The perfect MMO

[Mongoose]

Isn't it strange how this forum in and of itself is the true MMO that none of us can resist? Perhaps this is the perfect MMO...

  Nah no monthly fees, and I cannot buy any in game coin from IGE.

[bhodi]

we didn't drive you away?

/offtopic

[Righ]

I had chopped the article down from 14k to 7k words, so here I will agree that overall the article was "lacking", however there was a simple point that I was trying to make.

Out of interest, what was that point?

[Mongoose]

Oh that guy was as jaded as us, no question. He just hasn't been for two three four five sixish years.

I dunno. I managed to work my way through the whole thing and it read pretty wide-eyed to me. Been around the block, sure; jaded, not so sure.

I'm completely jaded and I still have hope for the future - more than, well, most everyone I know. Why can't those go hand in hand?

  Because if your "hope" for the future happens, then you will be happy.  You cannot be happy and jaded unless you are a sadist, which does not befit how you have presented yourself so far.  Of course if you wanted to send me a pic of your penis with a railroad tie threw it, while you have a smile on your face, then you are a sadist, which would allow you to be jaded and hope for the future :)    

[Mongoose]

I once again offer my services to create the perfect MMO. SOmeone give me 20 million dollars and I will get right on it. I promise to cater to all of the various playstyles!

  Need an employee?  I work for cheap!

[Righ]

You cannot be happy and jaded unless you are a sadist

Yes, you can. You had better look up 'jaded' again ,and understand the context in which it was used.

with a railroad tie threw it

You know what the problem is here, I presume.

[WayAbvPar]

You cannot be happy and jaded unless you are a sadist

Yes, you can. You had better look up 'jaded' again ,and understand the context in which it was used.

with a railroad tie threw it

You know what the problem is here, I presume.

Might wanna look up sadist as well  :-D

[Mongoose]

Dont ya'll diss SWG now.... in the realm of "potential", I have never seen a game with more.

and stuff...

  I quite playing after I spent all my points in the first 2 weeks, and found out there was no concrete direction I could go to start working on a Jedi.  The potential that SWG had was removed when you saw the three letters S-O-E...  SOE is the name I cuss the most,(In MMO development) 3 MMO's with them and all three crapped out.  IMO, SOE has the most horrid customer satisfaction reputation, and that was before the overhaul of SWG, which just made it worse.

[Nebu]

I think the three letters that ruined SWG were H A M, not SOE. 

[Mongoose]

I had chopped the article down from 14k to 7k words, so here I will agree that overall the article was "lacking", however there was a simple point that I was trying to make.

Out of interest, what was that point?

  That the entire MMO industry is failing to evolve, this is not due to lack of money, creativity, or personel, but simply due to the fact that MMO devs have no fken idea what an MMO gamer truly wants.

  P.S. Well did I just waste a huge amount of time as I could have just said this and got my point across, instead of the 7k+ words?

[Nebu]

That the entire MMO industry is failing to evolve, this is not due to lack of money, creativity, or personel, but simply due to the fact that MMO devs have no fken idea what an MMO gamer truly wants.

While I agree that the mmog industry has failed to evolve much, I disagree with your second statement.  Blizzard seems to have found what MANY people want.  They want a fun game experience in a stylized world with a fairly clean and easy-to-use interface.  Blizzard simplified the mmog experience and this streamlining is paying them handsomely.  While I'm not a fan of Blizzard for doing this, they certainly are in touch with the pulse of the mainstream gaming community. Their numbers support this.

[Mongoose]

You cannot be happy and jaded unless you are a sadist

Yes, you can. You had better look up 'jaded' again ,and understand the context in which it was used.

with a railroad tie threw it

You know what the problem is here, I presume.

  Here is the definition of jaded:

 Definition of jaded (adjective)
worn-out; fatigued; tired

Examples of jaded
A person may become jaded if forced to work too many hours.

Definition of jaded
Dictionary.com · Cambridge Dictionaries · Merriam-Webster · Onelook.com · Answers.com

Define jaded
WordNet.com · WordReference.com · Encarta Dictionary · Etymonline.com · Ultralingua.net

  What did I miss?  Of course I guess it is the difference on how you feel when you are jaded.  I cannot be happy or hopeful when jaded.

[Mongoose]

You cannot be happy and jaded unless you are a sadist

Yes, you can. You had better look up 'jaded' again ,and understand the context in which it was used.

with a railroad tie threw it

You know what the problem is here, I presume.

Might wanna look up sadist as well  :-D

Definition of sadism:


sa·dism  (sdzm, sdz-)
n.
1. The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.
2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty.
3. Extreme cruelty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
  I was using sadist as in the second example.

