WoW changes rest state

[Riggswolfe]

I figured I post this here because in my mind at least rest state is probably the most controversial part of WoW.

Read about it here

I'll cut n paste as well in case the link doesn't work.

The Rest State system has undergone several changes. There are now two tiers of rest states: Rested = 200% experience and Normal = 100% experience.

At level one, players will all start in the normal tier. When a player rests be it in a city or at an inn they will gain rest bonus at a very slow rate. Eight hours of rest will be needed for a player to gain one "bubble" of rest bonus. At any given time, players will be able to accumulate a maximum of 30 "bubbles" worth of rest bonus which translates into approximately 1.5 levels worth of rested play (before your character returns to normal rest state).

The changes to the Rest State have been made with the understanding that most players will be in the Normal experience tier most of the time. The Rested tier is primarily intended for players that take a day or more off from playing or are very casual with their play schedules. This has enabled us to greatly reduce the experience necessary for all players to level regardless of which rest state tier they play under.

I haven't tried it since this new patch, but if it works like it reads it seems rest truly is a balancer for casual players. On another note, the Blizzard devs have said they are discussing potentially adding something similiar to CoH's sidekick system into WoW.

[Alluvian]

God.  Is this how the HAM system got started in SWG?  One bad idea constantly added onto in a desperate attempt to make it not look like a bad idea anymore?  The whole time the devs are plugging their ears and yelling "It is a good idea we are not taking it out"?

The mental image amuses me at least.  The rest system is a steaming heap.  Dressing it up does not make it any nicer.  At best you can make it smaller and not as smelly, but why have it at all then?  You are not going to be able to out-code catasses.  Trying to is just futile.

[geldonyetich]

I don't know, seems like a good idea to me.   You have enough time to play the game all day, every day?   Good, then you have enough time to wait longer for your mana to come back.   This should give you the time you need to change your catbox.

Of course, this measure will only slow down the catass-enabled, not stem their natural advantage over a player with real life obligations.

The best part about it is that it allows for the developers to set the experience bar lower for casual players.    This way they're under less obligation to raise the bar to an extent that a catass can't breeze through the entire level range in a week while causing casual players to suffer.

But, what do I care?  I have neither the time or money to play WoW.

[Rasix]

As a casual, I like it. I like the idea a lot.  Of course I'd be stupid not to like a system that'll give me more experience just for playing at my normal clip.

I don't see the fuss from the catasses, they'll still outlevel me by a wide margin.  And didn't they say this doesn't apply to quest experience, which is the major gaining factor in the game?

I don't see it as them trying to out code catasses as long as they balance along the 100% exp factor of non rested state. It's just a nudge to get casuals moving a bit faster up the curve.  This hurts no one, I don't understand the fuss....

On another note, the Blizzard devs have said they are discussing potentially adding something similiar to CoH's sidekick system into WoW.

They'd be stupid not to. It's easily one of the best ideas to hit the mmorpg market in years.

[HaemishM]

While I applaud the attempt to curtail catassness, it's an idea that is doomed to failure. They are forgetting the primary law of powergaming... anything that is not a bonus is a penalty. You can phrase it however you want, if there's a way to get twice the experience for half the work, they will find it. They will exploit it.

If you do not want people playing your game 24/7, don't allow them to play the game 24/fucking/7. Force the little steaming maggots to log off and stay logged off. Otherwise, stop worrying about it, because I'm sure there are much more interesting and important systems to be trying to balance.

[Rasix]

While I applaud the attempt to curtail catassness, it's an idea that is doomed to failure. They are forgetting the primary law of powergaming... anything that is not a bonus is a penalty. You can phrase it however you want, if there's a way to get twice the experience for half the work, they will find it. They will exploit it.

If you do not want people playing your game 24/7, don't allow them to play the game 24/fucking/7. Force the little steaming maggots to log off and stay logged off. Otherwise, stop worrying about it, because I'm sure there are much more interesting and important systems to be trying to balance.

