DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live

[eldaec]

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1549.shtml for the full notes.

- 8x increase in xp for rvr.
- Much more complicated keep upgrade schema.
- Frontiers all joined up
- Battlegrounds starting at level 1.
- Group sidekicking.
- RA rejig - mostly favouring lower power - short cool down powers, instead of long timered 'I win' buttons.
- Supply line teleportation system - intended to encourage a 'front line' to form.
- SI engine upgraded to ToA engine regardless of whether you have ToA.
- Relic changes designed to prevent raids being entirely about surprise.
- gtaoe/pbaoe effects no longer pass through walls.
- Nothing to prevent buffbotting. :(

Anyone still playing and able to comment on how the above works?

[Soukyan]

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1549.shtml for the full notes.

- 8x increase in xp for rvr.
- Much more complicated keep upgrade schema.
- Frontiers all joined up
- Battlegrounds starting at level 1.
- Group sidekicking.
- RA rejig - mostly favouring lower power - short cool down powers, instead of long timered 'I win' buttons.
- Supply line teleportation system - intended to encourage a 'front line' to form.
- SI engine upgraded to ToA engine regardless of whether you have ToA.
- Relic changes designed to prevent raids being entirely about surprise.
- gtaoe/pbaoe effects no longer pass through walls.
- Nothing to prevent buffbotting. :(

Anyone still playing and able to comment on how the above works?

I didn't do the new battlegrounds when I was checking it out on test server, but I did do regular RvR on Pendragon. The supply line/teleportation system works great. It also makes it more interesting in terms of travel. With a supply line, you can get back into the RvR action in much less time than in the past when you had to wait for ports. Now, you don't port to frontiers, you zone into yours and then either teleport via supply line to the fort you need to go to (yours or enemy's) or if there is no supply chain, you run which can take longer as there is an ocean between the realms now.

You can attack boat to boat in RvR which I thought was very cool, but it's no quite so piratical in that you have cannons or anything. That would be cool, but I digress.

The largest keep I saw was a level 3. It was fucking huge. I cannot imagine the scale of a level 10 keep, or even imagine that anyone will get one any time soon.

Seige weaponry is now an absolute must. You cannot take keeps without them. Each keep has 3 guard towers than can be taken as well which provide rally points for the attackers.

Seiges were lasting on the order of 45 minutes to several hours when I was testing. The initial portion of which involved mostly trading of fire with seige weapons on both sides.

The walls of keeps of course can be knocked down now so you don't have to use just one door to try to get in now. Wherever you can knock a hole, you can enter.

Repairs can only be made to a portion of the keep that is not under direct fire. If you try to repair a wall and it gets hit in the middle of the repair, the repair fails. So no more repairing while under direct attack. This is a good thing.

DoTs can no longer be cast on doors to exploit the AE nature of some of them.

Didn't notice a graphics difference as I was already playing with the ToZ expansion, but the ToA graphics are quite nice and the new fort graphics are well done and are much better laid out as well.

Overall, they did a great job on the expansion. I haven't had the opportunity to check out the "sidekick" system as the character I tested with was already level 50. Also, I didn't notice a huge experience difference in RvR, but again, my character is already level 50. I think that experience difference will impact the battelgrounds more anyhow. Also, it says 8x more than they were previously awarded for killing an enemy in RvR. It wasn't much before, but the 8x increase is pretty decent considering it will allow people to further their character while enjoying the fun aspect of the game.

The RA redo is pretty nice as well. This didn't impact me a whole lot as a Healer, but I noticed that I wasn't getting wtfpwned by "I win" buttons during testing. Master Levels still seem to play a large role in RvR though. Luckily a lot of the ML powers are static AE so a lot of people can benefit from them (Power Fonts, Regen Fonts, etc.), but they are still almost a necessity now in RvR and seiges.

Anyhow, those are just some of my thoughts from testing it over the past several weeks.

[Zephyr]

You can attack boat to boat in RvR which I thought was very cool, but it's no quite so piratical in that you have cannons or anything. That would be cool, but I digress.

Scout Boat - Requires at least one person to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 8.
Galleon - Requires at least two people to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 16. The galleon has two siege hookpoints.
Warship - Requires at least four people to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 32. The warship has four siege hookpoints.