[Righ]

That the entire MMO industry is failing to evolve, this is not due to lack of money, creativity, or personel, but simply due to the fact that MMO devs have no fken idea what an MMO gamer truly wants.

It is certainly failing to evolve in all directions. The focus to date has been on evolving the mechanics and interface so as to assuage the concerns of people who otherwise enjoy prior MMORPGs - in other words, same customers, but simply fixing what appears to be broken. For example - WoW is a step up on many prior games in terms of accessibility, reliability, and efficient use of art assets.

So its not really failing to evolve. It's just evolving slowly, which is... the nature of evolution. You say you want a revolution? Well, you know.

P.S. Well did I just waste a huge amount of time as I could have just said this and got my point across, instead of the 7k+ words?

Pretty much. Its usually best to start with the simple point here, and add refutations to others' counters if necessary.

[HaemishM]

(600k * $15) is a lot, however (6 million * $15) is A LOT more.  I understand the only purpose of creating an MMO is for the profit of the monthly fees, but if you are going to do it, why not go for the most subscribers?  Why piss around with 100k-600k peeps when, with a little creativity and common sense, you can easily have 1-6 million +?  When you constantly aim low, you will constantly miss.(Unless you have a really big gun and cannot hold the damn thing when you fire, like having a 12 year old fire a 12 gauge, LOFL) 

I think WoW should show anyone that a little more creativity and common sense is not what made for 6 million subscribers. In short, the games with creativity have not pulled 6 million subs, mainly because the creativity has not been followed by execution. But to an investor, execution is assumed.

[Righ]

What did I miss?  Of course I guess it is the difference on how you feel when you are jaded.  I cannot be happy or hopeful when jaded.

Mostly that schild inferred that he is jaded about contemporary game development, not the future, or life in general, I suspect.

[Morat20]

What did I miss?  Of course I guess it is the difference on how you feel when you are jaded.  I cannot be happy or hopeful when jaded.

Mostly that schild inferred that he is jaded about contemporary game development, not the future, or life in general, I suspect.

Spore. Spore. Spore. Spore. Spore. Oh god, please, give me some Spore. Actually, I tend to agree with schlid. With the exception of Spore, I can't think of any games I'm just weak-in-the-knees excited over, and I fully realize Spore is probably going to blow chunks, and even if it's good, probably can't even come close to living up to the potential I see in it.

One game I'm excited about. A handful of others that I sort of watch but don't expect to ever play. And I'm a 30 year old, white male gamer with a lot of disposable income and free time. On the other hand, I don't play console games much -- so that could be some of it.

[HaemishM]

On the other hand, I don't play console games much -- so that could be some of it.

Yes. You should be wetting your pants over Red Steel and Zelda on the Wii.

[Soln]

Expectation?  Honestly?  I want to see what Bioware's up to.  And Lum.

[Morat20]

On the other hand, I don't play console games much -- so that could be some of it.

Yes. You should be wetting your pants over Red Steel and Zelda on the Wii.

I'll take your word for it. I found that game where you roll the ball around quite fun. We Love Katamari or something? I play that with my kid a lot. Strangely addictive.

[Mongoose]

That the entire MMO industry is failing to evolve, this is not due to lack of money, creativity, or personel, but simply due to the fact that MMO devs have no fken idea what an MMO gamer truly wants.

While I agree that the mmog industry has failed to evolve much, I disagree with your second statement.  Blizzard seems to have found what MANY people want.  They want a fun game experience in a stylized world with a fairly clean and easy-to-use interface.  Blizzard simplified the mmog experience and this streamlining is paying them handsomely.  While I'm not a fan of Blizzard for doing this, they certainly are in touch with the pulse of the mainstream gaming community. Their numbers support this.

  Well you have to remember that a  lot of WOW players bought the title based upon Blizzards reputation, which I agree is flawless.  The gaming experience is fun,(to 60) and there is enough content to take you from 1-60 without getting too bored.  But the UI is sub-par this is proven by the fact that modders created the popular CTmod as well as a ton of others.(See links)

