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Author Topic: Return of the Book Thread  (Read 579534 times)
Chimpy
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Reply #6405 on: August 21, 2018, 10:58:23 AM

Re-reading 1984 because the news wasn't depressing me quite enough.

Terrifying. Truly terrifying.

Why are you scared of the war with Eurasia?

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Reg
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Reply #6406 on: August 21, 2018, 11:16:08 AM

I don't see the big deal. We've always been at war with those guys.
WayAbvPar
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Reply #6407 on: August 22, 2018, 08:11:17 AM

Let's just say I am more and more amazed that Roger Ailes didn't call Fox News the Ministry of Truth.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
Chimpy
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Reply #6408 on: August 22, 2018, 09:14:53 AM

Let's just say I am more and more amazed that Roger Ailes didn't call Fox News the Ministry of Truth.

I re-read the book in the early part of the post 9/11 era and it seemed like that War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength was becoming the motto of the country.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
NowhereMan
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Reply #6409 on: August 24, 2018, 09:56:22 AM

A constant battle between whether that or Brave New World is the story of our future. Really we've kind of got both now.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
HaemishM
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Reply #6410 on: August 24, 2018, 11:01:56 AM

The Internet is digital Soma.  why so serious?

MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #6411 on: August 25, 2018, 11:12:12 AM

The Internet is digital Soma.  why so serious?
Quote
"There was something called liberalism. Parliament, if you know what that was, passed a law against it. The records survive. Speeches about liberty of the subject. Liberty to be inefficient and miserable. Freedom to be a round peg in a square hole."

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Ard
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Reply #6412 on: September 11, 2018, 01:06:02 PM

Have we discussed the Black Company on this page yet?  No?  Good.  There's actually a new book out today, Port of Shadows, although it'll be a bit before I personally can read it, but I thought some of you might care.
Fraeg
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Reply #6413 on: September 11, 2018, 05:14:10 PM

Not sure if this is the right place but bought Fear: Trump in the White House today for Kindle and began reading it over lunch.  Not my normal reading material.  This shit is crazy.  Still only on the campaign.  And while I am not down with him as a human, Bannon's brass balls appear to be really what made the absurd become a reality.

"There is dignity and deep satisfaction in facing life and death without the comfort of heaven or the fear of hell and in sailing toward the great abyss with a smile."
WayAbvPar
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Reply #6414 on: September 11, 2018, 06:51:39 PM

I bought it too, but gotta finish my current book first. Should get to it in a couple of days. I am sure it will enrage me.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
Fraeg
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Mad skills with the rod.


Reply #6415 on: September 11, 2018, 07:39:03 PM

If I read it as speculative fiction it is fascinating and the bad guy hustler Bannon is a cool character.   Then I pause and think "no this shit is real" then I am  ACK! ACK! ACK!

only on page 96... was not very productive at work today   Ohhhhh, I see.

"There is dignity and deep satisfaction in facing life and death without the comfort of heaven or the fear of hell and in sailing toward the great abyss with a smile."
Samwise
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Reply #6416 on: September 12, 2018, 11:48:47 AM

Have we discussed the Black Company on this page yet?  No?  Good.  There's actually a new book out today, Port of Shadows

wat

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Ard
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Reply #6417 on: September 12, 2018, 12:40:32 PM

Thereís another one coming as well.  Heís been sitting on them for close to 20 years waiting out a contract or something like that.  I canít remember the full details.
Johny Cee
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Reply #6418 on: September 12, 2018, 01:38:40 PM

Thereís another one coming as well.  Heís been sitting on them for close to 20 years waiting out a contract or something like that.  I canít remember the full details.

Ummm.  I have never heard anything like that, and I think that Tor has been his publisher for ages.  His output (all books) has dramatically declined in the past ten to fifteen years, and a good chunk of that time was spent wrapping up his other series.

There have been a scattering of Black Company short stories in that time.

