Ubisoft reveals seven launchish Wii titles

[HaemishM]

You're going to be doing prepackaged (read: Canned) moves at a certain speed. Instead of pressing a button, you'll be moving your arm a bit.

I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

[stray]

You won't be able to do the swinging equivalant of spamming maybe?

/shrug


Also, Jedi Academy was the lightsaber game you were dreaming of. Too bad it's getting a little old now.

[edit]

Or was that Jedi Knight 2? I forget.

[Cyrrex]

You're going to be doing prepackaged (read: Canned) moves at a certain speed. Instead of pressing a button, you'll be moving your arm a bit.

I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

As long as there is enough variety in the "canned" moves and the control is responsive enough, I don't see the problem either.  What do you want, complete freedom of movement with a lightsaber?  As appealing as that might sound on the surface, it probably means that the AI Darth Vader is going to liquify your ass.

There is a much bigger problem, in my opinion.  My wife already thinks I'm a big enough of a dork.  I can only imagine what she'll think the first time I power up my virtual saber and put it through the infinity loop, only to drop it on the floor whilst tripping over the ottoman.

[stray]

As appealing as that might sound on the surface, it probably means that the AI Darth Vader is going to liquify your ass.

Strange. Why do you think that? Restrictions to movement are generally meant to put you at a disadvantage.

Besides, there is no such thing as an AI Darth Vader. Not yet at least.

[Cyrrex]

As appealing as that might sound on the surface, it probably means that the AI Darth Vader is going to liquify your ass.

Strange. Why do you think that? Restrictions to movement are generally meant to put you at a disadvantage.

Besides, there is no such thing as an AI Darth Vader. Not yet at least.

The example was an invented one.  I'll try to explain what I meant though:  Let's just assume that whatever game we are talking about involves the player being forced into lightsaber duels with really proficient bad guy AI.  In order for these to be any fun at all, there going to be some relatively quick pacing.  Attacking, blocking, parrying and whatnot at relatively high speeds.  Your opponent Jedi/Sith type going to need to be reasonably good at all this, otherwise there won't be any fun to have whatsoever.

Now imagine yourself as the player, whose on screen lightsaber precisely mimics your every action (assuming that the control is perfect).   In the absence of "canned" moves, you are really going to be dependent on your actual skills as a swordsman.   Problem is, you don't have any such skills.   You are going to be a spastic hurricane.  Your AI opponent will either "realistically" block and parry all of your sad attempts (unlike you, he is skilled), or you are going to hack him to pieces as a result of your spazziness.  Neither of these possibilities sound particularly fun.  The reverse is also true, where your level-headed, professional swordsman AI bad guy is going to level precise strikes in the direction of your vital organs.  Either it will be so slow as to allow you to reasonably block the attack (not fun), or you are going to get impaled 7 times out of 10 (also not fun).

I would love to be wrong.  Just seems like some restraints will be necessary.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, a lot of what I read here these days has me saying that.

"Seems like some restraints will be neccesary."

[Roac]

The example was an invented one.  I'll try to explain what I meant though:  Let's just assume that whatever game we are talking about involves the player being forced into lightsaber duels with really proficient bad guy AI.  In order for these to be any fun at all, there going to be some relatively quick pacing.  Attacking, blocking, parrying and whatnot at relatively high speeds.  Your opponent Jedi/Sith type going to need to be reasonably good at all this, otherwise there won't be any fun to have whatsoever.

Now imagine yourself as the player, whose on screen lightsaber precisely mimics your every action (assuming that the control is perfect).   In the absence of "canned" moves, you are really going to be dependent on your actual skills as a swordsman.   Problem is, you don't have any such skills.   You are going to be a spastic hurricane.  Your AI opponent will either "realistically" block and parry all of your sad attempts (unlike you, he is skilled), or you are going to hack him to pieces as a result of your spazziness.  Neither of these possibilities sound particularly fun.

You're right, game devs haven't a clue how to balance AI wth input controls to make difficulty settings sensible.

Things they can do to make the game fun might include slowing down the responsiveness of the sword, make damage relative to speed (fast = less damage), enable certain types of combo maneuvers (left swipe + chop = super spin sunshine move), map control movements to certain maneuvers instead of direct sword control, give hefty bonuses to good defense (meaning, spaz movements are unlikely to defend yourself, which means heavy damage), have moves cost stamina (spaz = tired), and so forth.  I'm sure a dev could add another dozen ideas.