http://www.wowinterface.com/

http://ui.worldofwar.net/
  
  While I cannot vouch for the sites credibility, it states to the left the number of downloads, which when I saw it was over 9 million, gamers were content with the UI until something better was created, which with WOW, did not take long at all.  Rumor had it that a few of the mods were done by Bliz employees themselves.  I have no bad or harsh feelings toward Bliz, the blame of where the game went, IMO, is on VU.  I don't want a lot of people to misunderstand what I am trying to say, Blizzard from 1-60 has the best MMO on the market, but this stops at 60.(Remember this was supposed to be 70 when it went gold)  Bliz just fails to "keep the ball rolling", VU desperately needed WOW to pad it's financial statements.  VU has the money now and simply does not care, most of the info from what I have read suggests that developers feel that after the first 2-3 years it is time to move on to the next MMO development.(Maybe a sequel?)  What I am trying to say is that with a little creativity and common sense you can easily take a game and propel it far above and beyond what WOW is.  As I used the example in the article, look at the game of chess, after 1000 years it still has replay value, yet it is only 32 pieces on 64 squares, the key is gameplay.  Today, developers concentrate too much on content, this is a critical flaw in their thinking, as the majority of their creativity and resources should be put into gameplay.  Gameplay is the game feature that will grab you by your throat and hold you there, while you try to breath and smile about it.(Definition of sadism again, LOL)

[Nebu]

What I was getting at was the fact that Blizzard created an MMOG that was much more user-friendly than those that had come before it.  They eliminated many of the roadblocks present in older titles and added a dash of style along with some serious brand recognition. 

[Mongoose]

That the entire MMO industry is failing to evolve, this is not due to lack of money, creativity, or personel, but simply due to the fact that MMO devs have no fken idea what an MMO gamer truly wants.

It is certainly failing to evolve in all directions. The focus to date has been on evolving the mechanics and interface so as to assuage the concerns of people who otherwise enjoy prior MMORPGs - in other words, same customers, but simply fixing what appears to be broken. For example - WoW is a step up on many prior games in terms of accessibility, reliability, and efficient use of art assets.

So its not really failing to evolve. It's just evolving slowly, which is... the nature of evolution. You say you want a revolution? Well, you know.

P.S. Well did I just waste a huge amount of time as I could have just said this and got my point across, instead of the 7k+ words?

Pretty much. Its usually best to start with the simple point here, and add refutations to others' counters if necessary.

O.K.  Then we are basically on the same page.  Will you then agree that, with the money that can be made, the talent that is availible, and the modern technology that is here, that the MMO industry is evolving in a retarded manner.(Retarded seems so much better to use here then "slow")

[Yoru]

Will you then agree that, with the money that can be made, the talent that is availible, and the modern technology that is here, that the MMO industry is evolving in a retarded manner.(Retarded seems so much better to use here then "slow")

Unless you're trying to have an actual conversation, at which point tossing in pejoratives tends to cause people to react poorly to whatever point you're making, regardless of its validity.

I'll get to your larger post later; don't have the time to spend an hour writing now.

Edit: spelng r hard.

[Signe]

That the entire MMO industry is failing to evolve, this is not due to lack of money, creativity, or personel, but simply due to the fact that MMO devs have no fken idea what an MMO gamer truly wants.

It is certainly failing to evolve in all directions. The focus to date has been on evolving the mechanics and interface so as to assuage the concerns of people who otherwise enjoy prior MMORPGs - in other words, same customers, but simply fixing what appears to be broken. For example - WoW is a step up on many prior games in terms of accessibility, reliability, and efficient use of art assets.

So its not really failing to evolve. It's just evolving slowly, which is... the nature of evolution. You say you want a revolution? Well, you know.

P.S. Well did I just waste a huge amount of time as I could have just said this and got my point across, instead of the 7k+ words?

Pretty much. Its usually best to start with the simple point here, and add refutations to others' counters if necessary.

O.K.  Then we are basically on the same page.  Will you then agree that, with the money that can be made, the talent that is availible, and the modern technology that is here, that the MMO industry is evolving in a retarded manner.(Retarded seems so much better to use here then "slow")

Redundant is a better fit, I think.  And Congrats on making it through the first hazing bit of f13.  Once you mate with Schild, you get the rest of the forums.

[Mongoose]

Will you then agree that, with the money that can be made, the talent that is availible, and the modern technology that is here, that the MMO industry is evolving in a retarded manner.(Retarded seems so much better to use here then "slow")

Unless you're trying to have an actual conversation, at which point tossing in pejoratives tends to cause people to react poorly to whatever point you're making, regardless of its validity.

I'll get to your larger post later; don't have the time to spend an hour writing now.

Edit: spelng r hard.

  "Retarded" was used out of frustration, and was simply intended to emphasize the meaning of "slow".  It was not meant to belittle or rebuke the reader, only by expressing how you truly feel can you convey to the reader your exact expression.  Sometimes I tend to be an extremist, no harm is meant.  :)

[Mongoose]

That the entire MMO industry is failing to evolve, this is not due to lack of money, creativity, or personel, but simply due to the fact that MMO devs have no fken idea what an MMO gamer truly wants.

