1500 dollar PC

[Arrrgh]

Sure, they'll replace the pentium Ds in there now.

[Sky]

Abit recalls.

[Engels]

Doesn't surprise me really. I picked up a packaged Abit boxed motherboard at Fry's the other day and the thing was literally rattling in there.

[Strazos]

That stupid Fatal1ty board has no fucking slots on it...Abit, lol.

[MrHat]

Heh, just picked up a 4000+ 2gb 320gb sata with x800 shuttle for $550.

[schild]

Yea, Shuttle is pretty awesome.

Which case did you get?

[MrHat]

Yea, Shuttle is pretty awesome.

Which case did you get?

The one with the blue front.  Hell of a deal, just configuring it now for perma use on my tv.

[Sky]

Arg. Lightning hit the pole across the street, knocked out my cable modem and blew the phone lines to hell. Like I can unplug the power from the phone and the data line is pushing enough signal to play a dial tone through the speaker like it's possessed. Oddly, it somehow knocked out the LED on my subwoofer and something in my pc sound chain. Receiver seems to work fine, but no pc sound. I hope it didn't burn out my motherlovin' Dolby chip. It's not like they're around these days (RIP nForce2).

Might be new PC time, though I really need to wait out Conroe imo.

[Engels]

Get a UPS Sky. Its a combo clean power source (it charges a capacitor that then dispenses 'filtered' eletricity) and ironclad surge protector.

[Sky]

Oh, I know. I had a cheapo UPS on my tv. I'm putting a monster UPS on my gear (pc+tv) tonight.

Seems it entered via the subwoofer's power cable > receiver > mobo coax digital audio, only knocking out the pc audio and led on the sub. Very odd, but in my experience lightning strikes are very odd like that, they can pass right through a bunch of stuff without damaging it.

[Engels]

Oh, I know. I had a cheapo UPS on my tv. I'm putting a monster UPS on my gear (pc+tv) tonight.

Seems it entered via the subwoofer's power cable > receiver > mobo coax digital audio, only knocking out the pc audio and led on the sub. Very odd, but in my experience lightning strikes are very odd like that, they can pass right through a bunch of stuff without damaging it.

Good god man, that's a 50 kilo 2000 Watt UPS! You could power entire server banks with it!

[Yegolev]

Get a UPS Sky. Its a combo clean power source (it charges a capacitor that then dispenses 'filtered' eletricity) and ironclad surge protector.

The power supply is only clean if you get the double-conversion type.  Under normal powered conditions, a line-interactive UPS must use a separate surge protector.  Of course, the double-conversion units are damn expensive.

[Engels]

Get a UPS Sky. Its a combo clean power source (it charges a capacitor that then dispenses 'filtered' eletricity) and ironclad surge protector.

The power supply is only clean if you get the double-conversion type.  Under normal powered conditions, a line-interactive UPS must use a separate surge protector.  Of course, the double-conversion units are damn expensive.

So you're saying that an 'ordinary' UPS neither provides a steady (or clean) power source nor protects against electrical surges? What the hell are they for then?

[Yegolev]

I'm only saying that it probably doesn't work the way you think it does.  The ones that have your machinery run from battery, totally isolated from input power all the time, are the double-conversion kind.  Those are the best ones, but they cost.  The line-interactive ones have the battery in parallel instead of series, and you run off of the power grid until it goes poof and you are switched to the battery.  So these UPS contain a surge protector as well.  I priced up some double-conversion units a while back... too rich for my blood.  Hard to find, too.

[Engels]

Well, you see, the thing is, I had dirty power over at my old home. Older building, old wireing, you get the picture. So I bought this UPS since I was tired of fried motherboards. They get expensive after a while. The UPS I bought, for something around 90 bucks, had this software meter that showed me an output of what was going in, and what was going out. And behold, crud was indeed coming in, with voltage fluctuations and wierd ass spikes whenever my upstairs neighbors decided it was bust-a-move time with Run DMC. The software also reported a nice steady and clean flow of electricity out of the UPS and indicated that it compensated for voltage fluctuations coming into the UPS.

It may have been a line-interactive connection, and as you say, the back-up power source only turned on when there was indeed a full on short of some sort, but I think that somewhere in the mix its a bit better than a simple back up and cheap ole surge protector. For one, normal surge protectors are only glorified fuses. They blow when a serious spike occurs. This UPS shut down if it detected voltage fluctuations over 110% for over 60 seconds and 130% for over 30 seconds and immediate shut down if in excess of that. That's something that a surge protector won't do, and its what kept me from frying more PSUs and Motherboards.

[Strazos]

Stupid Question Time:

If I'm going to be cleaning the gunk off my cpu/heatsink, should I disconnect the power from the PSU? I've always recieved conflicting answers on this.

If I'm going to be cleaning it, should I remove it from its mobo slot? Will this do anything funky with my OS when I re-insert it? Should power be disconnected when I do this?


I haven't touched the CPU in about 4 years, since I first installed it.

[Sky]

Good god man, that's a 50 kilo 2000 Watt UPS! You could power entire server banks with it!

:-D Almost killed me lugging it upstairs in the heat and humidity yesterday.

