Is PC Gaming dead?

[lamaros]

Computers, consoles, the Internet and gaming are all just fads. You'll all be dead before they are though.

We'll? You plan to live on, though? What's your secret?

PC gaming isn't dead.

[Daeven]

Adventure games have almost died off (though I guess there's been a slow resurgence in the past couple of years).

Did you play Indigo Prophecy or Dreamfall?

TBS's are nil.

Galactic Civilizations 2 called. It says you are psycho.

Great games like X Com or Jagged Alliance aren't even thought about anymore.

Played Space Rangers 2 yet?

Sims have all replicated into "The Sims".

City Life? Flight Sim 2004? X3? Silent Hunter 3?

Hello...? Is this thing on?

[Cyrrex]

I own exactly 7 games for my Xbox 360, and I tend to only buy games that are either company-friendly, or interesting in their own rights.

Chromehounds = Persistent online mech game.  I've been begging the PC world to make this, they haven't listened.
Madden 2006 = A football game is always good for when friends come over.
Dead Rising = PC world has no equivalent.
Jade Empire = PC version, as always, is coming out a year after the console version.
Outlaw Golf 2 = See Madden.
Crimson Skies 2 = Loved the original game, but apparently they didn't feel like porting the sequel over to PC.
Worms Forts = Another company game.

For everything else; shooters, MMO's, most RPG's, strategy, and sims I go with the PC.  It's still the best overall platform, because shooters suck on consoles (maybe the Wii will change this), and because consoles tend to toss out 5 Fast and the Furious racing game clones per month.  The only game I'm looking forward to next on the 360 is that Marvel Universe game.

You forgot to put Fight Night Round 3 on your list.  I'm sure it was just an oversight on your part.  Please address soonest.

PC games seem to be their own worst enemies.  Someone makes a unique and fun FPS, then 300 titles come out in the next 5 years that are basically exactly the same in terms of the experience they offer.  Same with MMOs.  Same with RTSs.  There are too many choices, and no consensual favorites.  Now every fucktard on the planet has a PC, and I'm expected to share my gaming experience with them...too bad we can't agree on which game to play.   The tech advances so quickly, and the publishers are so fast to jump on the most convenient band-wagon...that nothing comes out any more that has that "special" appeal about it.  We are like the typical spoiled child - so many toys in the closet, that we can't bring ourselves to appreciate any of them.

After years of mostly PC gaming, I am finding myself slowly going back to the console.  A lot of people talk about the 360 and how it is lacking in appealing titles.  While that may be true, I can't help but feel that this generation of consoles is somehow going to help re-invigorate gaming for me.  I have a sore left thumb to prove it...from an anolog stick, which I didn't think could happen...playing an EA title of all things (FNR3).  It's been nearly 10 years since I last got a sore thumb.

[stray]

Adventure games have almost died off (though I guess there's been a slow resurgence in the past couple of years).

Did you play Indigo Prophecy or Dreamfall?

There's no reason to mention Indigo. I already gave the present status of Adventure games some credit....It's right there in your quote.

Still though, most of the new titles are all made by the same company. Not sure what to say about that.

Galactic Civilizations 2 called. It says you are psycho.

Great. You mention one indie game and call me a psycho (I'll add Civ 4 to that small list though).

Anywho, don't take me too seriously for saying "nil". I'm just talking about trends here. And I thought it was clear that my entire post was comparing current PC gaming trends with those of the past. The options for good games in any given genre have been on a steady decline. Just pointing out one game proves my point even more.

Played Space Rangers 2 yet?

Nope. I'll check out a demo.
 

City Life

Haven't played City Life, nor do I plan to. It's Sim City, more or less, and I've already played at least 10 urban sim games like this (beginning with the first Sim City).

Not to say I don't like building games though. I just want some variety. It's the same deal with any genre. I don't want every shooter to contain Nazi's, Mutant labs gone awry, or Nazi-Mutant labs gone awry either.

Or to put it another way, if you're going to clone a sim/building game, at least clone something that isn't totally played out. Give me a Tropico clone. I'd be down with that. There aren't enough of those yet. Or better yet, come out with something original (i.e. The Movies).

Flight Sim 2004

MS used to update that annually. Now they don't. Kind of proves my point about the "steady decline" thing I mentioned.

Besides, they're not even games.

Take combat flight sims instead. Remember how many of those things there used to be out there? It was like how many FPS's there are now. The Jane's series of games alone could probably make a stack 5 feet high.

Nowadays (as far as I know), only Ubi is cranking out good combat/flight sims. Il-Sturmovik and Lock-On. And those are already 3 or 4 years old, man.