Edit:

He has said that retiring from GM really slowed his work down, as he did more puttering and watching baseball then writing.  That being said, he has still released like 8 or 10 books since.  Just down from an average of 2/year in the '80s/'90s.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 02:02:30 PM by Johny Cee »
Phildo
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Reply #6419 on: September 12, 2018, 02:08:08 PM

Aw man, that's great!  Now to wait the 2-3 years for a paperback version.
lamaros
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Reply #6420 on: September 15, 2018, 07:57:09 PM

I was initially put off but once I got to the significant reveal around mid-book I was pretty hooked. Of the recent works of fantasy that have tried to deal with difficult questions of power, enslavement, history, memory, justice, etc., I think this one is pretty deft in the end. You end up with some sympathy for the people who've been bossing around the orogenes even as you recognize the ugliness of what they do to them; and there are deeper struggles going on that the protagonists are unaware of at the start.


I'm two books in so far and agree with what you say. However there is a certain looseness to the writing that is somewhat annoying. A lot of mary sue ex machina and hazy characterization; everyone is who they need to be all the time.

Now, some part of that might be argued to be the authorial concept of the narrative - but I don't really think it is deliberate.

Still enjoying it, and reading the third book now. But a bit short of great, for me. (It's no Ancillary Justice).

Expect poison from the standing water.
grebo
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Reply #6421 on: September 25, 2018, 08:04:05 PM

I was initially put off but once I got to the significant reveal around mid-book I was pretty hooked. Of the recent works of fantasy that have tried to deal with difficult questions of power, enslavement, history, memory, justice, etc., I think this one is pretty deft in the end. You end up with some sympathy for the people who've been bossing around the orogenes even as you recognize the ugliness of what they do to them; and there are deeper struggles going on that the protagonists are unaware of at the start.


I've read the first, have the second to read once I slog through the rest of this Follett I started.

I can recommend pretty highly.  Story/plot etc is good.  She's a decent writer.

Warning though, it's the most Mary Sue thing I've ever read.  If that's a dealbreaker for you then don't bother.

Why don't you try our other games?
Khaldun
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Reply #6422 on: September 25, 2018, 09:27:45 PM

I think everybody has a different definition of Mary Sue than I do. A Mary Sue who is a really flawed human being who makes a lot of mistakes is only a Mary Sue if the author is a really flawed human being who makes a lot of mistakes. At which point I think we are drifting from the original idea.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #6423 on: September 25, 2018, 10:23:03 PM

A Mary Sue is a character with unearned hypercomptence and/or likeability, often an author surrogate. An author surrogate that doesn't display either of those traits is not a Mary Sue.

--Dave

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Viin
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Reply #6424 on: September 25, 2018, 11:43:04 PM

Anyone reading the Murderbot Diaries? I really liked the first one, but at $10 a pop and only 100-200 pages long, they are a bit expensive. Worth going further into the series?


- Viin
lamaros
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Reply #6425 on: September 25, 2018, 11:44:07 PM

Maybe Mary Sue isn't the exact term. But everyone is everything they need to be all the time. Constant leveling up with no grinding or foreshadowing. The contrivance makes the plotting and chacterisation feel subservient to the ideas and views of the author, rather than working in concert.

Expect poison from the standing water.
WayAbvPar
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Reply #6426 on: September 26, 2018, 01:58:05 AM

About halfway through Fear, and Woodward has performed a miracle- he made me almost like Trump in one scene, and made me hate him even more than previously in all the others. Seeing page after page after page of his disinterest, his inability, his wrong-headedness, and his pure stupidity is fucking depressing. His parents should have smothered him in his crib.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
Ironwood
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Reply #6427 on: September 26, 2018, 03:32:56 AM

His parents were the issue.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
grebo
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Reply #6428 on: September 26, 2018, 08:05:12 AM

I think everybody has a different definition of Mary Sue than I do. A Mary Sue who is a really flawed human being who makes a lot of mistakes is only a Mary Sue if the author is a really flawed human being who makes a lot of mistakes. At which point I think we are drifting from the original idea.


I say Mary Sue because one of the main characters is the same age, gender and color as the author, and is powerful and important to the entire world.  I can't help drawing parallels and it's distracting.