[Engels]

Stupid Question Time:

If I'm going to be cleaning the gunk off my cpu/heatsink, should I disconnect the power from the PSU? I've always recieved conflicting answers on this.

If I'm going to be cleaning it, should I remove it from its mobo slot? Will this do anything funky with my OS when I re-insert it? Should power be disconnected when I do this?


I haven't touched the CPU in about 4 years, since I first installed it.

First of all, its advised that you buy a static protection wrists strap. This is basically a little strap around your wrist that you clapm onto a piece of metal (not the computer!) that grounds you and prevents micro static discharges that can harm delicate components in the computer.

As far as leaving the power cord plugged in and connected to the PSU, I have heard different stories, but in the end, I don't think it amounts to too much, since an ESD from you won't be affected by wether the thing is plugged into the wall or not; the charge is too small.

As long as the power is off on your PSU (no small light on your motherboard) then taking out the cpu while cleaning the cooling system shouldn't mess up your system at all. But I don't think you need to remove the CPU, just the fan. At least in most cases that's true. Also, remember, the 'gunk' on your CPU might also be thermal paste, so be damned sure you reapply it after you're done. Remember, spread the paste evenly on the cpu in a fine film, not butter on toast. But also be sure to have all parts of the cpu's contact with the fan covered with the paste or you get no heat transfer in spots, and that's just as bad.

[Strazos]

Where can you get such a wristband....Radio Shack?

[WayAbvPar]

Pretty much anyplace that sells computer hardware should have them.

[Morfiend]

Hell of a deal, just configuring it now for perma use on my tv.

How is your TV treating you hat? You still love it as much as I love mine?

Oh yeah, Xbox 360 looks AMAZING on our TV.

[Strazos]

Pretty much anyplace that sells computer hardware should have them.

So....does that mean Best Buy? There are surprisingly few places around here that sell hardware.

[WayAbvPar]

Pretty much anyplace that sells computer hardware should have them.

So....does that mean Best Buy? There are surprisingly few places around here that sell hardware.

Yep.

[Strazos]

Ok..if I get that, then my next problem will be finding a grounded piece of metal to attach it to...I really cannot think of anything.

[WayAbvPar]

Most folks I know that use them just clip it to the inner frame of the PC case.

[Strazos]

But but but Engels said not to!

[Miguel]

Most folks I know that use them just clip it to the inner frame of the PC case.

You need to be clipped to a ground connection.  If the PC is plugged in, typically the case is 'pseudo' grounded through the case of the power supply.
UL requires that the outside of the power supply have a low impedance path to ground through its chassis (which means a wire from the power supply case to the
bottom lug of the three pin power cord as it enters the power supply), which means that so long as it is plugged in, and screwed into your case through the mounting flanges, then the case is likely grounded as well.  I say 'pseudo' because some frames are plastic, or are painted which means that you aren't guaranteed a ground connection.  For ESD purposes it's likely ok though.

ESD events happen because your body ends up with a huge charge from moving over surfaces, and if you touch a grounded component you form a path for
charge to ground from your body through the component.  If you ground yourself to a *known* ground connection, you cannot build up charge (and any charge
you happen to have will be shunted to ground when you connect the clip), and any grounded component and you are guaranteed to be at the same level.

This is an oversimplification of the process but I think it gets the point across.

[Bunk]

I rebuilt my system from the ground up last month after my AGP card died:


Antec Sonata II Black ATX 16IN Mid Tower Quiet Case                                                                                   $114.41 
BFG GeForce 7900 GT OC PCI-E 256MB 256BIT GDDR3 SLI Ready Video Card  1                                                $315.88 
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Processor Socket AM2 Orleans 2.2GHZ                                                                         $138.90 
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe ATX AM2 Nforce 570 SLI 2PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 3PCI SATA2 Sound GBLAN 1394 Motherboard   $172.78   
 
 SUBTOTAL: $741.97
  PST(7%): $51.94
  GST (7%): $51.94
  TOTAL: $845.85

Also added a 250 GB hdd for $100, 2 GB of Mushkin DDR2 (the cheaper OCZ Ram didn't work with the mobo) for about $220, and
a Viewsonic VX2025WM 20IN LCD Monitor BLACK/SILVER Widescreen 1680X1050 8MS 800:1 for about $410.

Was my first AMD, and I have to say, its the smoothest running, quietest system I've had yet.

Oh, and I'll add one to the list of people that will never willingly use a 4:3 monitor again.




ALL PRICES IN CANADIAN DOLLARS 

[Sky]

I'm going to try and hold off for a mid-level Conroe and o/c it to hell and back. Or I might just go for AM2 jobbies. It's a pretty good time to be considering a new system, at least.

As far as my immediate problem, I think a new sound card will hold me over for a while (until Conroe is a bit more available, anyway). My problem is that I have been totally spoiled by my Soundstorm chip! I need a digital coax or toslink that can do DD5.1.

