A new problem: temperature

[Venkman]

Had to move the computer to the second floor, which does not get nearly the A/C the basement did (old house, unbalanced system, central air my eye when I still need window units on the second floor). Long story short, my computer didn't like the geological conditions so much it dumped 25% off of my GHz speed, from 1.73GHz to 1.3. Now I got me a real problem. It's an Alienware Aurora I bought in April 2002 (1.73Ghz Asus A7N266C DDR with Socket A nVidia nForce 415-D DDR SDRAM, AMD Ahtlon XP 2000+, 1gb RAM) with what it calls a "KoolMAXX Cooling System". That latter bit to me looks like little more than five fans

Never having dug into this before, for fear mixed with ignorance, I grab ahold of SpeedFan. Apparently, not only am I operating at about 108deg on mobo, I'm at 118deg on the CPU (I think. It says "Asus AS99127F" and "LM75", and I know it's an Asus mobo). That seems high, so I took off the side of the case and pointed a fan right at it. In a few minutes that dropped it to 86deg/113deg respectively.

Update

Thanks to Hal, Strazos and Engels below, and other stuff, the mobo is at 79deg F and CPU at 106deg F.

Still need to find out how to grab back that lost 400GHz of CPU though.

[hal]

First, buy a can of compressed air and don't be afraid to use it. At the age your system is the thermal goo between your CPU and heatsink may be less than you would like. You might try renewing that but I offer no guarantees of success. I would try a floor fan (I've had one blowing on my video card for over a year). But I'm the kinda guy that has never painted a car, If it goes when I push the pedal on the right and stops when I push the pedal on the left I'm happy. Know what I mean?

[Venkman]

Heh yea I'm right with ya. :)

The mobo seems to be holding setting now at 81deg (btw, this was all in Fahreiheit) and the CPU at 108deg.

I'd like to tell the BIOS to give me back the 440GHz it ripped off from me now. How do I do that? I can't seem to access that line item in the BIOS even though that section is technically manually changeable.

[hal]

The answer to that is complex. If AMD do you have cool and quiet enabled? If so its in control not you. Intell may have a similar system depending on your build. 108 isn't panic but is a concern. I wouldn't be in a hurry to raise frequency until you lowered temps to 90 or less. Maybe other folks will speak but thats how I feel.

[Venkman]

Ok. And it still is registered that Fan #2 is out. Odd that.

Trouble is I never ran into any of this before. It was always way-cool in the basement, because of how the yokels before me set up the central A/C (never seen a purely parallel-approach to ductwork before...). I am wondering if some whacko fan I've never seen before and can't see now is either burned out or somehow busted down such that the mobo doesn't think it's there anymore.

Oh and good point on AMD/Intel. I updated the original post to include: AMD Athlon XP 2000+

[hal]

It could be the fan, but the circuit that monitors the fan is not the most reliable of things that man has built. I would be inclined to trust your observations over it and depending on just how your BIOS is programmed may (or may not) be the cause of the frequency loss. Are we having fun yet?

[Venkman]

Hehe, and I really did plan on some copious ratting tonight too... if my computer's gonna fry, I'd rather it not be while engaged with three Saints :)

[hal]

Your fans plug into the mother board with 3 wire connectors. Plus, minus and the pulse signal that tells your mother board the fan is alive. If the wires will reach swap some, especially the one on the CPU heatsink.See if you can change the symptoms or even follow the wires and find your fans. Its something to try anyway.

[Strazos]

D, can you give those Athlon temps in Celcius? I have a 2700+, and the whitepaper on it says it can safely operate at up to 80c.

I have always had a little something of a heat problem. The rooms I have lived in have alwasy had shitty AC coverage, not a lot in the way of circulation. Also, my PC is in a cubby at the moment (which I may remedy tomarrow). It may Feel hot, but you're good if you can keep the CPU temp under 70-75c. You can pretty much disregard the mobo temp, as it's mostly tied to CPU temp, and the CPU is pretty much the first part that will be affected by rising heat.

[hal]

I get 108 X 5/9=60. I don't do Celsius but at 25 = room temp I'll guess thats right.

[hal]

Or is it 5/9 +32? If so then 92. Sigh, Im really not sure.

[Venkman]

Good point Strazos. The mobo is 26deg celsius (79deg F) now and CPU is 41deg celsius (106deg F).

Seems to be well within spec. Now if only the bios would give me back my GHz. I keep thinking it'll just automatically do it, but such is the astounding level of ignorance I have for this.

I mean, I know I can't just choose a new clock speed from some list. Seems like I need to change both the CPU Frequency Multiple (currently: 5.0x) and the CPU/PCI Frequencey (MHz) (currently: 100/33) to get to the desired internal CPU speed. But I don't want to mess with that until I know lots more.

[Engels]

106 F is a very decent temperature for a Socket A CPU. Its positively artic. Right now, my 939 socket is running, at idle, at 118 F, and I've never had any troubles.