Not quite cannons, but it is still siege equipment on boats.  :)

[Glamdring]

I always liked DAOC except for the high end level grind.  Does this do anything to alleviate that aspect of the game?  Is it still just as much of a pain in the ass to be competitive in RvR?

[Soukyan]

You can attack boat to boat in RvR which I thought was very cool, but it's no quite so piratical in that you have cannons or anything. That would be cool, but I digress.

Scout Boat - Requires at least one person to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 8.
Galleon - Requires at least two people to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 16. The galleon has two siege hookpoints.
Warship - Requires at least four people to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 32. The warship has four siege hookpoints.

Not quite cannons, but it is still siege equipment on boats.  :)

Fucking awesome! I did not realize that. Close enough for me.

And yes, Glamdring, it's still a bit of a pain to compete. To be fair, you don't really need any Master Levels because there are enough people out there with multiple Master Levels and since their abilities affect everyone within range, it's fairly easy to gain the benefits without having to catass for them yourself. On the other hand, you still get rolled unless you're 50 and have spellcrafted armor (or some really nice ToA drops). Also, realm rank 5 is the place to be these days as they got rid of all the class specific realm abilities and made new class specific ones that you get for free when you obtain realm rank 5. There are, of course, a couple with the potential to be new "I win" buttons but we shall see how those play out. So yes, level 50 with SC armor and (preferably) realm rank 5 is the place to be these days. There's still a fairly huge barrier to entry for new players in terms of time commitment. However, the fact that you can RvR starting at level one now (in battelgrounds of course) allows for people to get right into the fun gameplay of their RvR system. And they now have battlegrounds that go all the way up to 44 as well (guess they finally realized that the boredom factor from level 36-45 was wretched enough to warrant giving those people some action too. Of course, those new battlegrounds could also be boring if you have no enemies to fight at a given time, so your best bet is to make sure you jump on the largest population server you can find. At least then you're always guaranteed some action.

Short version: Nothing has been put in to alleviate the high level grind, but there's a lot more RvR oriented fun stuff to at least distract you from it for a bit.

[Numtini]

Call me when they get rid of buffbots.

[Sable Blaze]

They ever fix the defensive classes? The fact that shields never did a damned thing in RvR always annoyed me to no end.

I never cared for the armor model either (was stupid), but I suppose you have to make some gamey additions here for balance.

I also wonder how this will play out on Gaheris.

[Zephyr]

I have only recently gotten around to sorting out my SC suit.  Of course I die faster than others, but I still have a good time.  With pbae not going through walls anymore, I will really need those resists to survive the magic barrage while the tanks bodyguard me.  

I haven't had much of a chance to get into NF yet.  Most of this morning was spent grabbing the rare artifacts for guildies while everyone was out in the frontiers.  :P

[kaid]

That sounds very good I just wish I had it in me to do the level up thing because that kind of pvp appeals to me. My problem has always been the leveling up process in DAOC bores the piss out of me. Not sure what it is but I always found it really kinda blah and I am a guy who dosn't really mind the treadmill.


Kaid

[HaemishM]

Jeebus, that almost makes me want to play again. The fact that I could start a new character and RVR from level 1, provided of course there was anyone to RVR with, tempts me with the taste of nuts and honey. Especially considering that you get 8x the exp. from RVR now.

I may actually have the ability to play without reupping, as my fiancee's little brother has an account.

I will be strong.

/mumbles "The power of PVP compels me... the power of PVP compels me..."

[eldaec]

Jeebus, that almost makes me want to play again. The fact that I could start a new character and RVR from level 1, provided of course there was anyone to RVR with, tempts me with the taste of nuts and honey. Especially considering that you get 8x the exp. from RVR now.

Problem is, you typically kill yellows in rvr, purples in pve. That takes care of the 8x modifier straight away. Then you kill people at a rate I'd say must be about 10% that of the npc kill rate in pve, and you often share the kill with twice as many people.

25% of each level from taking the keep is nice - but again, before 1.70 you could gain about 90% of one level in every 5 by keep taking using the medal of valour system.

If you enjoy battleground play in it's own right this is, of course, irrelevant. But you could battleground to your heart's content using /level 20 before this patch (assuming you had a lv 50 somewhere). Also, without xp modifiers that approach pve levelling rate, it's likely that only the level 20-24 bg will have a workable population of enemies.