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NowhereMan
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Reply #6429 on: September 26, 2018, 02:19:21 PM

I think the term gets overused, what lamaros described is more events and characters being driven by the plot rather than character development. It's a needle the author needs to thread in terms of having a plot and things moving forward (the Modernists aside) while also having characters who experience events and believably change in response to those events. Having Bruce Wayne being a spoiled and shitty child, his parents get shot and then the next scene is him swearing vengeance and dedicating his whole life to fighting crime is bullshit (it generally works because people are so familiar with Batman and the event is dramatic enough). Having him spend a youth lost, angry with access to limitless money and eventually falling down a hole until he discovers someone who can guide his desire for vengeance works (more or less).

Mary Sues are super awesome author surrogates who are generally infallible. It's the stick out thing when reading badly written fan-fiction, the self-insert who has negative traits like 'being too self-sacrificing' or 'being too trusting of or merciful towards villains but never to the extent of seriously endangering someone else'. Characters can level up and become more powerful and also be author inserts without being Mary Sues, Harry Dresden kind of springs to mind in that he feels like an author insert but he fucks up a lot, his mistakes have real consequences and he grows and changes in response to his experiences. The power he acquires feels earned (definitely imo here) but he's also a super powerful author self insert.

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Ironwood
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Reply #6430 on: September 27, 2018, 03:28:56 PM

Mistborn trilogy was ok.  Got no desire to hit the next 3 tho.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Reg
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Reply #6431 on: September 27, 2018, 04:43:19 PM

Is that the Wayne and Wade stuff? I found those to actually be way better than the original Mistborn trilogy. It's set a few hundred years later where technology has advanced to late 1800's level. The kid that survived the Mistborn trilogy and was made into a Mistborn was the last Mistborn to be born. There are still magical talents you can be born with related to the same old magic but nobody has all of them anymore. It's really good.

Edit: Even better than the Black Company.
RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #6432 on: September 27, 2018, 04:45:37 PM

Wax and Wayne trilogy/quartet (I guess there's a fourth book coming out).  It has a different feel than the Mistborn series, but I like it a lot.

Reg
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Reply #6433 on: September 27, 2018, 04:47:45 PM

I hear he has plans for another trilogy set even further into the future too.
RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #6434 on: September 27, 2018, 04:56:38 PM

Yeah, that was always part of the plan (I think it was Mistborn, the 80s, then scifi future) and the first Wax and Wayne book was supposed to be a one-off, but he had fun, it got a great reception and so he expanded it into a set.

Ironwood
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Reply #6435 on: September 27, 2018, 05:29:25 PM

Goddamn it people, don't do this to me.

I read a sample and it seemed to turn into a western with the same magic in it, so I thought, nah...


"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Chimpy
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Reply #6436 on: September 27, 2018, 05:56:03 PM

Goddamn it people, don't do this to me.

I read a sample and it seemed to turn into a western with the same magic in it, so I thought, nah...



Have you read Modesitt's Imager stuff?

It is a lot like that.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Reg
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Reply #6437 on: September 27, 2018, 08:50:19 PM

Goddamn it people, don't do this to me.

I read a sample and it seemed to turn into a western with the same magic in it, so I thought, nah...



There are some cowboy parts to it but most of the story is in the big city. The magic system is basically the same except that there are no mistborn anymore and many new metals and alloys have been discovered. Most people have none or maybe one power. The lucky few have two and combinations can be very interesting. Old fashioned mistborn would be way overpowered in the more modern world.
Wasted
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Reply #6438 on: September 28, 2018, 10:09:10 AM

I forced my way through the first Mistborn trilogy but by the end was really hating it.  He is such a mechanical, humourless writer.  Good on detail but almost insultingly repetitive with his padding.
Reg
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Reply #6439 on: September 28, 2018, 10:47:21 AM

I admit I'm a Brandon Sanderson fan boy but I'll also admit that the first Mistborn trilogy wasn't his best.  I've enjoyed everything else he's written though. Even his 1,000 page epics like Way of Kings.
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