stuff on the market. I think it also requires 0.0 NPC station access for most contraband, but perhaps there's some items that are contraband in one race's space that isn't in another?

Worthless. Smuggling WILL require vast knowledge of drugs, their worth, their buy/selling price (NOT market price), and appropriate contacts with buyers. You will also require access to pirate missions to get those drugs in the first place. Smuggling is like piracy, if you intrude on another smuggler's turf and start under-cutting, expect a wardec. It is however, extremely profitable but will require a lot of experience and loads of drug handling. You'll also need drugs for pirate implant offers (VERY profitable)

o alliance pvp- I think something along the lines of strikes behind enemy lines would support my playstyle, which is sporadic and prone to interruption. Logging off for the win! I'm never online for the big fleet battles, and I'm not online long enough for gate camps. I'd really like to break up gate camps with some T2 sniping when I get there (Next year?). Perhaps I should try hanging around the enemy's empire hangouts looking for action.

Behind-the-lines alliance PvP is basically 0.0 piracy. Interceptor / fast-cruiser is a must, and you'll be better in gangs of 4+ (solo if in 5 WCS a stababond). Massive isk income if you sell the loot you gain by blowing up miners/ratters and/or ransoming them. You'll need to know the right 'spots' though.

o bounty hunting- Seems like this might be a better idea after September Kali rolls around. Contract killing is my cup of tea. But I could give it a go, especially if I get some backup.

Worthless. A guy with a bounty of 800mil will either be perma-docked, or he will get someone to pod him for the money. Most pirates with bounties dont tend to die often, and odds are you'll come across a 30mil bounty guy in a battleship, and I'm sure he wont be mining in a mining barge either ;)

o piracy- Ransoming newbs doesn't sound like a ton of fun, but I do need more PvP experience.

Depends on the type of piracy. Ransoming newbs is pointless. They got crap loot, but sometimes they'll pay ransoms, sometimes they wont. Pirating newbs is more of a fun factor. The other kind of piracy will need your entire corp's support --> wardec new/industrial corps and fight a war and pirate them by constantly disrupting their activities, ganking them and jacking all their loot, as well as constantly podding them to kill their morale. Once they're about done, demand a 100-300mil ransom (or a few battleships) and tell them to leave the area in exchange for peace. Works surprisingly well and brings much entertainment and isk.

o nonalliance 0.0 pvp- As in go to Curse or Stain, someplace with 0.0 and NPC stations, and just NBSI everyone. Um, probably much more effective with backup.

Same as 0.0 piracy and general piracy

o T2 item building- Kali brings T2 to the masses with Invention and Reverse Engineering! Scout moons! Secure deals! Create reactions! Find morphite! Make stuff! Okay, so it's not that awesome.

Worthless unless you have access to high-demand BPOs, and you will need a well-oiled and immensely capable industrial division to make money and get the cash flowing. You'll need 24/7 production and research on selling areas.

o Any other suggestions?

Go YARR'ing. If you're looking for PvP experience, then this is what you want to aim for, specifically pirating through wardecs. Ganking newb miners and ransoming battleships in belts has its moments, but its not exactly excellent combat experience. Pirating through wardecs means you'll be up against people that are out to kill you, sometimes through superior force - this will not only give you massive combat experience on teaching you how to fly, operate as a group, teach you combat strategy and on how to fit your ships right, it also brings a decent amount of money by blowing up their ships and taking their loot, and ultimately demanding a 100-300mil payment in return for them leaving the area, or a 30mil/week protection money investment. The con is that your corp as a whole will have to agree to this move, which may upset those that dont want to be constantly under attack or would rather do their own thing. IMO, its also the most fun option out of the aboves (unless being Alliance_Meatshield_#6624 is your thing).

Otherwise, solo pirating or having "combat training ops" by generic pirating through belts will also work when you dont want to be at war full time, but it'll destroy your sec status.

Another quick/easy money making option is to gate camp in low sec, and have a guy in a hauler pick up the loot. If successful you can make a decent amount of money, but expect your sec status to drop and "anti-pirates" displaying their heroism by fighting you 3 vs 15.



Oh, running plexes will also give a nice amount of cash, but the good ones will be in low sec, and you'll have to farm them to get a steady flow. Plex runners make nice targets for pirates too.

The 5/10 drone plexes tend to be nice, "decent" amount of isk per run (about 40-60mil depending) and loads of minerals (you'll need a T2 hauler), but after a few runs you'll have enough minerals to start pumping out cruisers like crazy to supply your PvP needs.

6/10 and above are in 0.0, and make excellent targets for 0.0 pirates.

solo 10/10 in a BS? With 4mil SP, not going to happen. You'd need a full faction battleship to have even remotely a chance, and odds are, you'll still blow up regardless. You need an entire fleet for 10/10, and those will be farmed by alliance executor corps that will guard them very very closely and jealously.

With a decently fit battleship, you can solo a 5/10 I believe, possibly 6/10 but I never tried a 6/10, too dangerous to go flying around 0.0 solo in a BS. I did however, solo a 4/10 serpentis with my Harpy. 3/10 serpentis plexes will drop that uber uber gistii MWD/AB/SB stuff for frigates, but it'll be hella camped by plex runners using ishtars that log on exactly at the same time, every single day. I tried competing with one, but gave up. I did get some serpentis faction equipment though, which was a nice addition, but its not exactly a constant money maker compared to the other options available.

[Leon]

double post :X

[Roac]

I forgot complexes! I understand it takes multiple BSs to run a 10/10 complex. How difficult a complex could I run solo in a BS?

A 10/10 complex will blowup whoever first gets aggro, without a lot of support (remote rep, shield transporters, etc).  They also get locked down by alliances.  V has one, and you can look at the evemail to see how they treat running it (which I won't go into on the pub. forum).

5/10 is the lowest complex you can do in a BS, but the highest that exists in lowsec (4/10 allows up to BC, and smaller plexes allow only smaller ships).  Considered doable solo.  Everything else is in 0.0, and although not as in demand as 10/10, you run the risk of getting killed by an enemy alliance, pirate alliance, or the alliance that 'owns' the plex.

[Engels]

How does one find these complexes?

[Roac]

Go to Eve Geek, click the Links section, and browse down.  There's a few links to complex info, with the first two being the only ones of much merit.  Both are supplied by users, and so will contain some errors due to being incomplete or containing false information.  The 2D Eve Map PDF also contains markers for complexes, but only for Empire.  It's worth noting too that you can view Empire complexes by simply browsing to your in-game map and displaying the DED complex report.

[dwindlehop]

I guess the problem I have with mission running is that it give me experience that isn't useful for pvp. Ratting and running 0.0 to empire pipes has taught me lots about pvp with every ship I have lost or saved to other players. The only pirate agents I could hope to do are Serpentis or Angel, AFAICT, and neither will be a walk in the park. Angels have reasonably neat faction ships, but I doubt I'll grind enough LP to get a BS.

People tend to wardec F13 without us having to do anything. Probably anti-YARR will be the path I take, with belt ratting and L3 missions to supplement the non-profitableness of fighting. Also alliance pvp around NPC stations, as I can have a base of operations and interesting variety of targets, and some reasonable expectation of backup in the area without having to organize a gang every time. Since I'm in debt, I think it's Republic Fleet missions for me for now, not pvp. Hopefully my standing with the navy will mean something for factional warfare.

I won't farm any complexes, but I might run a 5 or 6 if we stumble across one.

My security status is too high!