Could be worth a month's subs to try it out while the novelty is in effect ofc.

And when, exactly, was the last time most posters here managed to stay subbed to anything for more than a couple of months straight? ;)

[Furiously]

No - the problem is the zerg.

[Nebu]

I played this a little on Pendragon as a Hero and found that the melee classes have little to no role in keep sieges (unless you enjoy getting cast at and shot full of arrows while beating on a door).  Casters and the new FOTM archers with volley seem to be the trend.  Zerg for teh win will still exist, but with the keep fortification, melee classes are fast becoming RP cows for the ranged classes.  Sadly, I think this will be a recurring nightmare for any game employing pvp in which there are ranged and melee classes within the same game framework.  There's just no good way to balance them.  

As for buffbots, more accounts = more $$$.  Until Mythic loses more accounts than they gain in buffbots, there's no financial reason for them to really do anything about it.

[HRose]

There's too much to say about this patch from the design point of view but I'll dodge this part.

Anyway, levelling exclusively in PvP is not possible:

1- Not enough players to fight to cover all the ranges up to level 44 (and here is great the idea of instancing the BGs to make them completely server-undependent, so you balance the numbers and also always offer players to fight).

2- No way to earn equipment and money without a massive grind.

This means that the new BGs aren't at all an alternate advancement path but just a new toy to fiddle with for who is able to twink and min/max freely to own newbies.

Then I played on Merlin for about six hours yesterday. Festival of crashes, when I wasn't crashing I had around 12 seconds of delay. Plus a terrible framerate added to terrible memory leaks.

The first part (net lag and crashes) is just a temporary issue and I expect Mythic to fix it, the second is due to one of the most terrible engines on the market (well, at least if we don't consider Shadowbane).

Still, my experience has been *terrible* from the "fun" point of view and not considering the technical difficulties.

Basically 90% of those six hours has been about swaying in front of a keep to wait I don't know who or what. 8% was about riding on hyperlagged bugged boats. 1% running freely in enemy territory till a random tower to attack. And the last 1% about getting zerged by 80+ enemy players (and here the client dies due to lag and the server crashes).

Now I'll have to see how this changes with the days but I'm not sure if I'll log in DAoC or continue to level my toon in WoW to see how's the PvP there.

[Morfiend]

I spent so much time grinding my Shadowblade up to level 50. Ugh it was horrible. But that carrot of RVR kept me going. I was now level 50, and I had almosta full set of SCed armor. I was a can of asswhooping just waiting to be unleashed on the RVR world. Seriously, not two days later, they nerfed Shadowblades so badly, 70% of them quit.

This was the last straw for me. I dont think I can EVER bring myself to play another game by Mythic.

[NiX]

If anyone wants to restart (on lancelot) I'll PL you with my Necro. One time deal for F13 members only!

I'll PL you Haemish if you let me hug you.

[Soukyan]

His experience on patch day

In defense of Mythic, it was patch day of the biggest free expansion yet. The engine runs just fine. They may not have very stable patch days, but they are still better than EQ ever was at it. Try NF again in about a week when the excitement has died down and the patch server has recovered. The lag you were getting was their bandwidth getting destroyed by all the people patching. Boats are just fine in the new frontiers and if you were standing around with your thumb up your ass, you should have been setting up some seige equipment and firing at the keep you were supposed to be taking. I know it might seem like a crazy idea, but that's one way to contribute as a melee player. And then once the wall is knocked down, you can steamroll in and lay some smack down. Did you expect Mythic to just hand you some casters to kill on a platter? I would think players would enjoy a little strategy in a game. It can make for some fun.

They've got their RvR down. I just can't stand it because leveling in that game is detestable to me. I can't figure out why. I think it's just a matter of having burned out and not being able to recapture that drive to level. *shrug* That aside, they did a fine job on the New Frontiers expansion.

[HRose]

I'm writing this while I wait to log in Merlin since it died again.

Boat code is ok? On my server players joke about them all the time:
- Why my boat is flying?
- Because it drank a Red Bull.

It was and still is the most bugged thing added in the game. Laggy boats melting together, flying in the sky and moving awkwardly and so on.