Who gives a fuck about what the catasses percieve as a bonus or not as long as the game is being balanced around there not even being a rest state?  Really, let them piss and moan. Let them cry. Let them fake suicide. They'll still fucking log in 8 hours a day like the compulsive little, shit smelling gerbils they are.

And yes, I hope they have nothing more than a junior designer working on this during his lunch break.  Sure it's nice for the casual gamer but it's not a selling point for your game. A game that by all accounts still has a ways to go.

[Riggswolfe]

 A game that by all accounts still has a ways to go.

Right now I am more addicted to it than anything else on my hard drive. So they succeeded in that at least. They finally put talents in and that's going to be fun to play with.

[Rasix]

Ohh, I wasn't saying that as a bad thing. If you're still adding major systems to your game, then your game is a still a while off.

Unless you're DAoC, then you add it and a week later go live.

[Morfiend]

The rest system is a steaming heap.

With this new patch, the rest system is great. It is exactually what it was ment to be.

A bonus for the real casual players.

They have just abour halved the EXP needed to level, then they make it so you spend most of your playing time in 100% exp. Which ballances the exp level perfictly.

Last patch, exp was just right when you where in 200%, but you could not get in to rested very often, leading to majhor grinding.

Now, if some one doesnt play for 3 or 4 days, they get a nice little bonus. Seems great to me.

Now, if you had said, The Rest system LAST patch is a steaming pile of crap you would have been mostly right, instead of totally wrong.

On another note, the Blizzard devs have said they are discussing potentially adding something similiar to CoH's sidekick system into WoW.

They'd be stupid not to. It's easily one of the best ideas to hit the mmorpg market in years.

I agree. Thats the one thing they need. It will be harder for them to impliment due to the majority of exp comming from completing the quests, and quests are level restricted.

I still hope they can figure it out, as it is the only way I can have fun playing with my girlfriend in these type of games, since she only logs in like once a week or so.

[Riggswolfe]

Gotta agree with you Morphiend. The original rest system sucked. This new one, well, for the first time I was playing and not watching my rest state.

[Evil Elvis]

How about this: If you think there's a need to go to all the trouble of having a rest system and a sidekick system, why don't you just dump the level-up/skill raise systems entirely?

I'd rather they tried to come up with some new reasons and incentives for playing an mmorpg, rather than just incorporating some buzzword mechanics into my catassing.

[Soukyan]

How about this: If you think there's a need to go to all the trouble of having a rest system and a sidekick system, why don't you just dump the level-up/skill raise systems entirely?

I'd rather they tried to come up with some new reasons and incentives for playing an mmorpg, rather than just incorporating some buzzword mechanics into my catassing.

I have to agree. They could have kept it simpler by just lowering the experience to level and raising the quest experience even more, most likely. The rest system adds a dynamic to be sure, but like those old MUDs that required you to find an inn and "rent" to quit the game, it's a decidedly unneccessary feature. If I was told I had to rent, I just dropped connection and never looked back. And I'm not speaking of how inns allow you to rest up faster or whatever, just pointing out an annoyance factor of adding overly complicating systems to games. It does not add to the gameplay. If the combat is boring, the rest system would do nothing to make it more fun. It is an unneeded system. But, hey, whatever floats their boat. I guess they feel that their combat system is complete and engaging. I hope it can measure up to CoH's.

[Alluvian]

I just don't personally see any problem with someone leveling fast in a game.  Who does it hurt?  Nobody as far as I can tell.  The only times it does is when the devs decide fast leveling is a BAD THING (tm) and punish it.  Usually these punishments miss and affect everyone else more than the target.

This rest system is a well aimed snipershot punishment, but I still don't think it is a good idea.  Let the catasses catass.  What difference does it make to me?  What difference does it make to Blizzard?  Fear that they will quit once they reach the top?  Well if so, your game has problems beyond fast leveling and an exp penalty is only delaying the inevitable (usually by a comically slim margin).  And that player that wanted to catass to the top will probably be upset (and maybe quit) anyway when he sees the game is intentionally stacked against him.