 I do not think that your drop in gigahertz has anything to do with temperature. Is there any chance that you went into your bios and changed some settings? Perhaps you had a failure at some point, and your bios set everything to 'safemode', or, in other words, the lowest clockspeed multiplier? Check your bios again, and see if there are settings such as safe mode, performance, standard, etc.

[hal]

never mind me. I thought 68f kinda equaled 25 C but 5/9 x 68 = 37. Plus 32 just gets worse. I don't know anything about Celsius. Please disregard the above comments. Jeez I'm glad I'm no longer taking phisics courses.

[Venkman]

I do not think that your drop in gigahertz has anything to do with temperature. Is there any chance that you went into your bios and changed some settings? Perhaps you had a failure at some point, and your bios set everything to 'safemode', or, in other words, the lowest clockspeed multiplier? Check your bios again, and see if there are settings such as safe mode, performance, standard, etc.

There was this message I got that seemed to indicate some sort of safe mode thing, but it flashed before I could get a beed on it. I'll definitely take a look.

And thanks! You've saved me some money at least :)

[Venkman]

Ok, dug through the BIOS and there's no clearly-marked blinking neon sign that says anything about "you are operating in gimped mode". Looks to be all manual setting stuff there, things like the mentioned CPU Freq Mutliplier, CPU/PCI Freq, etc. I am quite sure I'm missing something.

Alienware tech support is open during the week only, so I'll IM them tomorrow at some point. I've never talked to them before, so much so the email addy they have for me on file is three generations out of date. I can't even check replies to that address anymore :)

[Trippy]

Ok, dug through the BIOS and there's no clearly-marked blinking neon sign that says anything about "you are operating in gimped mode". Looks to be all manual setting stuff there, things like the mentioned CPU Freq Mutliplier, CPU/PCI Freq, etc. I am quite sure I'm missing something.

What's the CPU multiplier set at? For a 2000+ it should be at 12.5 (133 MHz x 12.5 = 1.67 GHz).

[Venkman]

Thanks Trippy! Hehe odd timing there. Right before the latest restart, I tried a new Google string. Sure 'nuf, some guy over at the AMD forums said the same thing :) So I restarted and set the PCI/CPU to 133/33 and it immediately registered me at 1.74Ghz (wierd that the thing shipped to me at 1.74GhZ, even have the original paperwork, yet it's the XP 2000+ thing rated at 1.67...)

Now things get odd though:

After restarting from that change, I go to change the Multiple from 5.0 to 12.5 as recommended. For some reason, it doesn't take. I change it to 12.5 and leave the Advanced tab. When I come back, it's 5.0 again. Yet my CPU Speed is holding steady (and I only gained 3deg F on the CPU temp... though I haven't fired up Eve yet ;) ).

One more stab at that Multiple and I'm going to bed.

[Venkman]

Well that was the last stab. Holds steady at 5.0. Not sure why. What's worse, I'm not sure what it was BEFORE I lost the GHz. Now, in my world, I get that nice 1.73Ghz, I see it confirmed by SpeedFan, I see my CPU temp holding near where it was, and I see an issue closed.

But, that unchangeable multiple thing is gonna bother me, so I'll see if I can get Alienware to answer. Maybe I need to update the BIOS (it's v1.0.0.1). I never have. Never had the need. Maybe I do now.

Thanks everyone for the help!

[Trippy]

You can try running something like CPU-Z to confirm the speed it's running at.

[Righ]

never mind me. I thought 68f kinda equaled 25 C but 5/9 x 68 = 37. Plus 32 just gets worse. I don't know anything about Celsius. Please disregard the above comments. Jeez I'm glad I'm no longer taking phisics courses.

Subtract 32 from the Fahrenheit value and divide by 9/5 (1.8) to get Celsius. 68 F = 20 C. Or just use a computer/calculator with a conversion function. Or the web:

http://www.digitaldutch.com/unitconverter/

[Engels]

Well that was the last stab. Holds steady at 5.0. Not sure why. What's worse, I'm not sure what it was BEFORE I lost the GHz. Now, in my world, I get that nice 1.73Ghz, I see it confirmed by SpeedFan, I see my CPU temp holding near where it was, and I see an issue closed.

But, that unchangeable multiple thing is gonna bother me, so I'll see if I can get Alienware to answer. Maybe I need to update the BIOS (it's v1.0.0.1). I never have. Never had the need. Maybe I do now.

Thanks everyone for the help!

Uhm, this may seem like an obvious and silly thing to ask, but are you doing f10? Saving settings and exiting?

[Venkman]

You can try running something like CPU-Z to confirm the speed it's running at.

Thanks Trippy, I'll try that tonight.

Uhm, this may seem like an obvious and silly thing to ask, but are you doing f10? Saving settings and exiting?