Then the client doesn't run ok here. Due to insane memory leaks after some time I have less than 8 FPS with nothing on screen, imagine when there are two zergs and a huge keep along with various siege engines.

With no lag and solid FPS it could be really good. But it's like asking the same thing in Shadowbane.

I cannot play, in a week with no net lag I'll still have an unusable client.

[Soukyan]

I'm writing this while I wait to log in Merlin since it died again.

Boat code is ok? On my server players joke about them all the time:
- Why my boat is flying?
- Because it drank a Red Bull.

It was and still is the most bugged thing added in the game. Laggy boats melting together, flying in the sky and moving awkwardly and so on.

Then the client doesn't run ok here. Due to insane memory leaks after some time I have less than 8 FPS with nothing on screen, imagine when there are two zergs and a huge keep along with various siege engines.

With no lag and solid FPS it could be really good. But it's like asking the same thing in Shadowbane.

I cannot play, in a week with no net lag I'll still have an unusable client.

What are your system specs? I've been playing on Lancelot and Guinevere the past month or two and I'm not seeing those problems myself, even in large scale RvR. I've seen people bitch about the ToA client also, but it gives me the best performance of all the client versions released.

[Mjodthorri]

Heh, so many things to comment upon.

I always liked DAOC except for the high end level grind.  Does this do anything to alleviate that aspect of the game?  Is it still just as much of a pain in the ass to be competitive in RvR?

No, and more of a pain in the ass than before ToA, respectively, IMO. The high end level grind is at its worst starting at 45 and in my opinion extends to include much PvE in Atlantis. (I disagree with Soukyan on whether you need master levels to compete, but that's a separate essay, and may vary by server or possibly as a result of New Frontiers.) The new battlegrounds only extend to level 44 and the new quasi-sidekicking will only increase your level to 90% of the group leader's, i.e. a maximum of 45, so neither will impact the high end level grind.  (On the other hand, they will both reduce the low end level grind; on Pendragon I went from level 5 to level 7 in about an hour in the battlegrounds. Not powerlevelling, but it was fun gaming so no complaints.)  In theory you could try to level from 45 to 50 by frontier RvR, which would be more feasible for some classes than others.

The new battlegrounds probably aren't a big deal if you already have a 50, but they dramatically increase access to RvR if you don't. Also, the new rewards for battleground keep taking are much better than the old ones. Previously, you had to both participate in a keep capture and cap out realm points to get the old reward for the keep capture. I've done each thing on several different characters, but I've never done both on the same character. The new reward, you capture the keep and you get the reward. Simple, sweet, works. Further, under the old system there was no reason to try to capture the keep of one of the notoriously empty battlegrounds, because you would never find enough foes to cap out realm points. With the new system, an empty battleground is a fast quarter-level.

Buffbots. They've taken a couple of steps over the last month or two which... effected... buffbots:

- You can now move characters from an existing account to a new one (for a fee, of course.) So if you happened to have one account with DPS characters and buffing characters, you can now buy a new account and move the buffing characters to that account, rather than having to level new ones.

- Nothing to prevent buffbotting. :(

- An innovation with this patch is "/clientsleep", which allows you to run a DAoC instance without generating screen output, which greatly reduces the demands on your machine's hardware from, for example, running two instances of DAoC at once. Isn't Mythic thoughtful?

As for buffbots, more accounts = more $$$. Until Mythic loses more accounts than they gain in buffbots, there's no financial reason for them to really do anything about it.

It's even worse than that, I'm afraid. It's very easy for them to document how much money they get from (second accounts with very low bandwidth useage and no customer support calls). It's not nearly so easy for them to document how many people cancel because of bb's who wouldn't cancel otherwise, how many people might renew but don't because of bb's, or how many potential sales they lose because of bad word of mouth or absence of good word of mouth from people who are unhappy because of bb's.

A couple of RL friends of mine have spent, I estimate, $300 in 2004 on MMO's that I've recommended to them. Not a cent of that has gone to Mythic, but all Mythic sees is that noone's cancelled.

I just can't stand it because leveling in that game is detestable to me. I can't figure out why.

