NCSoft and the Online Gaming World at its knees

[Big Gulp]

I'm pretty sure BG knew that. :)

Nope, but it couldn't have fallen any more cleanly into my hands!   

[Yoru]

We want... information.

[Strazos]

The spice must flow, what?

Heh.

[Engels]

You guys are being too mean. L2 brought us improved boobs. As is readily apparent today.

[Strazos]

GW had nice boobs as well.

[WindupAtheist]

WUA Subliminal Vision(tm) on demand!  I'm trimming the original out, it's too damned much text.

Below is an article every single gaming site and gaming magazine around the world doesn't understand.  How bad is our article?  You won't stand for this!

Hello, I'm here to farm in-game currency under everyone's noses.  MMO's are ruining real lives.  It's an addiction, it's a disease, and NCSOFT is the largest sources of this plague, MMO's.

The following is a letter that was sent to Lineage players.  "You are detrimental to the world."  Kill these NCSoft customers to have fun.  One of the major selling points this game is to stay up 24hrs a day 7 days a week to camp raid boss spawns.  Real life, as its written all over your companies EULA, is against the rules.

All these issues are well known though so there is almost no point in this letter.  People at NCSoft have tried to step up and do the professional thing and look out for their true and loyal customers, 5 Italian magazines.  The world will end if NCSOFT continue to steam roll into a huge multi-billion dollar industry!

Below is the site that our community goes to for discussing all Blizzard franchises.  See the financial fortune that can be made?  We do!  Destroy every MMO any company tries to create!!!

Thank you

[Slyfeind]

5.  We're gamers just like you.

I assure you that you are not gamers like us.

If you haven't seen what we've seen, then I envy you.

Words cannot express the Cthulhu-esque shitstorms we have seen.

[Falconeer]

And that's my happy face for the day!

Noooooo Soln!! You changed your avatar!! I want Number 6 back!!! 

[Falconeer]

I'm not saying Lineage 2 is the greatest MMO out there.  I'll say imo, that it's the hardest one to grind/gear/build-up in.

It's not the hardest, just the longest. Your logic it's typical troll logic: twist concepts until they vanish leaving only bad smell behind.

I couldn't read your opening post cause:

1) It's bad written
2) It doesn't tell anything new, and from the few lines I read it isn't interesting at all. We all knew about it. Actually, we all know BETTER about it.

To sum up, the only thing you achieved coming here is to remember us that "they (you) come out of the fucking walls!"
Better secure the perimeter before night comes. As they mostly come out at night. Mostly.

Oh, and on a side note: you keep talking about freedom of speech, respectful opinions. I could argue that you disrespected lots of people here just posting that stuff without even caring to know where you were posting and who were your guests. Just assuming that your pile of crabs could be of any use for the people here is disrespectful enough, as you could have known better just being a nice lurker for a while.

[schild]

I couldn't read your opening post cause:

1) It's bad written
2) It doesn't tell anything new, and from the few lines I read it isn't interesting at all. We all knew about it. Actually, we all know BETTER about it.

[Mesozoic]

The "article's" complaints all seem to boil down to flaws in the L2 game design.  If you weren't such a snob about other games, you might have learned the value of instancing for high-level content. 

[Merusk]

If he weren't such a knob, he'd also have realized that RMT isn't unique to L2, nor did it originate there. In addition, he'd also have bothered to listen to the people telling him this discussion's been going on for nearly a decade now.

While we're wishing, however, I'd like this saturday's lotto numbers.

[Broughden]

While we're wishing, however, I'd like this saturday's lotto numbers.

4 8 15 16 23 42

[edlavallee]

Lineage 2 - IGE = Lnea 2.

Fixed it for you.

Priceless and worth the pages to get there. Thx

[Soln]

And that's my happy face for the day!

Noooooo Soln!! You changed your avatar!! I want Number 6 back!!! 

there, order restored

BTW that wasn't #6, but John Drake, Dangerman (AKA Sekret Agent Man)

that's a good grief title, come to think of it

[Soln]

Schild should make a Submission Guidelines sticky for new entrants to post their essays to.  And within in it have a support@f13.net that goes to Jack Thompson.  Or Smed.  Or someone in Korea.  Or anyone who wouldn't get it.

[Falconeer]

BTW that wasn't #6, but John Drake, Dangerman (AKA Sekret Agent Man)

I know it's unfair to him, but how can you think of McGoohan as anything else but Number Six?
I know Drake came first, but still!! :) (not to mention the fact that Number Six is "probably" John Drake after all...)