X3

I wasted enough time trying to like 1 and 2. They were pretty games, but buggy, badly translated, with dogshit storylines to boot.

Furthermore, the X games are made by Europeans. Europeans don't understand a thing about "space jockey" sci-fi. Or just fighter pilots in general. Too cerebral, too much techno. No Han Solo-ish/Bruce Campbell-ish attitude in sight.

I'm a bit skeptical about Darkstar One for the same reason, but I'm gonna buy it anyways. Just like I gave the first 2 X games a chance.

Silent Hunter 3

This is all about taste, I guess. Never enjoyed the old ones much either.

[edlavallee]

I also think that spending $500 for a graphics card versus $500 for an entire gaming system has influenced my thinking in alot of ways. That and I love putting the disk in and playing, as opposed to putting the disk in then spending the next 6 hours searching message boards for a workaround to get the damned game installed.

It's all about the accessibility. McDonalds sells billions of hamburgers not because it is fine cuisine, but because it is fast, cheap and I don't even need to get out of my car. As gaming moves mainstream, you need to factor in the lowest common denominator.

Embrace accessibility, bitches.

Honestly, I think we are getting closer and closer to a merge. Pretty soon it wont be console vs PC, cause they console will be your PC. Look at xbox live on the 360, this is the first step IMO to merging the two machines. How long is it going to be really until we have one box and a nice TV? Not long. Also, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GIVE ME A MOUSE AND KEYBOARD FOR MY XBOX.

This is where I think things need to be going. At some point someone is going to wake up and realize that I don't want to have to buy a specific game console just to play one game with my friends. It would be nice if we could all just get along...

[schild]

Civ 4 isn't indie. Firaxis is Take Two. City life is shit. Silent Hunter and Space Rangers 2 have Starforce.

And what is with all the EA games talked about in this thread. You fuckers should be shot.

[Trippy]

Honestly, I think we are getting closer and closer to a merge. Pretty soon it wont be console vs PC, cause they console will be your PC. Look at xbox live on the 360, this is the first step IMO to merging the two machines. How long is it going to be really until we have one box and a nice TV? Not long. Also, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GIVE ME A MOUSE AND KEYBOARD FOR MY XBOX.

Not going to happen as long as Microsoft can and continues to charge monopoly prices for its OS. It would be financial suicide for MS to allow people to run general applications on the Xbox/Xbox 360. Just imagine what would happen to MS's (and Intel's) stock if you could run IE and hook up a printer to a $299 Xbox 360.

[schild]

It's not about general applications on a console.

It's about getting rid of the PC as a gaming device. You kinda looked at it backwards.

[Trippy]

It's not about general applications on a console.

It's about getting rid of the PC as a gaming device. You kinda looked at it backwards.

I was responding to Morphiend who wanted one box. I can definitely see PC games going away (particuarly because of the piracy issue) but if you can't run general apps on the console you'll still have two boxes.

[schild]

I never ever ever want to see productivity short of maybe an address book with nothing but names, phone numbers and gamer handles on a console.

Also, Daeven, that list does NOT make a strong argument for PC Gaming. In fact, it pretty much rips PC Gaming to shreds. Two games with Star Force, a shitty Urbz ripoff, 2 great adventure games that prove adventure games are going to be huge on next gen hardware (Can we say Heavy Rain, Rain, Alan Wake, and Sadness - I know I can), and a game with a lot of math vs the sort of game Stray was talking about (Disgaea, presumably, if not I have no clue what he's talking about). Hell, there are GBA/DS TBS titles that are more immersive and enjoyable than the vast majority of PC TBS shit.

Edit: Now I'm not saying TBS stuff is dead on the PC. It very much isn't. It's also gaming disguised as math disguised as gaming. At least games like Disgaea wrap a hilarious story around gameplay that's faster, more solid, and (comparatively) less repetitive. Makai Kingdom took that multiple steps further (despite a weaker script and shorter core game). I mean we've had this debate a thousand times here. Before we have it again, I think everyone who hasn't played the console TBS stuff since the Genesis era (yea, all the way back to Langrisser, bitches) needs to catch up.

[Strazos]

I still prefer RPGs on my PC over Console most of the time.

[schild]

That's because you're fucking crazy. The PC still hasn't gotten an RPG (Exclusive) better than Planescape. And that was 1999.

I don't see that happening again either whatwith Black Isle gone and Obsidian relegated to Lucas Arts' bitch. Oh, and Bioware working on the 360.