It is the us vs them mentality that annoys me in the whole system.  I am not a catass.  My COH character just hit 15 last night.  I played EQ for 4 years and only got to level 58 (something a good catass powerleveler can do in a day).  But his speed does not diminish my accomplishments unless I am stupidly jealous of a playstyle I would not like and do not want.

Don't punish your players.  And looking at it as a bonus to casuals is just forcing yourself to see the good part.  With that logic I could see a benefit of having someone shit in my mouth.  You know, at least it was not coated in hydrofloric acid, and there could have been TWO people shitting in my mouth.

Analogy just for personal amusement.  The rest system will not affect me playing the game or not because it will not affect my playstyle.  I just don't agree with it's intended purpose.  I don't believe devs should be frightened or offended by players being quickly successful.  That attitude has done a lot more harm than good in mmogs.

[Mesozoic]

Well I think the idea is that levelling too fast lets players blow through content and thats not great for retention.  

If the gameplay is fun and challenging at all levels and steps (like sidekicking) are taken to ensure that buddies can play together, then a "level" really becomes an abstract concept that falls away as a barrier to a fun time.

The question is this: Is WoW's gameplay inherently entertaining, or does it lean on the DING GRATZ crutch?

[daveNYC]

I just don't personally see any problem with someone leveling fast in a game.  Who does it hurt?

The developers who coded in content up to level 40 and the cap is 60.

[kidder]

I don't see a problem with diminishing returns for playing longer periods of time.  I'm looking for the day that the main goal of logging into my MMORPG of choice isn't, "Gosh I hope to hit level 13 tonight", but that it is, "Whoa!  I can't wait to see what adventures I am going to have tonight!"

I do know that one of the goals of the rest state is to slow down the consumption of content...maybe an alternative route would be to CHARGE more $$ for content use above a certain daily, weekly, or monthly amount.  Maybe $10.00/month for the first 40 hours of use per month...and $5.00 for every additional 20 hours?  Heck, you could have a "premium" subscription that was $25.00/month unlimited time.

Works for me, but I'm not a catass anymore.  I don't know if it's a good idea or not.

[Alluvian]

I just don't personally see any problem with someone leveling fast in a game.  Who does it hurt?

The developers who coded in content up to level 40 and the cap is 60.

Yeah, like that does not have a painfully easy solution.  Put the cap at 40 till you code the extra content.  Like COH did.  Although 40-50 is still content incomplete.

[daveNYC]

Mr. Subtle is only level nine.  Content won't be an issue for another year or so.

For that matter, rest states are pretty much moot as far as my play style goes.

[Mesozoic]

Mr. Subtle is only level nine.  Content won't be an issue for another year or so.

For that matter, rest states are pretty much moot as far as my play style goes.

Well, no.  The idea is that the other guy isn't outleveling you as fast as he would without a rest state, and I guess you're supposed to appreciate that for some reason.

[daveNYC]

Mr. Subtle is only level nine.  Content won't be an issue for another year or so.

For that matter, rest states are pretty much moot as far as my play style goes.

Well, no.  The idea is that the other guy isn't outleveling you as fast as he would without a rest state, and I guess you're supposed to appreciate that for some reason.

Schadenfreude?

[Mesozoic]

Something like that.

This reply brought to you by babelfish.

[Alluvian]

Well, no.  The idea is that the other guy isn't outleveling you as fast as he would without a rest state, and I guess you're supposed to appreciate that for some reason.

Exactly.  I don't understand that reason at all.  Maybe if they don't have a sidekicking system and it keeps friends from playing together, but that is about it.  That is not a problem with leveling anyway, but a problem with how the game handles the group level spread.

On the PVP servers I can see it being used as well... but then again the rest state would just be covering up other errors.  Like leveling power being exponential and not fully linear.  If three level 10s can be evenly matched vs a level 30 I am right back at wondering why someone leveling faster than if they play more is a problem.  If 3 level 10s get their asses kicked by 1 level 30 without breaking a sweat, then sure the rest system will help a TINY bit by making him level 25 instead of 30, but it is hardly doing anything other than putting a thin coat of transparent paint over an existing problem.