By the way, can't believe no one ever made a Prisoner videogame. Especially in the 80s, when they used to make games from things like the Rocky Horror Picture Show or Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Could it be that I just can't recall, but they actually did it?

[Azazel]

Being bashed, flamed, thrown, fucked, etc etc is all fine to me I'm used to it.   Remember I'm from Lineage 2 ^^

We don't want to hear about your Rough Sex fetish here.

Also, they're CRUMPETS

You guys are posting about me on the sekret forums, aren't you? 

I had access to the secret forums once. For a day. Then it got taken away. 

[Yegolev]

Don't be jealous of what I do for a living

Ho ho!  IT Security, how I desire to be included amongst your illustrious ranks.

[Yegolev]

No its     WUA> Broughden > Cheddar> Diatress

Well, ironically enough, Cheddar used RMT to buy his way out of that heritage with his F13 license plate.  Plus, you left out Poseidon.

[damijin]

Hi there, grind-haters.

I'd just like to pop in, mostly to apologize for the idiocy you have been exposed to through the Lineage 2 community. Yes, this is an issue that the Bartz server is taking very seriously. I do not play there. To be honest, however, it is a game design issue. I know most of you hate L2, and I've seen a few people mention instancing. This would solve the problem, to some degree. However, Lineage 2 is designed as a highly political game. Most of us do not play for grind, or even the mediocre-at-best PvP. We play for the politics. I do not see L2 as a bad game politically, it is about establishing power through friends and enemies by conquering castles and extreme raids which can require around 150 people or more.

For this reason, instancing does not sit well in Lineage 2. It is difficult to have a political battle over a raid that everyone can do. For this same reason, however, farmers have much more power in this game than in other games. Much of the community puts the blame on NCSoft. This may be somewhat accurate, however, I would not expect them to act any differently. Although L2's actual playerbase has gone down since release, it's active accounts have gone up significantly. This is because of the majority of players owning multiple accounts, and farmers who run 3 to 10 groups (9 characters per group) on different servers. This is all despite the fact that over 30,000 accounts have been banned to date (the total subscription numbers do not exceed much above 100k I believe, so this is significant). Basically, NCSoft NA is making money on this unlike many of their failed projects.

What it really comes down to is that Lineage 2 was a well designed game for hardcore players who enjoy politics. What ended up happening is that Lineage 2 was the PERFECT game for farming, and continues to be so. In fact, you can blame most of todays farming problems on the industry that the Lineage brand has essentially created. So all in all, I feel Lineage 2 was a pretty good idea, however it cannot be saved at this point and it is not the GMs fault. The design supports farmers, and if you're going to play you have to deal with that.

(sorry again for my community being dumb.)

[Xilren's Twin]

What it really comes down to is that Lineage 2 was a well designed game for hardcore players who enjoy politics. What ended up happening is that Lineage 2 was the PERFECT game for farming, and continues to be so. In fact, you can blame most of todays farming problems on the industry that the Lineage brand has essentially created. So all in all, I feel Lineage 2 was a pretty good idea, however it cannot be saved at this point and it is not the GMs fault. The design supports farmers, and if you're going to play you have to deal with that.

Thank you, for not only understanding the issue but also being able to type coherently. :)

Your last line sums while the original post to this thread was so pointless.  Well done.

Xilren 

[damijin]

What it really comes down to is that Lineage 2 was a well designed game for hardcore players who enjoy politics. What ended up happening is that Lineage 2 was the PERFECT game for farming, and continues to be so. In fact, you can blame most of todays farming problems on the industry that the Lineage brand has essentially created. So all in all, I feel Lineage 2 was a pretty good idea, however it cannot be saved at this point and it is not the GMs fault. The design supports farmers, and if you're going to play you have to deal with that.

Thank you, for not only understanding the issue but also being able to type coherently. :)

Your last line sums while the original post to this thread was so pointless.  Well done.

Xilren 

nPee m8 i'M back 2 botcamp now lolz i gotta train up sum grind skilLz cuz archlord is comming out soon

[Engels]

Oi veh, will you stop with the 'L2 is for hardcore gamers' crap already! Grinding interminably doesn't make you hardcore, it makes you stupid. Back in the day of yesteryear when UO and EQ were the only viable games on the market, we had no other recourse but to grind. There were no other options. Someone somewhere along the line decided that the first person with nothing better to do but to reach level 50 fast by spawn camping was hardcore. This took hold in the minds of adolescents around the globe, and it seems that a big portion of them ran off to L2.

We have choices now. You can go full on PVP in many games, without the mind numbing tedium that L2 requires. A few dorky westerners are trying to compete against sweat-shop Asian consortiums in a game that for all intents and purposes is designed for grueling grind work in the first place. Move on. Or stay. But for the love of god do not complain about the game being broken.