It's really a keyboard and mouse thing. Sure, there will still be a few freaks and a few decent indie games one KB/M hit the consoles, but right now that's the only seperation of the beasts. FPS titles and MMORPGs might as well be PC Exclusives (I'll clarify FPSs btw, the competitive type. Call of Cthulhu rocks ass on the Xbox).

[Strazos]

That's because you're fucking crazy. The PC still hasn't gotten an RPG (Exclusive) better than Planescape. And that was 1999.

Yup, and that makes me a sad panda. 

I can't help it - JRPGs get on my nerves. I don't even have the heart to try anymore. The fact that the Xbox has a RPG library of about 4 games doesn't help, either.

Also, even if consoles eventually adopt KB + Mouse setups, how the heck am I supposed use it, with a damn food tray or something? That'd be retarded. I'd rather just play the shit on my PC, where I already have an optimal setup.

I'm rambling. Someone decided that our dryer needed to be fixed Today, and that I have to stay up for these chucklefucks to get here....after working overnight. 

[schild]

 JRPGs aren't the only RPGs out there ya know. I mean, it's unfortunate but if you want to play all the best games you have to have all 3 consoles, a computer and 2 portable systems. Oh well, hobby of choice and whatnot.

[edlavallee]

I never ever ever want to see productivity short of maybe an address book with nothing but names, phone numbers and gamer handles on a console.

You may not, however I have a feeling others may. Why the hell would there be a browser on a cell phone if internet browsing was only a PC thing? Maybe not a MS Office thing or other applications like Photoshop, but browser on a console I can see for sure. Maybe that is what you meant by productivity.

[schild]

Whoever said internet browsing? Internet browsing is the least productive thing EVER.

Heard of the Dreamcast?

Edit: In other words, of course I meant actual productivity. Internet Browsing is the number 1 time waster in the world. Pretty sure it isn't an example of productivity in Websters. Or spelling bees.

"Productivity"

"Can you use it in a sentence?

"Internet browsing killed office productivity."

[Riggswolfe]

That's because you're fucking crazy. The PC still hasn't gotten an RPG (Exclusive) better than Planescape. And that was 1999.

I don't see that happening again either whatwith Black Isle gone and Obsidian relegated to Lucas Arts' bitch. Oh, and Bioware working on the 360.

I'd say the Gothic games were decent attempts. NWN1 had ok parts to it once the modders got ahold of it and expansions came out.

I'm with you in mourning the death of Black Isle. As for Obsidian, all I can say is they better be working on KOTORIII

[Trippy]

Whoever said internet browsing? Internet browsing is the least productive thing EVER.

Heard of the Dreamcast?

Edit: In other words, of course I meant actual productivity. Internet Browsing is the number 1 time waster in the world. Pretty sure it isn't an example of productivity in Websters. Or spelling bees.

"Productivity"

"Can you use it in a sentence?

"Internet browsing killed office productivity."

You are being an idiot. IE running on an Xbox 360 means email, shopping (B2C Web apps), B2B Web apps, blogging (okay maybe that's not such a good thing), word processing, spreadsheets, image editing, Web site admin (for people who can't handle a command line), and so on and so forth. And that doesn't include the perhaps billions of dollars businesses have spent building intranet Web applications. The browser is still not quite the full fledged applications platform Netscape envisioned ages ago (in Internet years) but it's getting there.

[Roac]

IE running on an Xbox 360 means email, shopping (B2C Web apps), B2B Web apps, blogging (okay maybe that's not such a good thing), word processing, spreadsheets, image editing, Web site admin (for people who can't handle a command line), and so on and so forth.

Can't wait to send email with a controller.

[Trippy]

IE running on an Xbox 360 means email, shopping (B2C Web apps), B2B Web apps, blogging (okay maybe that's not such a good thing), word processing, spreadsheets, image editing, Web site admin (for people who can't handle a command line), and so on and so forth.

Can't wait to send email with a controller.

There's still time to brush up on your T9 skills.

[schild]

How am I being an idiot? People already shop for shit on the 360. Sure it's 360 centric shit, but that's to be expected. Maybe some people will use the web browser on a console for some of that stuff, but it's far more likely that it's used to watch Youtube. See, you're assuming people would adopt it to GET THINGS DONE.

Inertia is a bitch and if there's a controller near me and I can turn the system on and play a game in 20 seconds. Guess what? I'm not going to write a fuckin blog post and fill in a spreadsheet and neither is Joe Sixpack.

