Something up with UO & Mythic

[WindupAtheist]

Did they ever add collision detection?  If so, I say we hold him to his word and make him play it!

[Johny Cee]

I hate to invoke the Bruce chart again, but it shows DAoC taking it in the ass in terms of subs, presumably due to WoW.  (Which I find plausible.)  Between that and having a high-profile project in development, I have to wonder if they sold to EA because they really needed money.  And not just to make hats out of.

DAoC took a big hit between WoW and bad ToA feedback, yah.  Mythic still has upwards of 100,000 subscribers by even the most conservative estimates.

100,000 x $15 x 12 months + $20 x 100,000 (yearly expansion) = ~$20 million yearly revenues  (Conservative,  I'd put it closer to 150,000 subscribers for $30 million revenue)

180 employees (the number I remember from press releases) x $40k (average salary across company, pulled from my ass) = ~$7 million salaries

They still should have quite a bit of gross profit for overhead.

DAoC should be wildly profitable for them, since they likely more than recouped any dev costs in the first 4.5 years.  The problem is 3 years down the road.  Say development bogs down, WAR is a flop, whatever.  DAoC will continue to age and bleed subscribers to new games or exhaustion.

Then they'd start to be in real trouble.

Even pretty successful independent small studies (read 1-3 projects in the works) are at most one or two big meh/flop games from tanking.  The investors and owners are more than willing to sell out and not risk their initial capital.

[Krakrok]

Presumably you mean "nothing but a pre-Trammel server" because Fellator was a roaring success when all the sheep left the wolves behind, wasn't it?

Arguably EVE's 130k subs are all wolves or maybe just stupid enough to get owned and keep on trucking. Unknown what percentage of people live in the guard zone vs. the free for all area though.

[Merusk]

Not unknown, the devs talked about it at least a few times last year, because Jitta and such were so crowded they were crashing.  This lead the devs to move all the L4 agents into lowsec space, to try and spread the population, AND get more people involved in PvP Something like 2/3 of the account base hangs out in Empire space.  I'll leave it up to you to question how many of those are simply "empire alts" for manufacturing or AFK mining.  Given the numbers you see in highspace vs lowspace, I don't think it's a lot.

[WindupAtheist]

I don't know what an L4 agent is, but I'm quite familiar with the old "Uh oh, they're not PVPing! Let's make them!" routine.

[Slayerik]

I don't know what an L4 agent is, but I'm quite familiar with the old "Uh oh, they're not PVPing! Let's make them!" routine.

There is no help for WUA, he will always be a sheep. He just likes having his fence instead of free roaming the hills where any animal can just roll up and WTFpwn him.

[Reg]

Do you have a chart of some kind to prove that claim about WUA?

[WindupAtheist]

I don't know what an L4 agent is, but I'm quite familiar with the old "Uh oh, they're not PVPing! Let's make them!" routine.

There is no help for WUA, he will always be a sheep. He just likes having his fence instead of free roaming the hills where any animal can just roll up and WTFpwn him.

I just hate this Kosteresque attitude of "They're not playing this game like I think they should!  Well I can fix that!"  If you want to get your carebears interested in PVP, give them "battlegrounds" or a low-risk/low-reward "combat simulator" to get them to try it for the first time.  Then once they've tried it and have some idea of what to expect, give out some optional but well-paying PVE missions that involve PVP territory.  But don't just relocate all the sheep-food into wolf country and expect them to go "Wow, that was rad!" when they get pwned.  UO has been proving the futility of that approach for years.

[Sparky]

I don't know what an L4 agent is, but I'm quite familiar with the old "Uh oh, they're not PVPing! Let's make them!" routine.

Level 4 agents give the best missions in the game.  They weren't all moved out of secure space, just out of the trade hubs so they wouldn't always have 300 people in system constantly spawning missions and creating hellish lag.  Most people still grind level 4 missions with the space-cops watching their backs.

[Broughden]

Most people still grind level 4 missions with the space-cops watching their backs.

[sinij]

I don't see how this can hurt UO, after all generations of talantless hacks did not managed to kill it entirely and at this point regardless of what you do to it you can only improve.

[sinij]

Edit: Or they're working on UO2/X or whatthefuckever.

AHAHA. UO2/X Attack of The Can.

[sinij]

Classic UO server pre-trammel.

Presumably you mean "nothing but a pre-Trammel server" because Fellator was a roaring success when all the sheep left the wolves behind, wasn't it?

I don't understand people like you. Are you heavily into masochism, do you put your balls into vise and turn until you pass out for shit and giggles? Did we not go through this topic many, many times before?

Edit: For WUA - Trammel killed UO, it was the worst thing to happen to it.

[WindupAtheist]

[Johny Cee]

Greatest. Chart. Ever.

[Xanthippe]

I never played UO.  I have heard that Trammel killed UO.

Can someone please explain this to me? 

What was so great about UO pre-Trammel and what was so awful about UO after Trammel such that people today still mourn?

[HRose]

What was so great about UO pre-Trammel and what was so awful about UO after Trammel such that people today still mourn?

Unrestrained griefing of veteran players over noobs.

The world was packed with preys for a small number of predators.

[Mi_Tes]

My view on Mythic.  They were thinking ahead with DAoC, and after the money was rolling in got lazy thinking they could repeat the DAoC magic with "Rome in Space".  By putting all their eggs in the Imperator basket and not realizing until way to late that it was a dog, they lost the momentum they had.  In the mean time, they didn't focus on DAoC and got way behind where MMORPG's were going, and trying to catch up only made the subscriptions slide even more (because they were no longer thinking how can we make DAoC better, but how can we be like WOW).  I am sure at least a few people made a shitload of money on the deal, but by selling to EA, they guarantee a drowned DAoC baby.  