Lastly, do not be surprised if the entire game is handed over to those who earn a living off the backs of morons like you who keep paying for L2.

To give you an analogy of some sorts; back in the day, we typed everything with typewriters. Then word processing came along. Everyone switched. Noone considers those who keep using a typewriter 'hardcore', just misguided luddites. Misguided rich luddites, by most asian standards. Do not be surprised if an entire economy arises around your stubborn refusal to admit that your grind doesn't mean anything to anyone anymore.

[HaemishM]

I came here thinking you all were into mmo gaming, and didn't want the same to happen to your community or to the next game you move to.  

I would link you to a web site that I write for with a heavy slant towards gaming and MMOG gaming in particular, but I've been told not to link to specific stories on my own web site. Instead, I'll just point you downwards.

If you can't figure out that you don't even have a clue what community or individuals you are talking about, why should anyone bother listening to you about whatever it is you are trying to say?

[Hoax]

Hi there, grind-haters.

Welcome to f13, we're sorry your community is so stupid also.  While I can understand the joy of a "political" game, I just can't fathom how anyone can stand the grind.  My friend told me sieges were really really cool and I would love to see one but he used a bot to get to the endgame so I'm not sure that counts.

Even on a free-shard L2 server with x5 exp I was amazed at how slow leveling got, and sweet god the job change quest?  That thing could cockblock every frat boy in the midwest by itself.

Anyway, thanks for proving that some people can actually not be fucktards when they first post on a bbs.  You did much better then I.

[WayAbvPar]

What it really comes down to is that Lineage 2 was a well designed game for hardcore players who enjoy politics. What ended up happening is that Lineage 2 was the PERFECT game for farming, and continues to be so. In fact, you can blame most of todays farming problems on the industry that the Lineage brand has essentially created. So all in all, I feel Lineage 2 was a pretty good idea, however it cannot be saved at this point and it is not the GMs fault. The design supports farmers, and if you're going to play you have to deal with that.

Thank you, for not only understanding the issue but also being able to type coherently. :)

Your last line sums while the original post to this thread was so pointless.  Well done.

Xilren 

nPee m8 i'M back 2 botcamp now lolz i gotta train up sum grind skilLz cuz archlord is comming out soon

This kid I like.

[damijin]

Most people who play L2 started it the summer that it came out. I suspect many were unemployed students like myself (at the time), who simply had an entire summer to blow on the grind.

Since then, most new players will rely on purchased adena or automation programs to catch up to the rest of the players. I would say around 75% of my alliance (3 clans) have botted at some point. Myself included. Recently, this has included some people who had been against automation and EULA-breaking for the longest time. Finally, they have cracked and realized that, this too is just something you have to deal with if you're going to play Lineage 2.

It's not a perfect game by any means. Not even good, I would say. But my friends play it, so I'll play with them until they find something besides WoW. I've considered EvE, but just like L2, I think EvE is impossibly hard to start at this point without cheating your ass off.

[Chenghiz]

Actually it's pretty easy to get started in EVE, especially if you know a few people. What's a lot of money to a noobie is pocket change to a vet so you can get on your feet and fighting very quickly.

[Strazos]

I'm not aware of anyone in the F13 corp who has cheated. I think only 1 or 2 people have resorted to buying ISK with gametime codes, and that's sanctioned by CCP (the developer).

Even though Eve sort of has a grind, a lot of it goes on while you're offline.

[damijin]

Well all I know is that L2 has turned me into a conflicted person. It's hard to hate everything that is wrong with this genre when all of your closest friends endorse it. 

[Llava]

Good post, damijin.

This is why I don't like to say things like "You're retarded if you play Lineage 2" because you clearly are not retarded, you just enjoy different aspects of MMGs than we do.

I always wonder how game communities evolve into the monsters they eventually become.  Guild Wars, for instance, is one of the most strategically advanced MMGs out there, and yet its community is full of total idiots.  And yet a game like City of Heroes offers little strategy, and a lot of mindless superhero fun, but it has one of the better communities I've seen spring up in a MMG.

We will not mention the community of WoW in this post.

[Signe]

Don't worry, Damijin.  I played the original Lineage for about a year and nearly got to level 50 before I quit.  I'm surprised I still have vital signs.

[HaemishM]

I always wonder how game communities evolve into the monsters they eventually become. 

Incest.

[Rhonstet]

I always wonder how game communities evolve into the monsters they eventually become.

Incest.

Devs play the part of Big Daddy, turning the customers out.