It is certainly failing to evolve in all directions. The focus to date has been on evolving the mechanics and interface so as to assuage the concerns of people who otherwise enjoy prior MMORPGs - in other words, same customers, but simply fixing what appears to be broken. For example - WoW is a step up on many prior games in terms of accessibility, reliability, and efficient use of art assets.

So its not really failing to evolve. It's just evolving slowly, which is... the nature of evolution. You say you want a revolution? Well, you know.

P.S. Well did I just waste a huge amount of time as I could have just said this and got my point across, instead of the 7k+ words?

Pretty much. Its usually best to start with the simple point here, and add refutations to others' counters if necessary.

O.K.  Then we are basically on the same page.  Will you then agree that, with the money that can be made, the talent that is availible, and the modern technology that is here, that the MMO industry is evolving in a retarded manner.(Retarded seems so much better to use here then "slow")

Redundant is a better fit, I think.  And Congrats on making it through the first hazing bit of f13.  Once you mate with Schild, you get the rest of the forums.

  Do I get to play the male?  It is always better to give then to recieve...

[Mongoose]

Oh, right, my bad. Where you write has no effect on your reputation.

  You are correct, where I write does not, however what I write does.

You cannot aspire to be Tolstoy and write for the Weekly World News. Yes, where you write matters.

  So you firmly believe that if I had never written for MPS, but instead I had written for F13 since the first day of its conception, what I write would have different meaning?  Although I understand the point you both are trying to make, only a shallow person would judge text on where it was wrote, instead of what the text actually conveyed.  Would it have you extract a different meaning from the text if I was offered a position with Blizzard,(Which I refused) or had an email correspondence with Sebastian Motte about being a tester for Microsoft?  Let us not concentrate on who is better or more experienced then everyone else, but concentrate on what we all want, BETTER GAMES.  You got to be kidding me if you think I would rather be here then playing Jagged Union,(Not released in the U.S. yet) Jagged Alliance 3,(WTF is stratgey First doing with this?) or another round of Civ4.(Don't be afraid to go nuke happy, it does look cool and global warming effects everyone randomly)  I am not playing another round of Civ4 now because I am in a towel trying to answer these comments before getting a shower and having supper, and since the wife just left and took the kids to the pool, I need to order pizza or go to Subway, which brings us to the point...

  We are all here for the same reason, we want to play a better game!

[Nebu]

Try to imagine, if you will, that some writers do so with an agenda.  This may open your mind to the idea that I perceive Schild is trying to convey.  If I read in Science that an alien life form had been discovered, I would take it with much more seriousness than if I had read the EXACT SAME REPORT in the Enquirer.  Get it?

[schild]

I'm staying out of this, it's gotten too weird for me.

[Nebu]

I'm staying out of this, it's gotten too weird for me.

I thought I was helping!

[schild]

I actually started replying before I read your post.

[WayAbvPar]

You cannot be happy and jaded unless you are a sadist

Yes, you can. You had better look up 'jaded' again ,and understand the context in which it was used.

with a railroad tie threw it

You know what the problem is here, I presume.

Might wanna look up sadist as well  :-D

Definition of sadism:


sa·dism  (sdzm, sdz-)
n.
1. The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.
2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty.
3. Extreme cruelty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
  I was using sadist as in the second example.

Not to be completely pedantic (well, maybe just this once), but sadism is about the infliction of abuse or cruelty; masochist would have fit your original post better (as I read it).

[Mongoose]

Try to imagine, if you will, that some writers do so with an agenda.  This may open your mind to the idea that I perceive Schild is trying to convey.  If I read in Science that an alien life form had been discovered, I would take it with much more seriousness than if I had read the EXACT SAME REPORT in the Enquirer.  Get it?

     Yeah but that is biased because we all know the Enquirer is full of BS, and you were taking something that is widely not believed(Aliens) vs. something that is widly believed MMO evolution is "slow".  I know that MPS had a bad rep in the past,(That is what I hear anyway) but I just do not see it in the site.  Anyway I will not argue this point further as I do not see us changing eithers mind.  If you want to view the words I right as being tainted, that in no way effects me, I am not here to win a popularity contest :)  As I said I understand what you are trying to say I simply disagree and I can guarantee you that you will not change my mind, and I doubt that I will change yours, therefore we must agree to disagree :)

[Mongoose]

I'm staying out of this, it's gotten too weird for me.

  LOL, the only voice that is not heard, is the one that remains silent.  If you have something to say, then say it, is that not the purpose of your website?  I think you gave up too easy to be cynical... Use the force luke.. er I mean "Vader".