Well, levelling in DAoC is basically the PvE game from EverQuest, no?  After DAoC, I played Anarchy Online and City of Heroes, but I haven't played EQ. Let's look at some differences between these games' PvE.

- Pulling in DAoC is much easier than pulling in Anarchy Online/City of Heroes and, I presume, EQ. Difficult pulling means bad pulls which mean unexpected (and challenging) variety in play; easy pulling means very straightforward and repetitive play.

- Significant loot in (pre-ToA) DAoC is nonexistent, whereas Anarchy Online and City of Heroes have significant loot. (Significant loot in CoH includes enhancements and the xp awards for finishing some missions.)  Loot in DAoC (not counting ToA) is not normally used in its own right but is converted, one way or another, into cash. So the only goal of DAoC's PvE is to get xp, and the best way to do that is pulling large but safe mobs rapidly (death = downtime = poor xp/minute). In AO and presumably EQ, the prospect of good loot which will make your character better than other characters of similar or slightly higher level can make dangerous fights more advantageous than farming easy mobs.

- In DAoC-Hibernia (where I played) area crowd control is almost nonexistent, partly for spec reasons and partly because the effectiveness of PBAoE makes CC very ineffective for level grinding.

- I've heard people say that in EQ, exchanging class B for class A in your group can lead to a complete change in the group's strategy and the player's gaming experience. This is true in my experience in AO and CoH, too. But in DAoC-Hibernia, at least, you have a few support classes and a bunch of DPS/tanking classes, which for the most part play the same as each other in PvE (e.g. in PvE a nightshade is a hero with low DPS, low defence, and limited aggro management tools), and even when they do play differently (e.g. animists) they do so by making the other DPS classes basically bystanders.

Now, in fairness to Mythic, many of these issues are addressed in ToA PvE, but for the most part that happens after levelling is complete. So levelling in DAoC is essentially EQ/AO levelling with challenging pulling, loot, varied groups, and much CC removed. There's a reason your subconscious is telling you it's lame :).

[eldaec]

I played this a little on Pendragon as a Hero and found that the melee classes have little to no role in keep sieges (unless you enjoy getting cast at and shot full of arrows while beating on a door).

Even before NF this wasn't really true if you are playing organised guild rvr.

Melee classes should be operating siege machinery (as well as more passive roles hitting doors and guarding others).

Siege machinery has become more critical in this patch - though how much more is yet to be determined.

[Nebu]

Melee classes should be operating siege machinery (as well as more passive roles hitting doors and guarding others).

Yes, you are correct and this (imo) is NOT FUN.  Mythic will see many melee classes making new toons and/or cancelling in a few weeks after the new expansion comes into the game.  If I'm a Merc/Berz/BM I'd like to think that the whole purpose of my existence is to run toons through with a sword, not bash doors or run a siege engine.  

I don't know why I even bother posting this... we all know that the pvp system in DAoC is badly broken.  The only real positives I see from this expansion were finally fixing the "through wall" ae casting and limiting rp expenditures to force players to come up with a player concept rather than using template_x.  Likely it will resort to templates anyway once it is discovered how many of the new skills are broken/not worth the RP's.

As for me personally, many people back in the day made celtic spear weilding offensive heros to enjoy some offensive ability on the battlefield.  The new system has relegated the hero to a board toting, bodyguard that stands next to either a healer or a ranged player while waiting to donate rp's to some other relam's caster/archer/stealther.  

Ultimately, Mythic did me a favor... I now have $15 more a month to spend on something else.

[HaemishM]

Ok, so I'm fucking nuts. I installed the SI client from the download last night, downloaded the Frontiers stuff and made a new character on a server where I know absolutely no one. I'm playing on my future brother-in-law's account.

OMFG THIS GAME IS SO GODDAMN SLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!

Running is slow. Sprinting is slow. After the adrenaline rush of City of Heroes, I feel like I overdosed on goddamn qualudes. I got a rogue to level 3, in less than an hour and logged off because it was late. I plan on trying the level 1-4 battlegrounds tonight, and if nothing is kicking there, leveling up to 5 to become a scout and trying the higher battlegrounds.

Don't tell me scouts are gimped, don't give a fuck. I just wanted to make a character to stealth gank motherfuckers with pointy arrows. If I find the PVP in the battlegrounds isn't fun, I won't bother really trying to level anything.