It's neat that you assume people would use the console for that, but that's not how people look at consoles. Even the poorest people in the poorest ghettos use real computers in libraries and schools to get real things done. A web browser on the 360 _really_won't_change_that. Particularly since the odds of Microsoft releasing a full fledged utilitarian web browser (or Sony or Ninty) is uhm, zero. Multiple windows won't happen. Tabs probably won't even happen. Being productive would require too much discipline from folks who've no reason to be productive on a console.

I know what the internet is used for. And I know that a browser on a console isn't going to be used for the vast majority of that. Odds are it's most common use would be throwing porn on the tv screen - if the 360 isn't already used for that :P.

Edit: Roac, this entire string of conversation is kind of a hypothetical involving the release of a wireless keyboard. Or at least I thought so. And even then, I still don't think people will be productive.

[Cyrrex]

Warning:  Wild speculation to follow!

The day my console also acts as a reasonably good internet browser and can handle KB and mouse input is the day my console, for all intents and purposes, becomes my home PC.   I don't like the thought of that AT ALL.  Just to throw out a completely arbitrary number, let's just say that for a large portion of us, 90% of our home PC usage is either games or internet browsing.  For me, it would probably be 99.9%.  In other words, I and a whole shitload of people, no longer need the PC.  I can't even begin to imagine the effect this would have on the whole of the PC industry and the related advances in technology, but it can only be bad.  Bad for us, even.

Combine that with the fact that consoles as we know them today are essentially non-upgradeable and that all of the software is 100% platform specific, propriety stuff.  Sony are saying all kinds of silly shit about how their machine virtually is a PC, but at the end of the day I would put my money on Microsoft to win that particular battle.   They already know how to do the PC shit.  I'd just as soon not live in a world where all of my choices are taken from me.

[edlavallee]

Can't wait to send email with a controller.

I bet people would have said that not to long ago about sending email via cell phone. Blackberry anyone?

Warning:  Wild speculation to follow!

The day my console also acts as a reasonably good internet browser and can handle KB and mouse input is the day my console, for all intents and purposes, becomes my home PC.   I don't like the thought of that AT ALL.  Just to throw out a completely arbitrary number, let's just say that for a large portion of us, 90% of our home PC usage is either games or internet browsing.  For me, it would probably be 99.9%.  In other words, I and a whole shitload of people, no longer need the PC.  I can't even begin to imagine the effect this would have on the whole of the PC industry and the related advances in technology, but it can only be bad.  Bad for us, even.

Combine that with the fact that consoles as we know them today are essentially non-upgradeable and that all of the software is 100% platform specific, propriety stuff.  Sony are saying all kinds of silly shit about how their machine virtually is a PC, but at the end of the day I would put my money on Microsoft to win that particular battle.   They already know how to do the PC shit.  I'd just as soon not live in a world where all of my choices are taken from me.

Generally people don't want to have to upgrade their computers. Joe Sixpack, or more accurately Joe Boomer does not even set the time on his DVD player (that his kids bought him to replace his betamax), thinking about PC upgrades makes him only want to remain in his tech insulated cocoon (not to mention keeping virus software up to date or installing op system patches). The money is in mass appeal, not niche. That money is made in volume, not in margin. Niche money is made in the margins.

Just because you don't like it does not mean it won't happen. Savvy business people are already looking at a way to bring these together and PC makers better think of how they can profit from this convergence and how their product needs to change to remain relevant.

[Cyrrex]

Can't wait to send email with a controller.

I bet people would have said that not to long ago about sending email via cell phone. Blackberry anyone?

Warning:  Wild speculation to follow!

The day my console also acts as a reasonably good internet browser and can handle KB and mouse input is the day my console, for all intents and purposes, becomes my home PC.   I don't like the thought of that AT ALL.  Just to throw out a completely arbitrary number, let's just say that for a large portion of us, 90% of our home PC usage is either games or internet browsing.  For me, it would probably be 99.9%.  In other words, I and a whole shitload of people, no longer need the PC.  I can't even begin to imagine the effect this would have on the whole of the PC industry and the related advances in technology, but it can only be bad.  Bad for us, even.

Combine that with the fact that consoles as we know them today are essentially non-upgradeable and that all of the software is 100% platform specific, propriety stuff.  Sony are saying all kinds of silly shit about how their machine virtually is a PC, but at the end of the day I would put my money on Microsoft to win that particular battle.   They already know how to do the PC shit.  I'd just as soon not live in a world where all of my choices are taken from me.

Generally people don't want to have to upgrade their computers. Joe Sixpack, or more accurately Joe Boomer does not even set the time on his DVD player (that his kids bought him to replace his betamax), thinking about PC upgrades makes him only want to remain in his tech insulated cocoon (not to mention keeping virus software up to date or installing op system patches). The money is in mass appeal, not niche. That money is made in volume, not in margin. Niche money is made in the margins.