Hehe, understandable question. The first time, no, I moved from Advanced to Exit, restarted, went into the BIOS UI and saw it hadn't changed. It was then I found out the setting wouldn't stick. And it was after that I saw the F10 (Save & Exit) function. Whether I went deeper into the page (there's some sub-options) or left and came back, I could change that 5.0 Multiple to whatever I wanted and it'd keep reverting.

I'll see what CPU-Z does for me.

[Engels]

Is there an inbetween setting for the multiplier? Try increasing it just a bit at first. That will at least tell you wether the problem resides with the bios or if somehow your chip is the one that's rejecting the new settings. Also, you may want to see if there are bios upgrades for your board. The process is pretty simple these days, like installling a new driver.

[Alkiera]

never mind me. I thought 68f kinda equaled 25 C but 5/9 x 68 = 37. Plus 32 just gets worse. I don't know anything about Celsius. Please disregard the above comments. Jeez I'm glad I'm no longer taking phisics courses.

Subtract 32 from the Fahrenheit value and divide by 9/5 (1.8) to get Celsius. 68 F = 20 C. Or just use a computer/calculator with a conversion function. Or the web:

http://www.digitaldutch.com/unitconverter/

Or just type it into Google.  http://www.google.com/search?q=68+F+in+celsius Google really DOES know everything.
--
Alkiera

[Strazos]

Yeah, AMDs tend to run hotter. It's somewhat annoying - it actually raises my room temperature.

[Venkman]

Is there an inbetween setting for the multiplier? Try increasing it just a bit at first. That will at least tell you wether the problem resides with the bios or if somehow your chip is the one that's rejecting the new settings. Also, you may want to see if there are bios upgrades for your board. The process is pretty simple these days, like installling a new driver.

Yea, it happens regardless of the setting I choose.

I've been looking to see if I can find a Bios upgrade too. Why can't I just type in "Athlon XP 2000+ bios upgrade" into Google and get a pilegible response. Better still, why can't I just do that at the AMD site? You'd think after all these years of the commoditization of PCs, building one's own would be common knowledge such that getting info on bios would be easy.

Woe is me :)

[Trippy]

Is there an inbetween setting for the multiplier? Try increasing it just a bit at first. That will at least tell you wether the problem resides with the bios or if somehow your chip is the one that's rejecting the new settings. Also, you may want to see if there are bios upgrades for your board. The process is pretty simple these days, like installling a new driver.

Unless he's got an Athlon XP Mobile the max multiplier is locked, though there are ways around it including the infamous pencil trace hack.

[Trippy]

I've been looking to see if I can find a Bios upgrade too. Why can't I just type in "Athlon XP 2000+ bios upgrade" into Google and get a pilegible response. Better still, why can't I just do that at the AMD site? You'd think after all these years of the commoditization of PCs, building one's own would be common knowledge such that getting info on bios would be easy.

Get it from the ASUS site.

[Venkman]

Is there an inbetween setting for the multiplier? Try increasing it just a bit at first. That will at least tell you wether the problem resides with the bios or if somehow your chip is the one that's rejecting the new settings. Also, you may want to see if there are bios upgrades for your board. The process is pretty simple these days, like installling a new driver.

Unless he's got an Athlon XP Mobile the max multiplier is locked, though there are ways around it including the infamous pencil trace hack.

I have the Athlonx XP 2000+. So is my Multiplier locked at 5.0?

And thanks for pointing me to the ASUS site!

[Trippy]

Is there an inbetween setting for the multiplier? Try increasing it just a bit at first. That will at least tell you wether the problem resides with the bios or if somehow your chip is the one that's rejecting the new settings. Also, you may want to see if there are bios upgrades for your board. The process is pretty simple these days, like installling a new driver.

Unless he's got an Athlon XP Mobile the max multiplier is locked, though there are ways around it including the infamous pencil trace hack.

I have the Athlonx XP 2000+. So is my Multiplier locked at 5.0?

Umm...no. Your multiplier should default to and go no higher than 12.5.

[Righ]

Yeah, AMDs tend to run hotter. It's somewhat annoying - it actually raises my room temperature.

You probably screwed up applying the thermal paste. You should have asked for more detailed instructions.

[Engels]

Yeah, AMDs tend to run hotter. It's somewhat annoying - it actually raises my room temperature.

You probably screwed up applying the thermal paste. You should have asked for more detailed instructions.

lol, you are just mean Righ. He got more instructions on applying thermal paste than most tech courses provide.

[WayAbvPar]

Yeah, AMDs tend to run hotter. It's somewhat annoying - it actually raises my room temperature.

You probably screwed up applying the thermal paste. You should have asked for more detailed instructions.

 :-D :-D :-D

[Strazos]

Well, it was fairly obvious once I uncapped the HSF from the CPU...so I was basically asking for instructions without being able to see the makeup of the CPU itself.

It was somewhat moot though, as I ended up getting a replacement HSF anyway.