[El Gallo]

For people to stay hooked, they need to be fed x pellets per y unit of time.  If everyone got the 200% xp, powergamers would be getting pellets too frequently for addiction to set in, and anyway they would eat all the pellets in the machine before they can refill it with an expansion.  If everyone got 100% xp, the people who play twice a week would not be getting enough pellets to stay hooked.

[Soukyan]

For people to stay hooked, they need to be fed x pellets per y unit of time.  If everyone got the 200% xp, powergamers would be getting pellets too frequently for addiction to set in, and anyway they would eat all the pellets in the machine before they can refill it with an expansion.  If everyone got 100% xp, the people who play twice a week would not be getting enough pellets to stay hooked.

Two quick points:

- It's amazing how many people keeping pushing the buttons for pellets. I'm not saying I'm immune to that behavior, just pointing out that apparently that is what most people want. I don't prefer it myself.

- The 200% and 100% are arbitrary numbers. Perception determines what they really are. To me, the 200% is what leveling should be in the game and dropping to 100% punishes the player. To another, it's a bonus. *shrug*

[HaemishM]

How about this: If you think there's a need to go to all the trouble of having a rest system and a sidekick system, why don't you just dump the level-up/skill raise systems entirely?

See, now you're just talking crazy talk.

EDIT:

If 3 level 10s get their asses kicked by 1 level 30 without breaking a sweat

Not having played the game or heard, I can only base it on the people working on it and playing it. Considering the fellating Afterlife have done of WoW and the fact they hired Furor, I'd bet on this being the likely scenario. After all, what's the point of levelling if you can't WTFPWN lower levels with impunity?

[Sky]

The "pwn" mindset must be replaced with a "sportsmanship" mindset before video game pvp will ever be worth a shit imo. Ooo, another dead horse for my collection of kicking material.

[Morfiend]

For people to stay hooked, they need to be fed x pellets per y unit of time.  If everyone got the 200% xp, powergamers would be getting pellets too frequently for addiction to set in, and anyway they would eat all the pellets in the machine before they can refill it with an expansion.  If everyone got 100% xp, the people who play twice a week would not be getting enough pellets to stay hooked.

*Ding ding ding* and we have a winner.

With this new patch, the rest system really does feel like a bonus to casual players. There is no other way to say it. Last patch, it felt like a punishment for playing to long, not any more.

Put it this way.

Last patch most people spent most of their time in normal earning like 1% to level for each mob killed. While in rested you where getting 2% a level per mob killed.

After the patch, most people will be in Normal, but because they raised quest exp and lowered exp needed to level, now in normal people get 2% exp per kill, and the real causal gamer will spend some time in rested getting 4% a level per kill.

You can still say well 2% is lower than 4% so its still a penalty. It no longer *feels* like a penalty and that is what they where shooting for.

[El Gallo]

- It's amazing how many people keeping pushing the buttons for pellets. I'm not saying I'm immune to that behavior, just pointing out that apparently that is what most people want. I don't prefer it myself.

I am not ashamed to admit that I like a pellet now and again, and that the pellets help keep me coming back for more.  I spent most of a long conference call today planning out how I was going to spend my talent points.  I have a cool ability coming in two levels.  I am sure some pleasure center in my brain will be activated when I get there and, after messing around with it for a while, I will start thinking about the cool squared ability coming in 4 more levels.

That being said, the actual gameplay has to be fun.  I don't play slot machines, which are the best Skinner boxes ever designed, because I just don't like the activity.

- The 200% and 100% are arbitrary numbers. Perception determines what they really are. To me, the 200% is what leveling should be in the game and dropping to 100% punishes the player. To another, it's a bonus. *shrug*

Completely agreed on the arbitrary bit, I was just using Blizzard's terminology for clarity.  Just to clarify, you start at 100%, and only go up after spending a lot of time offline.  This makes is feel like a bonus to most people I have talked to.