Just because you don't like it does not mean it won't happen. Savvy business people are already looking at a way to bring these together and PC makers better think of how they can profit from this convergence and how their product needs to change to remain relevant.

Don't get me wrong, I have a strong feeling that it will happen eventually.

My specultion regarding the technological advances has little to do with whether or not Joe Sixpack wants to upgrade his rig, and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that with consoles lasting 3 to 5 years that there won't be either a need or incentive for companies like Nvidia and ATI (to throw out an example) to develop tech at the rate that they currently do.

[Roac]

I bet people would have said that not to long ago about sending email via cell phone. Blackberry anyone?

Blackberry != T9.  Even so, it's still somewhat of a pain to use, but it offers something the PC does not; mobility.  Consoles don't offer anything that the PC in the next room don't already have in spades.  If it's a choice between email on the console, and email on the PC, I suspect most people are going to use the PC, because the PC trumps via ease of use (for emailing/browsing) and functionality.  Consoles will only replace PCs when they have the same ease of use and functionality for end users as PCs do.  The potential is there, and no doubt all companies involved see it.  Certainly MS would  to dominate the console market and have both hardware and software, as they do the PC market with software only so I don't think there's any shortage of desire on behalf of companies.  The pieces just aren't there yet.  At this point it's still "neat", a curisoity, and potential.

[edlavallee]

Consoles will only replace PCs when they have the same ease of use and functionality for end users as PCs do.

At this point, I think the only "ease of use" and "functionality" missing is a mouse and keyboard.

[HaemishM]

Consoles will only replace PCs when they have the same ease of use and functionality for end users as PCs do.

At this point, I think the only "ease of use" and "functionality" missing is a mouse and keyboard.

A keyboard and the applications actually. A mouse really isn't needed, but a controller doesn't double for a mouse well. Things like the Wiimote is where that kind of thing needs to go. Hell, even the PS3 motion-sensing could double for the functionality of a mouse.

But the real trick isn't even the hardware, it's the software. 360 Live is a good first step, and if you think it isn't the first (really second) step to invalidating the PC and making Microsoft the owner of the settop box/computer/gamemachine/media center, you're high. The X-Box strategy has never been about ruling the gaming roost, it's been about putting a Microsoft box in the TV room to run your media/entertainment. The 720 (or whatever the next X-Box is) will have Internet applications, or remote applications like word processing, email, Internet browsing, and media delivery (TV, movies and music). You won't own the software like you do PC software, you will rent it as part of your Live membership.

Or at least, you should be. If that isn't Microsoft's long-term plan, they are fucking idiots. This kind of thinking goes back to 1995, when Microsoft first tried to put out set-top boxes for movies on demand and interactive TV. The success of the PS1 and PS2 is what led them to take the path through consoles instead of WebTV.

[Morfiend]

Inertia is a bitch and if there's a controller near me and I can turn the system on and play a game in 20 seconds. Guess what? I'm not going to write a fuckin blog post and fill in a spreadsheet and neither is Joe Sixpack.

But you COULD write this post with a mouse and keyboard in your hands, and some decent gaming 20 seconds away.

One media system to rule them all.

[edlavallee]

But the real trick isn't even the hardware, it's the software.

Applications as a service in the webworld. You don't need the software. It's all part of the "on-demand" world.

[HaemishM]

Exactamundo.

[OcellotJenkins]

Not to derail, but since TBS was mentioned, I'm wondering if anyone can recommend some good TBS games for Gamecube, PS2, or PC.  Age of Empires DS has rejuvinated my interest in the genre.

[HaemishM]

Medieval: Total War, Rome: Total War, Shogun: Total War.

[OcellotJenkins]

Medieval: Total War, Rome: Total War, Shogun: Total War.

I'm sold!  Thanks, carry on.

[MisterNoisy]

Not to derail, but since TBS was mentioned, I'm wondering if anyone can recommend some good TBS games for Gamecube, PS2, or PC.  Age of Empires DS has rejuvinated my interest in the genre.

Gladius was quite a lot of fun (a 'lite' TBS with twitch/rhythm elements) and should be pretty cheap used.

[stray]

The Total War series are barely TBS. The combat is RTS. Just without the micro'ing typical of other RTS's. Only the map/management portions in campaign mode are set apart for turn based pacing.


I liked Gladius too. But I guess that's more of a tactical combat game than it is a strategy game. Still turn based though, and definitely worth the 10 dollars you can find it for these days.