[Signe]

Good Grief, Mi Ties, you're back!  Good timing, too.  I was just about to file a missing gamer report.     You must have extra special sooper dooper busy the past few months! 

Oh, and I agree.  Some probably made a ton of money but those who didn't and are still there might have boring, crappy jobs now.  I hope not, maybe they'll tell us!

[Mi_Tes]

Good Grief, Mi Ties, you're back!  Good timing, too.  I was just about to file a missing gamer report.     You must have extra special sooper dooper busy the past few months! 

Oh, and I agree.  Some probably made a ton of money but those who didn't and are still there might have boring, crappy jobs now.  I hope not, maybe they'll tell us!

I can't imagine it will be much different than others who have talked about their EA days, but you never know. 

Nice to be back!  Fingers crossed that work doesn't drag me to hell again.

[WindupAtheist]

I never played UO.  I have heard that Trammel killed UO.

Can someone please explain this to me? 

What was so great about UO pre-Trammel and what was so awful about UO after Trammel such that people today still mourn?

Originally UO allowed unrestricted PVP literally everywhere outside of the cities, which led to a big PK problem, which led to unacceptably high subscriber turnover.  So the devs tried some social engineering and some other penalties to slow it down, then eventually threw in the towel and simply added a second landmass where PVP was by consent only.

This landmass was called Trammel, and roughly 4 out of every 5 players flocked there to stay.  That was about six years ago, and to this day a certain contingent haunts messageboards like this, insisting that there was never a PK problem, that Trammel "ruined" the game, and that everyone hated it even though they promptly abandoned the original PVP+ land to go there.  You couldn't have missed the thirty-page uberthread on this topic, could you?  The one where I got that chart?

[Arthur_Parker]

Hey it's not that difficult to follow, approx 10% of players like some sort of FFA system, UO pre trammel, AC1 Darktide, Shadowbane (if it wasn't written in basic) & EVE. 

By publishing trammel on all shards they removed the 90% of the population who didn't like FFA from Felucca. Those who just wanted to prey on the weak had less victims so they quit or moved to Trammel, the few remaining players were scattered across all servers and it's not much fun playing in an empty world, so they quit or moved as well. 

There is a limited market for FFA, a pre trammel uo shard would hold some attraction to me and others, doubt I'd play it though, as I'm not fucking crazy enough to play an online game from the 1990's.

[Wolf]

The Charts are back! All praise Their prophet WUA!

All Hail the holy Charts

[Xanthippe]

This landmass was called Trammel, and roughly 4 out of every 5 players flocked there to stay.  That was about six years ago, and to this day a certain contingent haunts messageboards like this, insisting that there was never a PK problem, that Trammel "ruined" the game, and that everyone hated it even though they promptly abandoned the original PVP+ land to go there.  You couldn't have missed the thirty-page uberthread on this topic, could you?  The one where I got that chart?

I don't read 30 page threads.  Or even 20 page threads.  Because they often end up being between 4 or 5 people and consist of a lot of  which is usually only of interest to those 4 or 5 people after about page 6.

Consensual pvp is fine, as long as you start out that way, but I can certainly see why people might be upset when they start out playing a FFA game that becomes a consensual game.  People don't like the rules changed midstream.

[WindupAtheist]

You should have read this particular uberthread, if only to see Lum take off the gloves and return to form.  I've never seen a redname flame someone into oblivion like that.  Ah well.

Anyway, as to the original topic of this thread, there's a rumor that "a whole team" of Mythic people are being transferred over to work on UO.  Take it for what it's worth (namely nothing) but it falls into line with Darkscribe's comment that their plans for UO are at least going to stay the same, and may well get more ambitious.

So, good news if true.  If you play UO, it's heartening to see that EA isn't giving up on it.  If you don't play UO, it's still fun to see Mythic punished for selling out by having to work on it.

Please, dear sweet Flying Spaghetti Monster, let their plans include a proper overhaul and a decent looking and efficiently operating 3D client.  It's already got a skill-based system and the best housing around.  With some elbow grease and some shiny it could become relevant again as more than just a nostalgia relic and refuge for ding-haters.

[sinij]

I declare this thread ritually unclean. It was desecrated by filthy carebears. We will have to sacrifice virgins again.

[WindupAtheist]

We'll start with you.

Anyway, the guy who posted the "Someone at Mythic says they're moving guys to UO" thread came back and edited his posts away a couple hours later.  The thread and replies are there, just his messages were edited into emptiness.  Make of that what you will.

[Raph]

I just hate this Kosteresque attitude of "They're not playing this game like I think they should!  Well I can fix that!"  If you want to get your carebears interested in PVP, give them "battlegrounds" or a low-risk/low-reward "combat simulator" to get them to try it for the first time.  Then once they've tried it and have some idea of what to expect, give out some optional but well-paying PVE missions that involve PVP territory.  But don't just relocate all the sheep-food into wolf country and expect them to go "Wow, that was rad!" when they get pwned.  UO has been proving the futility of that approach for years.

Not that I haven't been guilty of what you accuse me of, because I certainly have -- but I must point out that I disliked the whole Trammel/Felucca concept, and it wasn't implemented until I left the team.

[HaemishM]

Not that I haven't been guilty of what you accuse me of, because I certainly have -- but I must point out that I disliked the whole Trammel/Felucca concept, and it wasn't implemented until I left the team.

Translation: I didn't kill her, I just held her down. 

I kid, I kid!

[sinij]

Trammel is forever a dirty word. Quickly someone post a graph.

[Der Helm]

Trammel is forever a dirty word. Quickly someone post a graph.