The two options, as far as I can see in this narrow niche, are as follows:

The Auzentech X-Plosion. Does DD5.1 onboard, digital coax and toslink on the card. I've heard some reports of buggy game performance, but some are saying newer drivers have cleaned most of those up (like BF2). There also seem to be some odd issues with the DD stream not always being active, with odd workarounds. But this could be the spiritual successor to the almighty Soundstorm... About 120 bones.

The Creative Route. This will end up being a cobble. It would be an X-Fi as the sound card. Then I'd need a DTS-610 to redigitize the stream for my receiver, which doesn't have analog inputs. I'm not sure what that means for DD5.1 passthrough from movies, but sounds like a double conversion (DAC-ADC). I've also heard rumors of delay issues with this setup from the conversion process, which would be unacceptable. In fact, looking over ins/outs...the X-Fi has a single triax miniconnector out and the DTS-610 has the old 3xcoax miniconnector in. Blah. About 210 bones.

Right now I'm leaning toward the Auzentech, but I'm a bit leery of tech I've never heard of previously. Anyone got any info to share on either setup, or advice otherwise?

[dusematic]

Not being an audiphile, I find it impossible to distinguish between onboard sound and X-fi.

[Strazos]

Most folks I know that use them just clip it to the inner frame of the PC case.

You need to be clipped to a ground connection.  If the PC is plugged in, typically the case is 'pseudo' grounded through the case of the power supply.
UL requires that the outside of the power supply have a low impedance path to ground through its chassis (which means a wire from the power supply case to the
bottom lug of the three pin power cord as it enters the power supply), which means that so long as it is plugged in, and screwed into your case through the mounting flanges, then the case is likely grounded as well.  I say 'pseudo' because some frames are plastic, or are painted which means that you aren't guaranteed a ground connection.  For ESD purposes it's likely ok though.

ESD events happen because your body ends up with a huge charge from moving over surfaces, and if you touch a grounded component you form a path for
charge to ground from your body through the component.  If you ground yourself to a *known* ground connection, you cannot build up charge (and any charge
you happen to have will be shunted to ground when you connect the clip), and any grounded component and you are guaranteed to be at the same level.

This is an oversimplification of the process but I think it gets the point across.

So...leave the case plugged in, but PSU switched off, and clip on to the PSU bolts or something?

BTW, my case is full aluminum if that helps any. I really don't want to try something while doing the minor maintenance of re-applying heat compound and replacing fans.

[Engels]

So...leave the case plugged in, but PSU switched off, and clip on to the PSU bolts or something?

BTW, my case is full aluminum if that helps any. I really don't want to try something while doing the minor maintenance of re-applying heat compound and replacing fans.

The case should be good if its a metallic case. I just said not to before because then you have to be sure that the case is metallic, that it wasn't some homebrew nonsense, that the fellow remembers that he has to keep it plugged in. Its just easier to tell folks that they should ground it on something other than the computer. A lamp with a grounded cable, a fin on a wall heater, just about anything that'll wick static away from you. You can even do a test to see if its working: get a balloon, rub it on your head, and if your hair stands up from it, you're not grounded.

So, in summary, to change a CPU fan, you have to:

a) strap on a bracelet,
b) rub a ballon on your head,
c) connect the bracelet to a grounded piece of metal
d) ask your wife if your hair is standing up
e) prevent her from calling the men in the white coats
f) proceed with changing the cpu fan

[geldonyetich]

Rubbing a balloon on your head to see if you have static electricity strikes me as being about as productive as shooting yourself in the foot to see if you're bleeding.  But the other steps are good, clarifying that by "bracelet" he means one of those anti-static bracelets, and change "hair" in step d to other favored body parts.

Something else I hear works is to simply touch the case with both hands.  The idea is that it drains your staticelectric charge into the case before you start handling the components.  Granted, this would be rather electrifying if the computer were plugged in and not grounded properly.

[Brolan]

The ESD risk is over-blown, I've been working on these things since 1987 and never had any issues.  Just touch the power supply or chassis when you get started, or if you have leave the workarea and come back.  And don't be standing on a carpet or other static-creating material.

And unplug the computer before you work on it, ATX power supplies provide a constant low voltage.  You don't want those circuits powered when you are messing with them.

[Engels]

Rubbing a balloon on your head to see if you have static electricity strikes me as being about as productive as shooting yourself in the foot to see if you're bleeding. 

Uhm, aside from the fact that I was making a funny, the whole point of the exercise would be to see if the ESD bracelet, brought into the conversation 2 posts down from the first post, was working.

Something else I hear works is to simply touch the case with both hands.  Granted, this would be rather electrifying if the computer were plugged in and not grounded properly.

Not to mention that if the computer is not grounded properly, and you do have static, you've basically done exactly what you were trying to prevent!

The ESD risk is over-blown, I've been working on these things since 1987 and never had any issues. 
And unplug the computer before you work on it, ATX power supplies provide a constant low voltage.  You don't want those circuits powered when you are messing with them.

ESD risk -is- overblown, except for that one time in 10 that you do fry something. As for not having the thing plugged in, I think you mean having the PSU turned off. Older models that didn't have an actual switch on the PSU would do that, yes, but keeping the PSU plugged in and turned off provides a safe ground, as mentioned previously by Miguel.