After CoH, which has slow leveling after the first 15 levels, I'm not sure I can level in something that plays as slowly as DAoC.

[Nebu]

Haemish,

If you want to avoid total frustration, go to a server where you know someone.  When you hit the BG's you'll find people farming each other like mobs for exp and most of your opponents will be complete with twinked gear.  Granted, gear doesn't make a huge difference but as an archer having the best bow for your level and high end arrows will make all the difference.  

The game IS slow.  It's EQ slow without the variety of zones to whack foozles.  With friends you can at least run with bard/minstrel/skald speed.  For added pleasure, the levelling treadmill becomes most apparent at level 30.

[eldaec]

The speed thing is a problem pve,  or anywhere when you are travelling. I never found it an issue when actually engaged in pvp though - where if anything things are over too fast.

[eldaec]

If I'm a Merc/Berz/BM I'd like to think that the whole purpose of my existence is to run toons through with a sword, not bash doors or run a siege engine.

ok, I'll bite - what *should* a light tank be able to do in a siege if it isn't using a short bow, guarding ranged classes, operating machinery, bracing doors, killing guards, or breaking doors?

[Anonymous]

Obviously a light tank should be wtfpwning casters in two hits!  YAAAARGH!

[Nebu]

The speed thing is a problem pve,  or anywhere when you are travelling. I never found it an issue when actually engaged in pvp though - where if anything things are over too fast.

I agree completely.  In a heated battle it's often a matter of hearing the lovely sound of crowd control followed by instant death.

ok, I'll bite - what *should* a light tank be able to do in a siege if it isn't using a short bow, guarding ranged classes, operating machinery, bracing doors, killing guards, or breaking doors?

Light tanks get their utility in taking down opponents quickly in melee combat using high damage/weak defense templates.  I see no role for light tanks in seiges until the doors swing open.  I'm also starting to think that their only role may be relegated to sitting out of harm's way until the doors have been broken down and then rushing in to kill anything in their path.  The latter part would be fun, but the former seems pretty damn boring.

We're talking about a game here... I play games to have fun.  Sieges are not fun for melee classes unless you get some thrill from standing next to a caster/healer/archer, beating on a door, or operating a machine.  I'd prefer more options for open battlefield battles rather than the RvR becoming all about castle siege.  

I left DAoC for a number of reasons, one of which being the direction the game was taking and the complete lack of balance between many classes in RvR.  Granted, their attempts at balance were supposedly from a group vs. group vision rather than indivual players, but even the group dynamics have been distorted with Fronteirs.  

What class do you play?

[Soukyan]

The speed thing is a problem pve,  or anywhere when you are travelling. I never found it an issue when actually engaged in pvp though - where if anything things are over too fast.

I agree completely.  In a heated battle it's often a matter of hearing the lovely sound of crowd control followed by instant death.

ok, I'll bite - what *should* a light tank be able to do in a siege if it isn't using a short bow, guarding ranged classes, operating machinery, bracing doors, killing guards, or breaking doors?

Light tanks get their utility in taking down opponents quickly in melee combat using high damage/weak defense templates.  I see no role for light tanks in seiges until the doors swing open.  I'm also starting to think that their only role may be relegated to sitting out of harm's way until the doors have been broken down and then rushing in to kill anything in their path.  The latter part would be fun, but the former seems pretty damn boring.

We're talking about a game here... I play games to have fun.  Sieges are not fun for melee classes unless you get some thrill from standing next to a caster/healer/archer, beating on a door, or operating a machine.  I'd prefer more options for open battlefield battles rather than the RvR becoming all about castle siege.  

I left DAoC for a number of reasons, one of which being the direction the game was taking and the complete lack of balance between many classes in RvR.  Granted, their attempts at balance were supposedly from a group vs. group vision rather than indivual players, but even the group dynamics have been distorted with Fronteirs.  

What class do you play?

Historically, a light tank was doing one of those aforementioned things during a seige. But mostly, infantry were getting mowed down by archers and when the doors/walls finally fell, then the guess in the back line, or those smart enough to go turtle, got to go in and hack archers up with their swords.