The hard part isn't what to do with the controller, it's getting the damn thing to work to begin with.  So long as Nintendo does their job well in getting the functionality of the control where it needs to be, and have the SDK support the needs of game devs and make development of this control easy, things should be fine.  Some games will suck with it, but some games just suck.

[Cyrrex]

You're right, game devs haven't a clue how to balance AI wth input controls to make difficulty settings sensible.

I assume this is meant as sarcasm, which is odd, being that I completely agree with you.

[HaemishM]

So let's say that Red Steel or theoretical light saber game or whatever has pre-programmed movements you must do. Why do I fail to see that as a bad thing?

Because if it was on a controller, I'd have to go through pre-programmed movements, only I'd do it with my thumb on an analog stick (or pair of sticks). I'm not so good with my thumbs, which is why first-person shooters on consoles are so hard. Imprecise is the exact word I'd use to describe those motions.

Though not a master swordsman, or much more than a Star Wars Nerd without the video camera, my body does at least intuitively understand the motions. It knows how to point a gun, or swing a sword. That's the beauty of a motion-sensitive control scheme. Sure, there's going to be pre-programmed motions I have to follow, but so what? It isn't like current controllers are any different in that respect. The difference comes in that IF the developer does a good job with both the hardware and the software, the motions should feel more intuitive, and thus more immersive.

And besides, if there was absolutely no restraint on movement with say the sword interface, I'm sure the character would either chop his own leg off (like I'd probably do with a real sword and no training) or not feel as immersive because of my flailing, nerdy awkwardness.

It all comes down to execution. Saying "you'll go through pre-programmed motions" is just being negative, just like saying "Red Steel with be teh awesomest" is being a fanbois. I'm prepared for the Wii to suck it, I'm just hopeful that it won't.

The innovation in video games isn't going to come in the form of graphical improvements, bigger storage devices or online play. It's going to be in interfaces between man and machine.

[Strazos]

Sure, there's going to be pre-programmed motions I have to follow, but so what? It isn't like current controllers are any different in that respect. The difference comes in that IF the developer does a good job with both the hardware and the software, the motions should feel more intuitive, and thus more immersive.

RE: Trauma Center, Lost Magic.

I'm pretty sure no one here is going to argue that the control schemes used in these games were superior to the alternative of simply using buttons and a d-pad.

[Yegolev]

The important bit is that you would not see a game like Trauma Center without the particular control interface.  Some games are not going to work well with the Wiimote for exactly the same reason that a console FPS sucks donkey cock: the gametype isn't matched well with the controller.  The Wii launch titles don't worry me because I expect them to use the Wiimote as effectively as the first analog-stick-using games, at best.  I say at best because there was at least a predecessor to the analog stick, while there isn't any sort of precursor to the Wiimote.  Maybe the DS touch screen, if you stretch.

The thing that I (and Haem if I might speak for him) am excited about is the way this thing could spawn entirely new game genres.  Basball, tennis and swordfighting are the easy ideas.  If nothing else, it should let someone make a real RTS and FPS for your living room.  The crazy thing is that Madden seems to be well-suited to this interface, which is something that I really hadn't thought of.  I later thought that the Wiimote might serve as a steering wheel for driving games, which would get me out of having to buy and -- even worse -- use a steering wheel to play a racing simulator.  This sort of unknown territory is terribly exciting, while I pretty much know what I'm going to see in any given game for 360, PS3 or -- to a large extent -- PC.

[Sky]

Some games are not going to work well with the Wiimote for exactly the same reason that a console FPS sucks donkey cock: the gametype isn't matched well with the controller.

I agree with you, but....Halotards.

[HaemishM]

Some games are not going to work well with the Wiimote for exactly the same reason that a console FPS sucks donkey cock: the gametype isn't matched well with the controller.

I agree with you, but....Halotards.

Meh, no different than WoWtards, RaidTards, Squeenitards, etc.

[Yegolev]

Are you calling me a Wiitard?

[HaemishM]

Wiiron.

[schild]

Some games are not going to work well with the Wiimote for exactly the same reason that a console FPS sucks donkey cock: the gametype isn't matched well with the controller.

I agree with you, but....Halotards.

Meh, no different than WoWtards, RaidTards, Squeenitards, etc.

ComPLETELY different. Halotards use the worst tool for the job. They use a hammer to vacuum the carpeting. Meanwhile WoWtards, etc. use a keyboard to plan an MMOG.