Now, I realize that historically, they didn't have wizards hurling fireballs either, but they did have fire arrows, boiling oil (very cool new feature of NF IMO), ladders, seige engines, etc. Mythic is trying to recreate a fairly historically accurate representation of large scale medieval warfare. They've done a pretty damn good job of it. The problem is is that some of the players don't want this. They want back Emain Macha so they can just run around in gank groups all day. Well, that was not their intent for their PvP system. Do you remember when they patched in new ram graphics to make them more historically accurate in appearance? The players bitched up a storm so they changed them.

Sure, their system can use some work, but you also don't have to stand there as a melee and do nothing. In a fort take last week, I was playing my Berserker. I ran the seige ram for a bit and decided I wanted to do something more exciting. I rallied a group of people with me and we ran a path surrounding the fort doing hit and run harassments to defenders who were stupid enough to come outside and we also made a circuit of the fort while doing this so we were able to shut down the supply line as it were and prevent more defenders from getting to the fort.

The new system encourages more strategic play. It's quite fun, but you have to enjoy strategy and probably have to enjoy the slower pace as well. It does take a hell of a lot longer to take forts now. I don't see a problem with it myself because I'll still log off when I am done playing regardless of whether the fort take is complete or not. And really, this mimics deaths on the battlefield. ;) But I digress. As I said, overall they did a good job with making the RvR system true to what they envisioned for it.

[Nebu]

Get rid of buffers and casters and I'd enjoy a strategic simulation grounded in some historical context.  That's not happening.

You do make some very good points though Soukyan about the role of light infantry in disrupting the addition of defense and supply lines.  Use of this would add an interesting dynamic to the game.  Slowing down rvr for strategy is a good idea... slowing down the rate of death would be good as well (not to mention a need to eliminate cc).  Making seiges last hours may or may not be a good idea though it certainly does cater to the hardcore.  

As for the role of melee, I will continue to assert that the role of light infantry is still poised more toward field battles and skirmishes.  I have to admit that I am happy to see a context beyond the emain mentality.  I was initially excited about this expansion eliminating the zerg on zerg conflicts that were the typical rvr experience.  Now, it seems that melee will be relegated to the role of cheap labor and meatshields.  This isn't an unreasonable role, but it's not one that I find very fun.  I enjoy RvR more for the opportunity to participate in PvP.  It's safe to say that Mythic wants to create an RvR experience geared more toward taking real estate than about PvP conflict.

[Sable Blaze]

Although I can applaud Mythic for trying to make RvR more than a cheating gankfest, calling this game historically accurate is just...well, fiction.

I realize this is a "feel" the devs are aiming for, but one look at their armor model just puts this to the lie. It's so far from any historical underpinnings it's laughable. Same for weapon effects. We won't even go into the shield fiasco, I'll just lump it into the armor foolishness. Yeah, it's for balance, but it gripes me every time I see it.

Now that I've got that out of my system, I'll say it almost sounds interesting. I still detest statistical PvP, but admittedly it's almost enough to tempt me to go back to my highlander armswoman on Bedevere.

Almost...

[HRose]

OMFG THIS GAME IS SO GODDAMN SLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!

Play a minstrel, it's one of the best classes.

[HaemishM]

The day I play a fruity fucking bard type with a lute and sparklies that does nothing but whore out mana regen and speed songs, is the day I start wearing granny panties with frilly lace and giving Nix that man-love hugging he so desperately craves.

In other words, no motherfucking way.

[Soukyan]

The day I play a fruity fucking bard type with a lute and sparklies that does nothing but whore out mana regen and speed songs, is the day I start wearing granny panties with frilly lace and giving Nix that man-love hugging he so desperately craves.

In other words, no motherfucking way.

Stealth, stun, shout, mez, charm and weapon spec 4 teh win!

Sparklies are just an added bonus. ;)

[Rasix]

The day I play a fruity fucking bard type with a lute and sparklies that does nothing but whore out mana regen and speed songs, is the day I start wearing granny panties with frilly lace and giving Nix that man-love hugging he so desperately craves.

In other words, no motherfucking way.

Stealth, stun, shout, mez, charm and weapon spec 4 teh win!

Sparklies are just an added bonus. ;)

A fruity bard with stealth capabilities, a longsword on his belt, and a tactical nuke emerging from his lute is still a fruity bard.